288 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Kobold, on 06 December 2012 - 10:57 PM, said:

I can't speak for other groups, just for my own.

Firepower Unlimited, LLC has a very small membership roll right now (side note: we're hiring! Find us on NGNG TS3!), so except on our busiest nights of the week, we rarely have enough FU members on for a full group of 8. We often have to fill out with friends in other corps, and a couple lone wolves that have started playing with us regularly. The rest of the time we play in groups of 3 of 4 because we still enjoy playing the game more when you have someone to BS with while you play.

I would love to be able to BS with the rest of my PUG teammates as well, but the VOIP integration (if you even deign to call it that) is pretty terribad right now.

gotta admit, always liked the slogan on your siggy...... you still drop with Onyx rain? I seem to remember at least some of you guys dropped with RRR, though like us (S1LT), seemed to have a bit of a schism or sumthin. (long boring story in our case)

Alexandrix, on 06 December 2012 - 10:59 PM, said:

How's that demeaning others to protect your ego working out for you?
Just because someone is better than you at something doesn't mean they are lonely,basement dwelling virgins.I mean,some are,i'm sure,just not all.
But you go ahead and keep telling yourself whatever you have to,to make yourself feel better about losing

the day you beat me I will let you know. But you know.. taking offense to a stereotype usually means it cut too close to home?


(Well, at least I HOPE it didn't. Maybe my sense of humor doesn't translate well to forum speak.... tho.. naw... most insane gamers I know actually do still live with mom........ )

[Streeter]

ferranis, on 06 December 2012 - 10:57 PM, said:

I find it entertaining that the exact same people who inflict imbalance by dropping against pugs.. cry about imbalance in 8vs8.

this is a really good point and shows that the majority of people only care when the imbalance is against them... then again thats hardly surprising.

still to give them their due, combo of ECM and no drop weight has made 8v8 kind of boring. It really limits what you can play with which means the games do get boring/repetitive real fast.

[Alexandrix]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 December 2012 - 11:03 PM, said:

the day you beat me I will let you know. But you know.. taking offense to a stereotype usually means it cut too close to home?


(Well, at least I HOPE it didn't. Maybe my sense of humor doesn't translate well to forum speak.... tho.. naw... most insane gamers I know actually do still live with mom........ )

Nah,i didn't take offense at the actual statement.Or mean any.I just hate it when people lose and then claim it must be because the other person lives with mom and has nothing better going on in their lives than playing computer games all day.It's like they can't handle losing at a computer game so they have to make up an excuse,and then make themselves feel better by saying "well at least i get laid!!".I'm 30 years old,with a kid,a wife,and a mortgage.I really don't care if you,or anyone else on here does..or does not...get laid.

I'm here to shoot big stompy robots.Let's keep it on topic,eh?

[Kobold]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 December 2012 - 11:03 PM, said:

gotta admit, always liked the slogan on your siggy...... you still drop with Onyx rain? I seem to remember at least some of you guys dropped with RRR, though like us (S1LT), seemed to have a bit of a schism or sumthin. (long boring story in our case)

A bunch of us still hang out (we can't seem to get Khobai to go away). Many of us started off with RRR, but our split off was more based on general philosophical differences, not any real animus.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Riffleman, on 06 December 2012 - 09:14 PM, said:

Really? You gave 8 man games a try for 3 whole days? This is becoming a trend as its at least 6 recognizable teams I have seen today alone. One of the groups was on my team, I asked them what happened, is the dream dead already? They said 8v8 is total bs right now, nothing running but cheeze builds.

Is it really so bad you just arent having fun in 8 man teams now? What needs to change, I imagine actual tonnage matching would help. Whats so bad about it though?

Actually, yes, it is that bad.

See there's no limitation on 8v8 drops. you can bring whatever you want to the party. That means people are running a majority of 1 type of mech, and a couple of something else... so like, a team of 5 atlas' and 3 jenners...

Because people can't seem to actually limit what they take on their own, PGI has to limit it for them.

the Ideal would be to limit drops to 2 of each weightclass... this way we know that there has to be 2 of each thing, and NO team out there will be running heavy on a specific type of mech.

