3036 replies to this topic

[EXSODER]

Kraven Kor, on 02 January 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:

No, it hasn't - I prefer the way games play out now, for the most part, but ECM being a "necessity" is a problem.

Actually, this is the way I wish I would have thought of saying it!
A complete game breaker would be something that made EVERYTHING completely useless, to the point where the title had absolutely no redeeming qualities whatsoever. ECM isn't THAT bad. However...
I take out my Catapult, and the LRMs are almost always useless, so I have to wait until the enemy gets up close. I might get a couple kills and do some damage, but I still earn very little XP or C-Bills - and on top of that, I die!
Then I take out my Jenner, and by the end of the match, I've made at least 1,000 XP and an acceptable (but nowhere near ideal) amount of C-Bills, and I'm almost always the first or second highest player on my team in terms of damage done.
I've heard a few people here say that light, fast 'Mechs are the only ones that are really viable anymore, and I partially agree in that they're the only viable money makers for pilots of at least average skill. I attribute my Stalker's terrible XP and cash flow to my radical loadouts for it (which is the case with most of my 'Mechs), but the only 'Mechs that seem to pull in the spoils to an at least acceptable degree are hit-and-run types.
Let's not get into Conquest, which I do have an opinion on: you need Germanium, Inner Sphere? Looks like you won't be getting much at all, because 85% of the time, the combatants wind up killing each other before any substantial amount is harvested!
I once ran through a match in a Jenner and hit each member of the enemy team at least once, then focused on just one. I didn't do much damage to the target before I was destroyed, but at the end - apparently because I even grazed each enemy - I was rewarded handsomely.
Our team got slaughtered, by the way.
So this, then, is one of the few ways to make acceptable income with the new rewards system?
So, in essence, ECM being a necessity, as you said, is the problem here.

Edited by EXSODER, 02 January 2013 - 03:24 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

EXSODER, on 02 January 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

Actually, this is the way I wish I would have thought of saying it!
A complete game breaker would be something that made EVERYTHING completely useless, to the point where the title had absolutely no redeeming qualities whatsoever. ECM isn't THAT bad. However...
I take out my Catapult, and the LRMs are almost always useless, so I have to wait until the enemy gets up close. I might get a couple kills and do some damage, but I still earn very little XP or C-Bills - and on top of that, I die!
Then I take out my Jenner, and by the end of the match, I've made at least 1,000 XP and an acceptable (but nowhere near ideal) amount of C-Bills, and I'm almost always the first or second highest player on my team in terms of damage done.
I've heard a few people here say that light, fast 'Mechs are the only ones that are really viable anymore, and I partially agree. I attribute my Stalker's terrible XP and cash flow to my radical loadouts for it (which is the case with most of my 'Mechs), but the only 'Mechs that seem to pull in the spoils to an at least acceptable degree are hit-and-run types.
Let's not get into Conquest, which I do have an opinion on: you need Germanium, Inner Sphere? Looks like you won't be getting much at all, because 85% of the time, the combatants wind up killing each other before any substantial amount is harvested!
I once ran through a match in a Jenner and hit each member of the enemy team at least once, then focused on just one. I didn't do much damage to the target before I was destroyed, but at the end - apparently because I even grazed each enemy - I was rewarded handsomely.
Our team got slaughtered, by the way.
So this, then, is one of the few ways to make acceptable income with the new rewards system?
So, in essence, ECM being a necessity, as you said, is the problem here.

Put a TAG on your boat, or stick to people who have them.

I have to find cover when you shoot your missiles at me, but you can't be bothered to do anything? You just want the aut-aim, and almost 2x damage of your tube count? Yeah, no.

Not anymore.

[EXSODER]

Vassago Rain, on 02 January 2013 - 03:24 PM, said:

Put a TAG on your boat, or stick to people who have them.

I have to find cover when you shoot your missiles at me, but you can't be bothered to do anything? You just want the aut-aim, and almost 2x damage of your tube count? Yeah, no.

Not anymore.

Actually, I know how you feel about that, and I'm glad Artemis requires line of sight and that I need scouts to spot for me. I must also say that I rarely get to launch more than one volley before ECM kills my lock.
No, I'm not complaining. I just wish my Catapult was more viable to the team now and made more spoils, because as it is, I feel almost useless in it when the other team has ECM (or worse, two or three ECM!).
When I'm in my Catapult, I have to really actually try and think my way through to get anything done, and that's fine - but I barely get rewarded for it.
When I'm in my Jenner, I'm actually very lazily running around and hitting whatever enemy I happen to pass, and letting the team know not to walk into an ambush, steering with my feet and my hands behind my head - and I get rewarded supremely!
It just doesn't feel right, is all.

