288 replies to this topic

[Buddhist Knight]

"I think the problem is a lot of 8man groups expected this to be a return to the easy pugstomps of old, and didn't realize they needed to put in at least some effort."

Agreed and not to mention there are not quite as many people rolling around still trying to find out how to group weapons etc. Should have managed expectations and/or view it as the challenge it is.

[QuantumButler]

Buddhist Knight, on 07 December 2012 - 09:06 AM, said:

"I think the problem is a lot of 8man groups expected this to be a return to the easy pugstomps of old, and didn't realize they needed to put in at least some effort."

Agreed and not to mention there are not quite as many people rolling around still trying to find out how to group weapons etc. Should have managed expectations and/or view it as the challenge it is.

i'm happy with it, most fun I've had in MWO since Open Beta honestly.

[RumRunner151]

8-man is the most fun I have had...well...since we last had 8-mans. We even did sync drops against another merc group last night and it was sooo fun. Unfortunately, having a number of people evenly divisible by 8 does not happen all the time so you will still see me, other Cored members, and other merc groups in 4-mans while we wait for spots in 8-mans or while we test new mech designs.

Just because you see me in 4's does not mean I don't want to be in 8's.

[PropagandaWar]

MorbidGamer, on 07 December 2012 - 08:55 AM, said:

Funny when I play pugs I see trail mechs, med mechs, and heavy mech... RARE to see anything wieght class being over represented.

Though there has been an increasing amount of light mechs now and with ECM commando's are the #1 choice with raven a close #2. Jenners are rare to see now after patch.

Oh so other than trial mechs you know your against puggers? Youll see Gaussapult all over the forum for pugs and premies that like lame builds, but I digress. I like ravens when Im in my hunch they are still easier to flay than jenners.

[Vermaxx]

The issue with 8s is one of player base. The ONLY competition these teams can find, the ones looking for a real challenge, are the people who form 8s and get into matches. There is no queue, there are no lobbies. You cannot pick who you fight, you can't even sit waiting for a match in a slow period.

Right now 8s is the new craze. A lot of the cheesers will break up when they realize that they can do the same thing with less effort in 4s. This will mean that the try-hards are facing each other more often than not, but the barebones matching system will start to generate headaches based off the relatively low population looking to do 8s. Since there is no queue, and matches will generally take longer with two try-hards going head to head, people will start spending more time waiting and less time fighting.

8s was a step to placate vocal forum goers. It will probably have little to no resemblance of how things work in CW. As such, many people are realizing it is somewhat underwhelming. All it does is guarantee you are facing 8 people who bothered to group up. It does NOT guarantee you are facing 8 QUALITY people who grouped up, or even 8 people looking for a stand-up fight.

[PropagandaWar]

QuantumButler, on 07 December 2012 - 09:04 AM, said:

We here at Kong don't tend to syncdrop in the pub qeue, if you run into us in a Pub game there's only 4 or less of us.

Why don't we syncdrop you ask?

It's too much trouble.

I feel the saaame way. Why sync. It is what it is. I think its funny when we accidently run into our own teamates. in the 4 groups.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

8 man's are ok, we've not had any problem trashing ECM teams using heavies and a Jenner, ECM only really effects you if your reliant on missiles and/or have no inter unit co-ordination.

Whatever the dearest pug players want to believe, simple fact of the matter is that to roll competitively and pick up each new mech and variant and associated weapons, you need a huge pool of Cbills, the fastest way is 1-4 mans, your not reliant on 8 people having nothing to do at any stage of the evening, so yes you'll see units doing 1-4 and 8 man's im afraid and that is solely PGI's fault for not rating the matchmaker as a high priority for development until it was far too late

Did find the random puggie telling Kaos they haz no skillz yo slightly amusing.

That said...still want to be able to match up against other competitive 8's rather than scrub 8's.

Edited by DV McKenna, 07 December 2012 - 09:20 AM.

[Fenix0742]

Another problems with the 8 man queue is it is a lot less efficient in terms of c-bill gains. There is so much downtime waiting on people to reconnect after one of the many bugs strikes someone, or mech-labbing, or general afk that its a big hassle for us and probably anyone else in a pick-up style premade. People with premium time ticking often want to just grind money in smaller groups.