Tonage limit's are an option, but I remember the days of MW4 where people would drop in an Atlas that wasn't fully outfitted but fully armored [figure 4 medium lasers and full armor as an example] to get around tonnages, thus allowing an assault class mech being taken at say, 50 tons total weight since it's not using up the full 100...

Atleast with a limit like 2 of each weightclass, there's some customizing ability, and it's lore friendly.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

ferranis, on 06 December 2012 - 10:57 PM, said:

I find it entertaining that the exact same people who inflict imbalance by dropping against pugs.. cry about imbalance in 8vs8.

atleast in premade vs pug, you still had a chance when it came to what was being brought to the party.

If I choose in an 8v8 premade to run a medium, I'm instantly putting my team at a disadvantage.

This is a HUGE issue. and why many "premade" teams were yelling at PGI asking "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot! No tonnage balance? No limiting of chassis types?!"

Unlimited gametypes are always imbalanced. It's why MW4:Mercs is "bring Assaults or Heavy's to the party, nothing else need apply."

[Wormrex]

Well that basically means more premades in the PUG cesspool. Which basically means they are at the PUG level, thus should shush about being superior, because it is pretty obvious they are not.

But hey, I always say, if playing games seize to be fun, it is no longer a game. We all play games to have fun don't we? Isn't that the first thing a game is about? Fun?

Well all we can do is endure it, until the dev finish up their codings and updates, so far they haven't really missed a schedule yet have they? So it'll come, netcode fix, ingame VOIP, collision(please please pretty please) , better match making, one can only hope.

[Sean von Steinike]

ferranis, on 06 December 2012 - 10:57 PM, said:

I find it entertaining that the exact same people who inflict imbalance by dropping against pugs.. cry about imbalance in 8vs8.

Oh, didn't you know? It was stupid PUG...L2P pug idiots, get a team you stupid Puggers. Now the 8 mans whining are the idiots it seems.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Wormrex, on 06 December 2012 - 11:44 PM, said:

Well all we can do is endure it, until the dev finish up their codings and updates, so far they haven't really missed a schedule yet have they?

You're new arn't you?

Several things have been pushed back by MONTHS!

We should be... right now on the original plan, fighting in Community Warfare! But that's like 3-4 months out!

[grayson marik]

Hmm, there is one thing, that makes my mind boggle every time I stumble on a thread like this.

Why do you folks ask for automated matchmaking stuff for premade vs premade matches at all?
You can debate over automated settings until the end of world! - There will always be something ..bad.

In short:

- Automated matchmaking is and will always be exploitable.
- Automated matchmaking takes a LOT of development time, which is often neglected by the fact above
- Automated matchmaking will in no way be sufficient for organized tournaments and such.

Why don't we simply collect the drop options we would like to have and demand a kind of lobby system for teams?
for example I'd like to have options to :

- set a drop weight limit
- set a stock match, where players can use their own mechs but get served with a stock instance in game ( repair costs calculated against that stock variant then)
- set a drop pattern like AA, MMMM, LL
- 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4 ...

We, the grouped up people, can do a much better matchmaking the manual way than PGI can ever possibly code.
PGI would spare a lot of programming time, if such a system would exist first. After this, gaming fun can be achieved by organized players for a long time to come.
So PGI than has a LOT of time to get the auto MM right for general gaming - if needed at all then .

For PUG matches, I think matchmaking is fine as it is for some time now, so again PGI would have the time to really do a fresh approach after a manual, lobby based, group matchmaking would be in place for a while.
( Not to consider the data, that could show the players favourite drop settings for such a fresh approach on automated matchmaking and so on...)


Long story short:

- Lobbies for the groups to enable organised gaming
- random matchmaking for the "fast matches during lunch break ( PUG'S)

Edited by grayson marik, 06 December 2012 - 11:58 PM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Sean von Steinike, on 06 December 2012 - 11:45 PM, said:

Oh, didn't you know? It was stupid PUG...L2P pug idiots, get a team you stupid Puggers. Now the 8 mans whining are the idiots it seems.

Hmm, honestly stop for a second and think about what you're saying. Because if you were involved with Closed Beta, you'd understand the issue.