Edited by EXSODER, 02 January 2013 - 03:31 PM.

[Prat]

ECM needs to change:

Either split the multiple effect into multiple units to take away the ability to have all benefits.

or

Have On/Off rather than Disrupt/Counter - While under the ECM Effect, disallow your own lock on weapons.

That brings a bit more strategy to the table and does away with the ******** StreakMandos and StreakRavens. Right now we're back to the Streak cats except much faster. There is currently no light mech that can stand up to the two ECM variants.

ECM on the DDC I have 0 issues with since you can actually properly tag it given the speed.

[Vodrin Thales]

Sethalos, on 02 January 2013 - 02:24 PM, said:

The inability to locate, target, and hit enemy Mech's is ridiculously overpowered. To the point that if you enter a match and your team has no ECM you might as well just log out because you don't stand a chance.

.

Look if you want to say ECM is a bit too strong in it's current incarnation and gives too large an advantage for those that use it I will agree. But the above statement is complete hyperbole and not even close to true. I was running a four man with no ECM last night and we won 5 straight matches in which the opposing team had ECM and we did not. We had to play real smart and make darn sure we were never caught in the open by their missile mechs, but not having ECM did not mean we did not stand a chance, it just meant we had to be a little better than the opposition.

[MajorLeeHung]

Kaijin, on 02 January 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

I'm not interested in Hawken. I've seen the game-play videos. I've not downloaded it. I don't play FPSs. I am here because I am a Battletech/Mechwarrior fan. MWO was fun for me, if buggy before ECM. It is boring for me now, with ECM, as implemented.

Its funny I downloaded Hawken and played it for 2 days cus I was tired of MWO. EVERYTHING about Hawken is better then MWO EXCEPT game play... which is where it counts. Better lobby, interface, and match makeing. And all done with less money and time in development then MWO... come on now PGI...Seriously?

[Codejack]

MajorLeeHung, on 02 January 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

Its funny I downloaded Hawken and played it for 2 days cus I was tired of MWO. EVERYTHING about Hawken is better then MWO EXCEPT game play... which is where it counts. Better lobby, interface, and match makeing. And all done with less money and time in development then MWO... come on now PGI...Seriously?

Ditto.

[Corvus Antaka]

MajorLeeHung, on 02 January 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

Its funny I downloaded Hawken and played it for 2 days cus I was tired of MWO. EVERYTHING about Hawken is better then MWO EXCEPT game play... which is where it counts. Better lobby, interface, and match makeing. And all done with less money and time in development then MWO... come on now PGI...Seriously?

Yup.

[EXSODER]

MajorLeeHung, on 02 January 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

Its funny I downloaded Hawken and played it for 2 days cus I was tired of MWO. EVERYTHING about Hawken is better then MWO EXCEPT game play... which is where it counts. Better lobby, interface, and match makeing. And all done with less money and time in development then MWO... come on now PGI...Seriously?

Actually, there are strengths that both titles have (although I prefer MWO in the end).
But when I played HAWKEN, I felt like I was cheating on MWO, and with how steep the learning curve is for controls and gameplay, I was finding myself pretty sure that this would just be a 'one time thing'.

But then, something said into my ear, "EXSODER! Is that - are you...shame on you, you're having...fun, aren't you!?"
"No," I thought to myself. "Fun, but not nearly as much as MWO! This game has a ton of things I can't stand! Honest!"
"But it doesn't have constant balance issues and countless technical problems! It has consistently working sound and it's...it's...pretty! And it has..."
"W-what?"
"No..."
"..."
"ECM! Even though you...don't really...care about that...!"

Of course, though, HAWKEN doesn't suit my style at all...I don't believe at all that I'm in a big armored fighting vehicle. Although the aesthetic is lovely, it feels like I'm driving a fiberglass mockup that falls apart when hit by so much as a gale force wind. Additionally, the smoothness is terrible - Mechs appear to be turning in octagons and not circles...death after death after death!

PGI! Give us an ECCM module to supplement the Beagle or something, and borrow from Hawken's interface and garage!
...and stuff!

[G4M3R]

Hawken is a horrible game. Even worse as a FPS. (Coming from a competitive Doom, and UT vet here.)

MWO in comparison is a far more refined game. Not perfect. But I could only stand to play Hawken for about 5 mins.

[MajorLeeHung]

G4M3R, on 02 January 2013 - 04:22 PM, said:

Hawken is a horrible game. Even worse as a FPS. (Coming from a competitive Doom, and UT vet here.)

