229 replies to this topic

[Wintersdark]

Quote

As its beem said a thousands times... people are doing that now. that wont change. There is no more RNR, so there is no reason to hide unless your worried about stats, which is why people do it now. Again... there is no reason not to add TDM

Errr, did you miss where we said the bases FIX the running and hiding issue? They don't prevent it, but they make the battle wrap up right quick when it does happen.

That said, I've never seen anyone run off and hide in an Assault match. Never. I suppose you could to lamely preserve your useless, meaningless, and never shown KDR. But you can't troll people by doing that in Assault, because you can just meander over to the enemy base and it's game over in short order.

[Teralitha]

Wintersdark, on 06 January 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

Because what you want would suck in this game. The reason we have bases isn't to turn Assault into Capture the Flag.

The primary reason the bases are there at all is to ensure that an early loss of a couple mechs is to ensure the battles wrap up in a timely fashion with a well defined winner and loser. Thing losing (or winning) by base cap is crappy? Battles ending by timeout is worse. Who wins? The team with the most mechs on the field? The most tons? It's extremely fiddly picking a winner when there's a timeout. They actively encourage players to win via combat, as the rewards are much higher.

Nobody wants to see battles that drag on for the full 15 minutes just because some asshat Jenner powers down in a corner somewhere.

Secondarily, those bases add a level of depth to the strategy in the game. It's not enough to just focus on killing the opposing team, you have other factors to consider too.

See, it's not that the dev's don't want a no-respawn TDM. That's what Assault IS. But without those bases, gameplay can be (and absolutely will be) crappy due to trolls. The devs don't want to release deliberately crappy-by-design gameplay, even if some people are ok with that.

To address: Why can't they put in modes that only some people will like, because you don't have to play them?

1) To avoid putting in game modes that are inherently flawed (easy trolling via hiding, for example) tying up the other players mechs for 15 minutes
2) Because if you've got a bunch of game modes that are fundamentally different from the overall game design (this also applies to, say, a unlimited respawn game mode) then suddenly your core demographic can't just select "ANY" for game mode anymore, they have to choose just one to play. This is particularly relevant when your core demographic views those game modes as inherently bad not just poorly balanced, such as Conquest currently with it's too-slow resource generation.

Those are your opinions and your entitled to them, however wrong they may be. If TDM is added for those that want it, whats that to you? You can still play assault. As far as Im concerned, and others have said it also, assault mode is bunk. Great for the noobs to play in and learn the game though. But to reach a higher level of skilled tactical play, TDM is required.

Edited by Teralitha, 06 January 2013 - 02:51 PM.

[Ozric]

Teralitha, on 06 January 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

Those are your opinions and your entitled to them, however wrong they may be. If TDM is added for those that want it, whats that to you? You can still play assault. As far as Im concerned, and others have said it also, assault mode is bunk. Great for the noobs to play in and practice.... but for a higher level of tactical play, TDM is required.

He explained the reasoning pretty well. Assault mode is just TDM by another name. Any tactics you could use in TDM you could use in assault mode too. Is this a serious thread?

[Teralitha]

Wintersdark, on 06 January 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

Errr, did you miss where we said the bases FIX the running and hiding issue? They don't prevent it, but they make the battle wrap up right quick when it does happen.

That said, I've never seen anyone run off and hide in an Assault match. Never. I suppose you could to lamely preserve your useless, meaningless, and never shown KDR. But you can't troll people by doing that in Assault, because you can just meander over to the enemy base and it's game over in short order.

I prefer hunting the little ******** down myself. Its not like they are hard to find... base capping is a crutch and its the lazy way out.

Edited by Teralitha, 06 January 2013 - 03:10 PM.

[Teralitha]

Ozric, on 06 January 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

He explained the reasoning pretty well. Assault mode is just TDM by another name. Any tactics you could use in TDM you could use in assault mode too. Is this a serious thread?

What is your point? That you dont want any more game modes? They could add 100 more modes and it wouldnt matter, you can still play assault mode and nothing else.

Enough with the ignorant derping please.

Team Death Match is the most classic of game modes, has been for decades. Would be a crime not to have it in MWO

Edited by Teralitha, 06 January 2013 - 03:02 PM.

[Ozric]

Teralitha, on 06 January 2013 - 02:58 PM, said:

What is your point? That you dont want any more game modes? They could add 100 more modes and it wouldnt matter, you can still play assault mode and nothing else.

Enough with the ignorant derping please.

Team Death Match is the most classic of game modes, has been for decades. Would be a crime not to have it in MWO

The point is you are not addressing any of the counter arguments, and are instead throwing trollish comments around. That kind of invalidates your point in the first place.

