3036 replies to this topic

[Galathon Redd]

superteds, on 28 December 2012 - 04:52 AM, said:

this is a new and interesting topic, thank you for creating this thread.

Ooh, looks like it's time once again...


Brace yourself...


Wait for it...


AND---------------------

[WolvesX]

Thuzel, on 20 February 2013 - 10:38 AM, said:

[/size]


Good points, and that's been put forth a couple of times.

It's not so much that people don't want ECM, it's that the current version is much too powerful for it's weight.Just balance it against AMS, for example:

AMS:
Con - 1.5 tons
Con - ammo limited
Pro - negates 1 to 5 missiles

ECM:
Con - 1.5 tons
Con - Counter-ECM and PPC limited
Pro - negates all missiles but SRM
Pro - provides stealth and anti-locking ability to carrying mech
Pro - provides stealth and anti-locking ability to all friendly mechs nearby
Pro - Breaks all forms of missile assistance within 180m (Narc, Tag, and Artemis)

There's a massive balance problem there.

got it right there.

[Salient]

I agree with the OP, they really need to take ECM off the Atlas. Then i think everything would be fine. Perhaps even give beagle more of a counter ECM role.

[WolvesX]

Salient, on 20 February 2013 - 02:05 PM, said:

I agree with the OP, they really need to take ECM off the Atlas. Then i think everything would be fine. Perhaps even give beagle more of a counter ECM role.

BAP woudl be a great counter!

[WolvesX]

Teralitha, on 20 February 2013 - 12:21 PM, said:

ECM is bad for the game, nearly equally bad as going open beta too early was bad for the game... like not having a good new player experience was bad for the game.... Maybe these devs are hardcore gamers... but being hardcore, means your also hard headed, and egotistic in general. From what I have seen here in MWO, they dont seem to have a good sense for balance or things that are simply... good/bad for the health of the game. Will they make money? Most likely, there is a never ending supply of suckers to give them never ending income, Enough to keep the game alive certainly... at least awhile. But eventually enough bad press would mount against them they would have to start listening someday, or be forever tainted in the eyes of the general gaming populous.

true!

[Gremlich Johns]

StalaggtIKE, on 20 February 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

This is a mute point, unless there are plans to buff everything to ridiculous levels. Either that or, ton for ton, ECM would still be superior to all comparable things.

The term is not "mute", it is "moot"

regardless, I agree with your point...

[Phobos12]

Support!

[Corvus Antaka]

The real problem now is light mech & ECM stacking. Aside from the ECM variants there are very few lights out there anymore.

If NARC was an ECM counter and BAP gave us a 600m radar blip despite how many ECM the enemy grabbed, the ECM would still be useful, still cause havoc inside 180 meters, and yet bring us back to being able to actually scout and flank for our friends.

Of course, with the new warning targetted this is kinda gimped now too, but still it would be a lot more viable than it is now.

Tough to say. ECM has been good to the game in many ways, boating esp LRM/SSRM is much reduced, but still it feels too powerful, especially when 3-4 occur, or when the enemy has 0 ECM to counter. This alone shows a big imbalance, and if no ECM matching is going to occur then either we need to resign ourselves to only using ECM variants, or that in the future we will get more counters that no longer make it a necessity to really be competitive.

[WolvesX]

Proof added:

ECM is OP

[StalaggtIKE]

Gremlich Johns, on 20 February 2013 - 03:36 PM, said:

The term is not "mute", it is "moot"

regardless, I agree with your point...

Thanks. Heh, that really changed the meaning of my statement.

WolvesX, on 20 February 2013 - 04:29 PM, said:

Proof added:

ECM is OP

LOL.

[WolvesX]

StalaggtIKE, on 20 February 2013 - 08:20 PM, said:

Thanks. Heh, that really changed the meaning of my statement.


LOL.

Terrible, isn't it?

[INAPPROPRIATE NAME 0001]

WolvesX, on 21 February 2013 - 02:21 AM, said:

Terrible, isn't it?

Your fourman struggling to beat pubs isn't actual proof though bro

[Shadowsword8]

Vassago Rain, on 20 February 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:

I see. Obvously, all those people weren't being emotional they could no longer boat lurms for superfast farming, yes? Did someone conduct a real survey for this most ultimate and broken of equipment pieces? Do we know why people think 'it's not fun?'

Did you get a study group of some 2000 actual people together, so you could gauge their reactions and actual thoughts, both when isolated from the other subjects, and when herded together?

No?

Then your poll's meaningless.

Just because you don't like the result, you claim the opinions of hundreds of others is irrelevant? That's utter BS. I'll grant you that statistical accuracy would be better with a bigger sample, but 500+ is already enough to be representative of the whole, and when results are that much in favor or nerfing ECM, no amount of statistic deviance is going to alter the conclusion. Most players want ECM nerfed, period.

I have practiced MMOs for 12 years now, and I have seen many, many cries for nerfing something. But I have also experienced enough to see a pattern, one that always come true: When the cries for nerf focus on one specific subject, and do so for a consistent time period, they are justified. If you want to contest that, bring it on with past examples. I have plenty of ammos to throw back at you.

Quote

You don't like it, because you can't boat the lurms on your own? Then play something else, or send QQ to Paul over email. I'm starting to think he feeds on golden tears about as much as I myself do.

Trolling aside, How about you come up with real arguments in defense of ECM? Because right now, I'd rate your arguing skills as really lousy. lots of rhetorics, but no arguments or anything concrete.