Personally I'd like to see them allow 8man groups to drop 1 or 2 short, and just deal with the handicap. That would make 8 mans more accessible to smaller corps.

[Greyfyl]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 December 2012 - 10:20 PM, said:

I do think that while the pompous *** attitude some PUGs are on their soapbox with is just envy, their IS a kernel of truth, as I noticed an increase in whining on my units forum, and on the MWO forums both (Hate to say it but if BWC is so barny badazz Ex-Military why are their members leading the QQ brigade about ECM? I know several of their guys are class, but dayum.)

Puggers are envious of what exactly? You are just clueless.

Called this weeks ago....many of the people doing the pugstomping were below average skill level players. They are realizing that now....and before you all get your panties in a bunch...I said many - not all. There are some incredibly skilled players/teams out there.

[Orzorn]

The Remnant had no issue stomping most of the teams (we did lose several times though, and they were usually pretty good fights, although we had a few fights were we got rolled due to superior tactics, NOT extra weight) we came across, and we only ran one assault mech.

But that was the first day of the patch. Perhaps we did some more 8 mans we'd notice more of the cheese people are mentioning? I don't know, but I can say that I didn't feel that way the first night. Honestly, it was probably the most fun I've had in MWO since August.

[DaZur]

Okay...

Maybe I'm just ignorant or naive (Go ahead take your poke at me... you know ya wanna) but in light of what the PMs consider to be a major issue with the 8man drop as it's presently designed, would not all PMs take the rational and or logical route of forming essentially a "gentlemen's agreement" in regards to 8man drop etiquette to help bolster the viability of 8man drop until PGI presents a better option?

I mean seriously, the clamor for the return of the 8man drop was deafening... I would think PMs would be a bit more self-sufficient in encouraging solid team play rather than purposely abusing the faulty system...

Yeah, I know some PMs are abusing in an attempt to prove a point... Kind'a cutting off their nose to spite their face IMHO... But I digress.

That said reverting back to accosting the casual PUGs is not the solution either.

Edited by DaZur, 07 December 2012 - 09:29 AM.

[Lin Shai]

Greyfyl, on 07 December 2012 - 09:25 AM, said:

Puggers are envious of what exactly? You are just clueless.

Called this weeks ago....many of the people doing the pugstomping were below average skill level players. They are realizing that now....and before you all get your panties in a bunch...I said many - not all. There are some incredibly skilled players/teams out there.

When it's the same 5 whiners who have posted on these forums over and over and over for months that they get "stomped" by the "pre-made" boogyman making these threads... you realize it's really not happening, yes? The same as it never was.

[Greyfyl]

Streeter, on 06 December 2012 - 11:07 PM, said:

this is a really good point and shows that the majority of people only care when the imbalance is against them... then again thats hardly surprising.

Which is why I stopped doing premades against pugs when OB started. I enjoy doing premades (who doesn't like to win?), but I can survive doing pugs until they get the matchmaking figured out. But I must admit I find this whole thread full of humor - I saw this coming (as did many other players as well) weeks ago. Many people weren't doing 4mans for the camraderie - they wanted easy wins. And they are still doing 4 mans now - just now they run ecm groups and the imbalance is often even worse.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

DaZur, on 07 December 2012 - 09:28 AM, said:

Okay...

Maybe I'm just ignorant or naive (Go ahead take your poke at me... you know ya wanna) but in light of what the PMs consider to be a major issue with the 8man drop as it's presently designed, would not all PMs take to rational and or logical route of forming essentially a "gentlemen's agreement" in regards to 8man drop etiquette to help bolster the viability of 8man drop until PGI presents a better option?

I mean seriously, the clamor for the return of the 8man drop was deafening... I would think PMs would be a bit more self-sufficient in encouraging solid team play rather than purposely abusing the faulty system...

Yeah, I know some PMs are abusing in an attempt to prove a point... Kind'a cutting off their nose to spite their face IMHO... But I digress.

That said reverting back to accosting the casual PUGs is not the solution either.