Because people are being given unrestricted drop limits, they're taking whatever they feel like. In doing so, the game is heavily imbalanced because as I said earlier, if I choose to run a Medium or heavy other than a Catapult of some kind, I'm hurting my team because no other teams are running those mechs really. You see Atlai, and Jenners and commandos, oh, and let's not forget how BROKEN ECM currently is, so if there are other weightclasses being taken, it's the ECM compatible variants.

This same issue happened during closed beta, where PGI saw a majority of mechs were not being utilized simply because there were no drop limits. the Solution was matching drop's with groups running similar "chassis" types, remember that? If you had 3 lights a medium 2 heavy's and 2 assaults, you'd fight another team with those mechs. you know, how the PUG matchmaker currently works? Well 8v8's don't get that.

[Jonathan Paine]

I really like the 2+2+2+2 weight class idea. Sounds like it will add interesting diversity and should not be too hard to implement. Perhaps someone should make a poll? Kitsune, kudos to you:)

[Wormrex]

Jade Kitsune, on 06 December 2012 - 11:51 PM, said:

You're new arn't you?

Several things have been pushed back by MONTHS!

We should be... right now on the original plan, fighting in Community Warfare! But that's like 3-4 months out!

Yes quite, and btw quite like your pony brigade slogan, ha ha.

The point I am trying to make is, patience is a virtue, so long as it is within acceptable time frame with notable changes. Would you think community warfare will be nice when we have all these encroaching bugs at the moment? I rather they take a bit more time to get it right than serve us half baked double chocolate fudge muffins...

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

grayson marik, on 06 December 2012 - 11:53 PM, said:

Hmm, there is one thing, that makes my mind boggle every time I stumble on a thread like this.

Why do you folks ask for automated matchmaking stuff for premade vs premade matches at all?
You can debate over automated settings until the end of world! - There will always be something ..bad.

In short:

- Automated matchmaking is and will always be exploitable.
- Automated matchmaking takes a LOT of development time, which is often neglected by the fact above
- Automated matchmaking will in no way be sufficient for organized tournaments and such.

Why don't we simply collect the drop options we would like to have and demand a kind of lobby system for teams?
for example I'd like to have options to :

- set a drop weight limit
- set a stock match, where players can use their own mechs but get served with a stock instance in game ( repair costs calculated against that stock variant then)
- set a drop pattern like AA, MMMM, LL

We, the grouped up people, can do a much better matchmaking the manual way than PGI can ever possibly code.
PGI would spare a lot of programming time, if such a system would exist first. After this, gaming fun can be achieved by organized players for a long time to come.
So PGI than has a LOT of time to get the auto MM right for general gaming - if needed at all then .

For PUG matches, I think matchmaking is fine as it is for some time now, so again PGI would have the time to really do a fresh approach after a manual, lobby based, group matchmaking would be in place for a while.
( Not to consider the data, that could show the players favourite drop settings for such a fresh approach on automated matchmaking and so on...)


Long story short:

- Lobbies for the groups to enable organised gaming
- random matchmaking for the "fast matches during lunch break ( PUG'S)

Because if the Public is allowed to limit things, the game also becomes a clusterFUSK.
Ever try to play CoD: WaW on PC? you can't play that game hardly the way it's "intended" to be played, because 90% of the "Active" servers run this stupid "tactical, crouch-walking" bs format that's Player/Admin enforced.

That's the LAST thing I want from this game. I'd rather have the company running it setting up the "Rules" we all play by, however there has to be RULES... not just "here's matchmaker, have at it." like it is now.

[Asmosis]

Jacmac, on 06 December 2012 - 09:26 PM, said:

Yes, there are a lot of 8-mans breaking up and going back to 4-mans. Saw it on the Teamspeak servers, big-time tonight. I think many players aren't happy with being basically forced out of their favorite mech and into buying an Atlas D-DC they don't want to play all of the time or a Commando, Raven, Cicada they simply don't like.

most people complaining arent happy about actually losing matches on a regular basis, its hurting their egos/stats.

Atlas go down just as fast as any other mech if your team knows how to focus fire.

Also the reason there is no drop limit is PGI (quite rightly) recognised the amount of players who would do 8-man teams vs 8-man teams isnt enough to allow matched drop classes. Basically they know your full of BS about your anti-pug/elitist boasting.

Edited by Asmosis, 07 December 2012 - 12:04 AM.