Edited by Shadowsword8, 21 February 2013 - 04:25 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

Shadowsword8, on 21 February 2013 - 04:23 AM, said:

Just because you don't like the result, you claim the opinions of hundreds of others is irrelevant? That's utter BS. I'll grant you that statistical accuracy would be better with a bigger sample, but 500+ is already enough to be representative of the whole, and when results are that much in favor or nerfing ECM, no amount of statistic deviance is going to alter the conclusion. Most players want ECM nerfed, period.

I have practiced MMOs for 12 years now, and I have seen many, many cries for nerfing something. But I have also experienced enough to see a pattern, one that always come true: When the cries for nerf focus on one specific subject, and do so for a consistent time period, they are justified. If you want to contest that, bring it on with past examples. I have plenty of ammos to throw back at you.



Trolling aside, How about you come up with real arguments in defense of ECM? Because right now, I'd rate your arguing skills as really lousy. lots of rhetorics, but no arguments or anything concrete.

About 500 people visit these forums. ABout 200 will vote on polls, if the polls are relevant.
When an issue is actually an issue, you don't get 500 people. You don't get 1000 people. You get threads that have more hits than all the stickies combined. You get people all over, who've never posted before, voicing their concerns.

Like when we worked to get rid of RnR.

I can't take you whiners seriously, especially now that I don't have to ever play against you.

[Tekyio Wolf]

Vassago Rain, on 21 February 2013 - 04:30 AM, said:

About 500 people visit these forums. ABout 200 will vote on polls, if the polls are relevant.
When an issue is actually an issue, you don't get 500 people. You don't get 1000 people. You get threads that have more hits than all the stickies combined. You get people all over, who've never posted before, voicing their concerns.

Like when we worked to get rid of RnR.

I can't take you whiners seriously, especially now that I don't have to ever play against you.

I don't see why the vote of tousands of people AGAINST ECM should not count...

[Shadowsword8]

Vassago Rain, on 21 February 2013 - 04:30 AM, said:

About 500 people visit these forums. ABout 200 will vote on polls, if the polls are relevant.
When an issue is actually an issue, you don't get 500 people. You don't get 1000 people. You get threads that have more hits than all the stickies combined. You get people all over, who've never posted before, voicing their concerns.

Like when we worked to get rid of RnR.

Again, rethorics and no arguments or concrete elements. I won't bother with you anymore, it's a waste of my time.

Quote

I can't take you whiners seriously, especially now that I don't have to ever play against you.

You must have some ego issues if you think anyone who doesn't like the current ECM is a bad player.

[Wolf Clearwater]

The problem is not ECM on its own, its ECM + SSRM, mostly on light mechs (since Cicada has no missiles, and on Atlas is a huge reduction in firepower). In one of the other ECM threads Garth said they are aware of the ECM/SSRM problem and are looking into it. It will take time, and as has been stated throughout this thread - remember streak cats? -remember ridiculous missile rain where you couldn't walk 100m from base before dying? (exaggeration). Is it still a ridiculously OP combo? Yeah, but PPC's are a help (not a huge one). It will get straightened out soon I hope.

[Tekyio Wolf]

Wolf87535, on 21 February 2013 - 05:45 AM, said:

The problem is not ECM on its own, its ECM + SSRM, mostly on light mechs (since Cicada has no missiles, and on Atlas is a huge reduction in firepower). In one of the other ECM threads Garth said they are aware of the ECM/SSRM problem and are looking into it. It will take time, and as has been stated throughout this thread - remember streak cats? -remember ridiculous missile rain where you couldn't walk 100m from base before dying? (exaggeration). Is it still a ridiculously OP combo? Yeah, but PPC's are a help (not a huge one). It will get straightened out soon I hope.

Its not just the SSRM + ECM combo.

ECM is near to ZERO skill to use and its hard to counter. That is the problem.

[Lootee]

There's no point debating with fanboys and asskissers. No amount of polling, data, logic or facts will sway their opinion.

Keep in mind these are the same geniuses that claimed gauss rifles were perfectly fine l2p. While by PGI's own admission it was broken. Not only game balance broken but dysfunctional code not working as intended broken.

It was a weapon that did extreme damage at extreme long range, generated no heat, had no minimum range, and neither ammunition or weapon could explode. It had 0 drawbacks, was broken code, and by far the best weapon in the game in that state. Yet the same batch of sycophants all said it was fine.

Talk with your wallets. Dwindling purchases and fewer logged in players is the only language PGI understands.

Edited by PanchoTortilla, 21 February 2013 - 08:14 AM.

[Tekyio Wolf]

PanchoTortilla, on 21 February 2013 - 08:08 AM, said:

There's no point debating with fanboys and asskissers. No amount of polling, data, logic or facts will sway their opinion.

Keep in mind these are the same geniuses that claimed gauss rifles were perfectly fine l2p. While by PGI's own admission it was broken. Not only game balance broken but dysfunctional code not working as intended broken.

It was a weapon that did extreme damage at extreme long range, generated no heat, had no minimum range, and neither ammunition or weapon could explode. It had 0 drawbacks, was broken code, and by far the best weapon in the game in that state. Yet the same batch of sycophants all said it was fine.

Talk with your wallets. Dwindling purchases and fewer logged in players is the only language PGI understands.

I think PGI simply does not fully understand the true impact on this game. Specially with MM3 and no weight balance.

They did a good job so far, no one is not allowed me make strange things.