I think you'll find most pre mades, here to compete already do this i don't think i have seen any of the really competitive pre mades that we have played so far, drop mass atlas/cicada builds....except for one game vs ELP where they had 5-6 D-DC's on day 1.

It's simply not going to make anyone better by playing it, and your not going to get the scrubby players that can only pilot atlases to step into anything else.

[Greyfyl]

Lin Shai, on 07 December 2012 - 09:29 AM, said:

When it's the same 5 whiners who have posted on these forums over and over and over for months that they get "stomped" by the "pre-made" boogyman making these threads... you realize it's really not happening, yes? The same as it never was.

You do realize that it's not that hard to figure out when it's a premade right? Right? Right?

But of course people that do premades don't 'whine' do they? Oh wait....that's what this entire thread is for the most part. A mere 3 days after 8v8 is dropped....imagine that.

[CodeNameValtus]

random51, on 06 December 2012 - 09:36 PM, said:

I prefer 4-man simply for reduced downtime and more variety. This is a bit of an exaggeration but 8-man feels like 5-10 minutes between matches of who can drop with the most D-DCs while 4-man you can still run/see anything and you don't have to wait for 7 other people to get their thumb out and ready up.

Do your mechlab/pilotlab on your own time, don't waste the time of an 8-man while you tweak percentage points. I get my mech where I want it to be BEFORE I look for a group. Unfortunately I'm one of few people that considerate of other people's time.

If only the rest of the world was as kind as us eh?

[Lin Shai]

Greyfyl, on 07 December 2012 - 09:33 AM, said:

But of course people that do premades don't 'whine' do they? Oh wait....that's what this entire thread is for the most part. A mere 3 days after 8v8 is dropped....imagine that.

If by "whine" you mean pointing out that PGI once again made poor design choices and implemented yet another substandard system leading to player dissatisfaction?

Then yes, that's what some of this this thread is about. It started out as a PUG troll thread.

I barely even bother playing this game any more. Seriously. Because for me it's simply not that enjoyable. Even if you ignore all the bugs and problems, their continued inability to implement a working matchmaking and social system is just laughable.

My current choices are:

• PUG and deal with DC/Suicide/Rambo/no coordination/No social aspect
  
• Play 2-4 usually against the above, winning 90% of the time, with 4 of our "team" being the above
  
• play 8v8 when possible with a broken system that leads to a lot of imbalanced games

Now ... I personally go with the last item on the list because it's the lesser of three evils. But really, this isn't the only game available and I'm simply not masochistic enough to keep beating my head against a wall because PGI is a half-assed developer. Give them a year (1000 monkeys with 1000 typewriters strategy) and they might sort out these issues.


Before they did this I posted honest feedback that implementing 8v8 like this would be a less than intelligent move, and offered that there were some very simple things that would improve it (And my simple I mean from a software engineering point of view, which is what I do for a living). After they did it ... eh, I'm just going to call it like it is. You won't see me starting "whining" threads or really even complaining about it directly, but I'm certainly going to point out the most egregious BS from others in a thread.

Edited by Lin Shai, 07 December 2012 - 10:02 AM.

[Stoicblitzer]

Lefty Lucy, on 07 December 2012 - 06:16 AM, said:

LOL, you guys just can't give up that Skinner Box.

This is why having an "economy" is antithetical to a game designed for competition.

A "sane" person would run 8 mans because they don't care about imaginary space buxx, and want to have the best challenge available.

Lefty, it's not really about the space buxx. It's more about the space XP. I've already had a master DDC for a long time but I don't want to play it over and over in 8v8s. I want to try level a different mech and if I choose anything that's not a gausscat, DDC, or ecm light then I am gimping my team. 4man premades allows me to use my expensive-as-**** muromets with whatever I want on it. Not dual gauss cheese.

[Belorion]

Both the money and the xp come quick enough no matter what you do.

[River Walker]

Ah yes So 8 on 8 is not the dream thy Thoth it would be.
Wiping out pugs for fast XP was the name of the game. Now their back to the pug Farming in 4 man team because they have to work for it.

Edited by River Walker, 07 December 2012 - 10:22 AM.