152 replies to this topic

[Red squirrel]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 December 2012 - 04:56 PM, said:

what I love is the number o people expounding the "pen on paper" inferiority of the Awesome, but totally missing, overlooking or flat ignoring the multiple posts about the areas it real world bests the Atlas or Stalker.

The 9M, of course is much faster. But even the reviled 8 series has much better turn rate, and torso twist. Better arm tracking and speed.

Yes, if you post the Awesome at 100 meters, face to face with the other two, and try to slug it out, the Awesome loses, every single time. (The other two ARE much harder to headshot). But the Awesome actually favors the better pilot, who keeps moving, and knows how to use the lack of mobility of the other two to hit them on the flanks, where the Atlas and Stalker are both at a serious disadvantage to try to track it.

Like they say in football "it's why we play the game".

Paper advantage, is not always real advantage. Atlas is forgiving with all it's armor and guns, the Stalker is dangerous to anything in front of it, but the best Assault pilots I have encountered usually have driven Awesomes. (At least until ECM Warrior started.....)

Nikolii, on 30 December 2012 - 06:37 PM, said:

Assuming anyone is still reading this, I'll weigh in. I've got a founder's Atlas, and am Master ranked with Awesomes and Stalkers. I'm good with them too, so I'd say that gives me some authority on the matter.

The problem with the Stalker is that is has a tiny torso twist range and no real arms. Couple this with the fact that its side torsos are larger than its center and you have a mech that is easy to dismember. Against a PuG this will virtually never be an issue, since they generally stand toe to toe, however any smarter pilots can easily stay in that massive blind spot.

My mech of choice is the Awesome 8V. The Awesome has the largest torso twist range and field of vision, which makes tracking faster mechs much easier. The Awesome is at a disadvantage against other assault mechs if they stand still. Same is true of a Raven against a Centurion. The advantage of being smaller is that the mech takes a disproportionately smaller engine to propel. A 290 rated engine and Elite perks takes the Awesome to 64.6 KPH, which is something an Atlas can't match. Stay outside of their torso mounted weapons long enough to strip a tonne of armor and suddenly it's an even fight.

Yes at least I still read this.
I think there are several scenarios where the Awesome excells the others.
The most important point are the arms IMHO. I like to stay behind cover just that I can still use my arm mounted dual LL or dual PPC.

Also if you have ever seen a Stalker from the side. You can easily hit the CT from almost any angle. So no way to use your arms as cover.

Finally I think most peoples problem is that they do not reallocate any armor from the back to the front CT. ()writing this over and over again) But I use only 20 - 25 points for the back depending on build. This means up to 80 in the front CT as ooposed to the default 67.

Edited by Red squirrel, 31 December 2012 - 12:30 AM.

[Corvus Antaka]

Since its 80 tons its a lieghtwieght for assaults, it will be inferior from that alone.

Pramrily though I think the stalkers tiny tiny CT & head hit box give it a huge edge, thats more a hitbox badly designed issue. If anything the stalkers CT should be easier to hit in the same way the dragons is - thats where you want the blows landing due to it having the most armour.

Add to that the stalkers torso convergence (torso supercedes arm convergence significantly) and the awesome just falls a lot short. Cant blame it for not holding up to an atlas, those 20 tons mean a lot.

I have 1 awesome, I used to run 1 er large, 3 mediums 2 ssrm 2's and an LRM 20. It was a super fun mech, did well, and could snipe plus deal with light mechs very well. A very stock build too which was fun.

However, since ECM the mech is practically useless.

Sad, but true.

Edited by Colonel Pada Vinson, 31 December 2012 - 12:43 AM.

[BerryChunks]

Im not sure why people are complaining about the torso hitbox. Im usually losing side or arms far more quickly then center torso.

The awesome is a mech that goes energy or missile. You need lots of heat dissipating, and the game doesn't reflect (or maybe it does, and does it well) the way heat handles on TT, as translated to real time behavior.

Also, they nerfed DHS, which really only moved the requirements for boating, but killed designs attempting to use PPCs or large lasers. Awesome uses 3 PPCs. It isn't possible to use them effectively, stock build.