And sure we could have 100 game modes, that would be fine, but they would have to be different. The only only difference between TDM and assault is the option to capture in the later, and that's not enough of a game changer to warrant the time or resources. Maybe when the game is finished you can have your simplified assault mode, or perhaps if we get the option to set up our own matches you could turn off the capture option and get a real TDM that way. But I would prefer them to use their time producing new game modes that actually encourage new playstyles and tactics, not more of the same.

[BerryChunks]

in muche the same way "Camper"Strike has hostages or a bomb to plant to prevent people from standing around all day and eventually getting bored and frustrated at the game, objectives are there just as a Stick rather than a carrot, to anyone who tries to just avoid dying to the other team all day, wasting people's time.

All games are TDM. Not all games are "Grab 1 obective" vs "grab X objectives".


The more game modes they make, the more people can isolate bits of the community from each other by selecting "play only Y mode".

In doing so, match searches will fail more often, people will play "regular others" all the time, and people will eventually get bored of that, too.

Edited by BerryChunks, 06 January 2013 - 04:19 PM.

[CrashieJ]

team deathmatch + timer

whoever loses less when the timer runs out "wins"

problem solved.

[BerryChunks]

gavilatius, on 06 January 2013 - 04:38 PM, said:

team deathmatch + timer

whoever loses less when the timer runs out "wins"

problem solved.

There's already a time limit. There's also objectives to force people to move instead of camp. Do you even play this game?

[Davers]

TDM = Assault - tactical options.

Honestly. if you could, tell me what new strategies and options are opened by TDM? Won't TDM actually further minimize the role of Medium mechs?

[CrashieJ]

BerryChunks, on 06 January 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

There's already a time limit. There's also objectives to force people to move instead of camp. Do you even play this game?

the timer would be initiated when 1 or two enemy mechs are left on the field, when the (say 5 min.) timer runs out those who run and hide would tallied as "salvage".

yes I do play the game, as far as you know, probably better than you since i'm actually giving out a solution to a problem rather than being an ***.

[Wintersdark]

Teralitha, on 06 January 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

As far as Im concerned, and others have said it also, assault mode is bunk. Great for the noobs to play in and learn the game though. But to reach a higher level of skilled tactical play, TDM is required.

You've said things like this a few times. I get that you dislike having options beyond just killing, but you're insistence that Assault offers less tactical options/leads to more skilled tactical play is objectively incorrect.

Which you enjoy best? Sure. 100% opinion. But as far as tactical play, more options=more valid tactics. That's pretty simple and straight forward. As I said before, Assault IS team death match, the bases are just a failsafe. If a game ends due to capping, that is directly due to tactical failure (nobody prevented it) or skill failure (those attempting to prevent it failed).

Teralitha, on 06 January 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

I prefer hunting the little ******** down myself. Its not like they are hard to find... base capping is a crutch and its the lazy way out.

If you're piloting anything other than a light/medium, you won't catch someone who wants to run and hide. Simple math, unless they are terribly bad.

Base capping is hardly the easy way, it's only easy if nobody bothers to oppose it - if they show a distressing lack of tactics or skill. That said, very few people want to win that way due to the much reduced rewards, so it only happens rarely anymore anyways: the bases now function more like the failsafe they are intended to be.

And quite frankly... I'd really rather a player go cap the base rather than hunt a troll light to end the battle faster anyways. That's some boring spectating, and I want my mechs back.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Dirus Nigh, on 05 January 2013 - 09:15 PM, said:

COD has team death match, so does BF3. Try it there.

I love it in BF3. I also really enjoy the conquest and rush modes. What's wrong with wanting to have those modes here as well. Folks act as if it will somehow lessen THEIR game experience if others get to play a mode they'd like to see introduced. Guess what, I rarely if ever play conquest. Just don't enjoy it with PUGs (for a variety of reasons), but I don't ***** and complain that it somehow screws MY ability to enjoy the game because others like conquest.

[Alaric the Arcane]

Ozric, on 06 January 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

Assault mode is just TDM by another name. Any tactics you could use in TDM you could use in assault mode too.

Oh man, tell me about it. I remember when I was playing Quake 3 ten years ago on the OGL TDM ladder and my team totally rushed the other team's Red Square and stood on it for a minute to win the game. It was the most epic TDM match I've ever played!

[CDLord HHGD]

TL:DR

What are you gonna do when you got that one commando/jenner/raven left that will run/hide/power down and you cannot find it? Stomp around for 10 minutes or more looking for it, or are you gonna wish you had a base to go cap and get it over with?

[Teralitha]

Davers, on 06 January 2013 - 05:00 PM, said:

TDM = Assault - tactical options.

Honestly. if you could, tell me what new strategies and options are opened by TDM? Won't TDM actually further minimize the role of Medium mechs?

tactics? what tactics? You mean.. derp I must go to red square... that isnt tactics.