[Jman5]

Jade Kitsune, on 06 December 2012 - 11:36 PM, said:

Actually, yes, it is that bad.

See there's no limitation on 8v8 drops. you can bring whatever you want to the party. That means people are running a majority of 1 type of mech, and a couple of something else... so like, a team of 5 atlas' and 3 jenners...

People need to understand that the "meta game" is really only taking its first baby steps now that ECM and full 8 mans has turned everything upside down. So of course people are going to gravitate toward the simplistic blob strategies as we figure things out.

Anyone can see the simple benefits of an Atlas D-DC: Big hulking armor, lots of firepower, and that new ECM. Anyone can see the simple benefits of a light mech with their high speed, good scouting ability, base harass, and potential ECM.

The problem with Mediums and Heavies is that their role is nuanced and not easily quantifiable. They're versatile and that can be critical when facing the unknown. They can swat lights, run back to base in a hurry to prevent a cap, do some quick recon, reinforce a position and hold their own in a brawl.

Mediums and Heavies help smooth your edges so your team doesn't get hard countered by either mass lights, or mass assaults. Especially since your opponents could be dropping with literally anything.

It will take some time, but mark my words: people will start shaving off ECM mechs and you will start to see more teams incorporating one or two medium/heavy mechs on their team. Probably some youtube video will start circulating around that gets everyone into a new mindset.

Edited by Jman5, 07 December 2012 - 12:15 AM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Wormrex, on 06 December 2012 - 11:59 PM, said:

Yes quite, and btw quite like your pony brigade slogan, ha ha.

The point I am trying to make is, patience is a virtue, so long as it is within acceptable time frame with notable changes. Would you think community warfare will be nice when we have all these encroaching bugs at the moment? I rather they take a bit more time to get it right than serve us half baked double chocolate fudge muffins...

Thank you.

And to be honest about your question of if I'd want CW with the game as it is now... well, that's a tricky question. I want CW as soon as ECM is "fixed" frankly. And just before ECM was introduced, I'd happily have fought in CW.

as the game sits this moment, No, no I'd much rather they hold off... but I think we could have been running CW fine up till this point. But I've been involved in this game since Closed Beta in June.

[Lefty Lucy]

Jade Kitsune, on 06 December 2012 - 11:56 PM, said:

Hmm, honestly stop for a second and think about what you're saying. Because if you were involved with Closed Beta, you'd understand the issue.

Because people are being given unrestricted drop limits, they're taking whatever they feel like. In doing so, the game is heavily imbalanced because as I said earlier, if I choose to run a Medium or heavy other than a Catapult of some kind, I'm hurting my team because no other teams are running those mechs really. You see Atlai, and Jenners and commandos, oh, and let's not forget how BROKEN ECM currently is, so if there are other weightclasses being taken, it's the ECM compatible variants.

This same issue happened during closed beta, where PGI saw a majority of mechs were not being utilized simply because there were no drop limits. the Solution was matching drop's with groups running similar "chassis" types, remember that? If you had 3 lights a medium 2 heavy's and 2 assaults, you'd fight another team with those mechs. you know, how the PUG matchmaker currently works? Well 8v8's don't get that.

I'd rather see every mech and weight class have a valid role in the game, than some sort of a hamfisted "you have to bring two mediums because we say so" approach. People should be able to play a medium competitively because it brings some qualities to the battlefield that the other classes do not.

[yashmack]

I love the centurion and my yen lo wang

[maxmarechal]

we managed to play 8-man yesterday with our "all-darn-frenchies" team
found a lot of D-DC (sometimes 3 or 4 in a 8-group) but any time we lost was, to our opinion,due to bad coordination or no focus on primary targets
i noticed we tend to concentrate on ecm jammers instead of more important targets and got our arses kicked real good!!!!
now playing team vs team gets very challenging and that's for the best
if a team wants to field only heavies due to lack of tonnage so be it...we'll get some fast harassers behind next time....
having said that implementing matchmaking 8vs8 with the possibility to define a tonnage limit for each team would be great
both teams would have to agree on initial tonnage (some sort of clan bid in tons rather than points or stars...)
and strangely Pugging is now more fun as everyboding seems to reply when you go "hi" at the start,you even get some info in-game....