MWO in comparison is a far more refined game. Not perfect. But I could only stand to play Hawken for about 5 mins.

Were not contesting that gamer I was just saying Hawken got a LOT more right in a much shorter time with MUCH less cash flow. And I did state in my post that MWO game play has Hawken beat to ****. =D

[EXSODER]

G4M3R, on 02 January 2013 - 04:22 PM, said:

Hawken is a horrible game. Even worse as a FPS. (Coming from a competitive Doom, and UT vet here.)

MWO in comparison is a far more refined game. Not perfect. But I could only stand to play Hawken for about 5 mins.

One strength I think HAWKEN had is that you can customize some things I haven't seen in MW before - cockpit interface color, cockpit lag amount (you can literally choose how realistic your cockpit is in terms of how long it takes for it to traverse and follow the crosshair as you move it), and cockpit shake amount (bouncing as you walk).
The one thing I hate is that I can't hear my engine and I can't feel my footfalls in HAWKEN. I don't know that I'm in a sizeable armored fighting vehicle; it only feels like I'm seeing a static cockpit interior image plastered on the screen with one animated spot for the fuel gauge.
MWO is about as realistic as you can get for what it asks you to immerse yourself into.

[WolvesX]

Ngamok, on 02 January 2013 - 08:35 AM, said:

ECM is only OP for PuGs. For 8 vs. 8 it brings strategy because you have to counter it and use TAG for any LRMs your team has. And trust me, it's easy to kill Ravens and Commandos even with their netlag with heavier mechs, especially since I am trying to fill the Master boxes of 2 of my Catapults. Dual AC/20s to the legs, see ya. Then it's Hunchbacks. I am sure other pilots that can lead can hit them as well.

Sure....

Me and my mates are playing 8v8.

an ECM does count!

[Apoc1138]

People keep throwing up hawken as an example of a game with less bugs and balance issues, yet their forums (having been wiped recently on open beta) actually have a higher rate of bug and balance qq threads than this one

[Kraven Kor]

Apoc1138, on 02 January 2013 - 04:55 PM, said:

People keep throwing up hawken as an example of a game with less bugs and balance issues, yet their forums (having been wiped recently on open beta) actually have a higher rate of bug and balance qq threads than this one

All of this has happened before.

All of this shall happen again.

Go to any game forum, particularly at the closed beta to open beta transition, and the open beta to launch transition, and you will see the same threads:

"X Feature is RUINING THE GAME."
"Y Feature is RUINING THE GAME."
"Nobody will play this game, unless you implement MY IDEA."
"Game will FAIL because of #feature I don't like."
"Less players now than in #previousphase?"
Edit: Forgot "Game will fail because #othergame is releasing and is better."

I'm betting someone could write a Psyhological Thesis on this phenomenon and earn their doctorate.

Edited by Kraven Kor, 02 January 2013 - 05:04 PM.

[slayerkdm]

Ya, I think Im done for a while. ECM lights are just sucking the fun out of the game I think. Its just who has the most ECM's, and if you are pugging, its just a crap shoot. I think aside from ECM lights, the game is fun, but there is no counter to fast ravens now, atleast for me.

Pity too, because until the last couple days, where there seems to be an even bigger explosion of them, I thought the game was in the best state so far. Even as dumb as I am, when I look around and see no ECM's on my team, I know its over. You cant depend on the Atlas ECM either, if the other team finds him, and just circle jerk him to death with lights.

[GuardDogg]

I have no problems with ECM. No problems even when others use it. Nadda...Get used to it. May as well tell those today using Radar Jammers in real life it is just wrong.

Edited by VeeDog, 02 January 2013 - 05:53 PM.

[Felix]

VeeDog, on 02 January 2013 - 05:52 PM, said:

I have no problems with ECM. No problems even when others use it. Nadda...Get used to it. May as well tell those today using Radar Jammers in real life it is just wrong.

By that logic we should also remove anyones mech whenever it is blown up, oh and you are headshot? Well **** YOU your character dies, all your experiance gone, all your mechs gone, all your cbills gone, start over with trial mechs scrub.

[GuardDogg]

Felix, on 02 January 2013 - 05:57 PM, said:

By that logic we should also remove anyones mech whenever it is blown up, oh and you are headshot? Well **** YOU your character dies, all your experiance gone, all your mechs gone, all your cbills gone, start over with trial mechs scrub.

By reading, you sound like you have issues. Be nice.

[Rhent]

Yes ECM did ruin the game. Get a brawler and PUG or get your ECM rig for 8 mans. Its unlikely that ECM is going to change anytime in the near or even far future.