Ill tell you whats new when bases are absent... you can choose to fight anywhere on the map without a ball and chain(bases) manuevering becomes free form, new tactics and strategies are formed based on the parts of the maps that dont get used(everywhere but the bases). Scouting becomes important. you can set up actual shutdown ambushes and have your scout lead the enemy into a trap. you can run and gun freely, or set up a defensive position(ANYWHERE ON THE ENTIRE MAP) The possibilities multiply a thousand fold.

Anyone who cant see that is just dumb and blind. the best part about adding in a new game mode is... you dont have to play it. just like the new conquest mode. I dont have to play it. But people who like it, can. Same goes for TDM.

Why do ppl argue? You realize the topic line is a question for the devs right? Theres no reason not to add it. Garth recently told me the dev team has never even discussed other possible game modes beyond assault and conquest. With the huge amount of new mode suggestions flying about, I am astounded they havent even considered a single one of them.

Edited by Teralitha, 07 January 2013 - 03:35 AM.

[Teralitha]

cdlord, on 06 January 2013 - 07:14 PM, said:

TL:DR

What are you gonna do when you got that one commando/jenner/raven left that will run/hide/power down and you cannot find it? Stomp around for 10 minutes or more looking for it, or are you gonna wish you had a base to go cap and get it over with?

As I have said numorous times which you would have seen had you bothered to read the discussion, I have no problem whatsoever with searching for the last enemy. They created BAP to find shutdown mechs, and if they arent found, the timer runs out at 15 minutes... big fn deal. I already know what its like, and I want it. Did you know that in previous MW titles that matches had as much as 3 hours time limits possible? Has the attention span of this gaming generation grown so short that 15 minutes for 1 game is too much to bear? I pity you.

How long is a round in WOT or LOL? (hint... longer than 15 minutes...) in LOL you cant even vote for surrender until the 20 minute mark. Nobody complains about those games taking too long. Get a grip.

Edited by Teralitha, 06 January 2013 - 07:29 PM.

[Davers]

Teralitha, on 06 January 2013 - 07:19 PM, said:

tactics? what tactics? You mean.. derp I must go to red square... that isnt tactics.

Ill tell you whats new when bases are absent... you can choose to fight anywhere on the map without a ball and chain(bases) manuevering becomes free form, new tactics and strategies are formed based on the parts of the maps that dont get used(everywhere but the bases). Scouting becomes important. you can set up actual shutdown ambushes and have your scout lead the enemy into a trap. you can run and gun freely, or set up a defensive position. The possibilities multiply a thousand fold.

Anyone who cant see that is just dumb and blind. the best part about adding in a new game mode is... you dont have to play it. just like the new conquest mode. I dont have to play it. But people who like it, can. Same goes for TDM.

Why do ppl argue? You realize the topic line is a question for the devs right? Theres no reason not to add it. Garth recently told me the dev team has never even discussed other possible game modes beyond assault and conquest. With the huge amount of new mode suggestions flying about, I am astounded they havent even considered a single one of them.

Let's forget that every single strategy you have described I have seen in Assault.

What is the role of Medium mech in TDM? Why would you need a compromise between speed and firepower? I just see it becoming completely AssaultOnline without even a secondary objective to give value to mobility. The fact that people who are totally for TDM are talking about needing 'auto-kill' timers recognizes that without some kind of game ending mechanic fights will get bogged down in boredom.

[Teralitha]

Davers, on 06 January 2013 - 07:35 PM, said:

Let's forget that every single strategy you have described I have seen in Assault.

What is the role of Medium mech in TDM? Why would you need a compromise between speed and firepower? I just see it becoming completely AssaultOnline without even a secondary objective to give value to mobility. The fact that people who are totally for TDM are talking about needing 'auto-kill' timers recognizes that without some kind of game ending mechanic fights will get bogged down in boredom.

Oh really.... tell me what strategy that you can use in assault that involves leaving behind your red square to fight in previously unexplored territory that doesnt result in... "base under attack" cuz uuhhh.... you cant do that in assault mode, your only options are... attack a red square, or defend a red square - THAT, is the extent of the tactical possibilities you have in assault. but you do can anything you want in TDM. Total tactical freedom baby.

Dumb and blind... like I said.

Edited by Teralitha, 06 January 2013 - 07:43 PM.

[Davers]

Teralitha, on 06 January 2013 - 07:39 PM, said:

Oh really.... tell me what strategy that you can use in assault that involves leaving behind your red square to fight in previously unexplored territory that doesnt result in... "base under attack" cuz uuhhh.... you cant do that in assault mode, your only options are... attack a red square, or defend a red square - THAT, is the extent of the tactical possibilities you have in assault. but you do can anything you want in TDM. Total tactical freedom baby.

Dumb and blind... like I said.

No need to be insulting just because I don't agree with you.