3 LRM 15s and 4 medium lasers can do pretty well though.

I'm not sure why weight makes it inferior. If its the "why take an awesome instead of an atlas" line, why take anything less than an atlas? 8 Atlas + high speed engines and ECM = game winner, if being heavier weight is all that matters. It's an assault mech that's going to beat heavies. If the Triple PPC variant could actually fire without overheating for more than one vollley, (heat dissipation being good enough that chain firing allows you a lot of shots before you red line), a lot of people would be crying that the awesome is OP.

Well I did some engine testing, and maybe discovered why.

a 240 rate is supposed to make awesome move 54 kph.
a 300 is supposed to make atlas (100 ton) move 54 kph.
a 300 is supposed to make champion (60 ton) move 86 kph.
a 300 makes dragon (60 ton) move 81 kph.

285 makes Colossus mech (95 ton) go 54.

Basically, the scaling seems off.

Maybe it's also the fact that some boats are better than others, and some mechs are viable as the boats that are best compared to others.

People call the Dragon a low priority target because it cant hold boat setups that work well. It's similar for the Awesome, and it's a product of the behavior of modular weapon stuffing on mechs.

The hardpoint system is also to blame. Look at the way the awesome and dragon are hard pointed. 3 Points for missile racks in the left torso. One Energy point on the arm, two on the right torso.

oR the dragon, 2 ballistic arm, 1 energy right torso, 1 energy right arm.

These Hardpoints sometimes fall in line with the Variant's design rules, Put one weapon of this type here; and sometimes fall into the boating rules "put 3 missiles of your choice here, even if it's 3 LRM 15's, which is OP as **** to do".

Hardpoints are PGI's own additions, and sometimes they fall in line with the design philosophy of Stock mech and TT, and sometimes they allow the most ridiculous boats that shouldn't exist, for some reason.

6 ER PPCs on a stalker? WTF?

Basically, The hardpoint system allows a number of mechs to boat the most overpowered designs, while some mechs (awesome, dragon), had their hardpoints allocated Well (or poorly, depending on who you ask), so they can't stuff overpowered designs on their frame, leading them to be underpowered by comparison.

Edited by BerryChunks, 31 December 2012 - 02:12 AM.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Red squirrel, on 30 December 2012 - 02:57 PM, said:

Why is the thread about the Awesome not getting any love?

because only those who like awesomes have shown up... kinda proves the point that awesome's the bridesmaid of MWO.

[BerryChunks]

For those who worry about the toe to toe effectiveness. Armor allocation is nice. Even distribution is great against smaller faster targets. Full on front is good to stand toe to toe. An atlas usually can't afford to have uneven distribution because of the flies buzzing around it's back. That levels the T2T a bit.

[Red squirrel]

GalaxyBluestar, on 31 December 2012 - 02:22 AM, said:

because only those who like awesomes have shown up... kinda proves the point that awesome's the bridesmaid of MWO.

I just hope to meet you on the enemy team when dropping in an Awesome

PS: Please dont use any ECM light though

[Lightfoot]

I think it is because not much was known about MWO when the Awesome was introduced in Closed Beta.

When the Awesome was introduced it looked like it would be mounting 5-6 LLAS or 4xPPC or 3x ERPPC, or 4x ERLL, once DHS were added. This would give it long range hitting power almost as good as the Atlas so they made the Awesome a fat target (big hitboxxes) for balance.

However, DHS were released as DHS 1.4 and the Atlas is clearly much more powerful now as it always was. Then the Stalker was added and the Stalker out-guns the Awesome by quite a bit. 5xMissiles with 5xEnergy and is nearly as tough as the Atlas.

The Stalker seems to have the balance for today's MWO. The Awesome was balanced for a game that never arrived. I think if DHS 1.4 are roughly how DHS will be represented the Awesome needs a complete re-vamp to balance it for what MWO has actually become.

The Awesome needs to be tough like the Stalker and Atlas are, only difference should be armor values. Since the Awesome will never mount 5-6 LLAS, which should be do-able with full DHS, it should get 12 Energy hardpoints, at least more than the 50 ton Hunchback gets. This is because the reason the AWS-8Q got less than the Swayback was beause the 8Q was supposed to fill them with Large Energy weapons which is impossible now. Its crazy but any Heavy mech outguns the Awesome or matches it.

Complete Awesome revamp for the current game is the only thing that will save it from the junk pile.

Edited by Lightfoot, 31 December 2012 - 10:50 AM.

[LaserAngel]

BerryChunks, on 31 December 2012 - 01:20 AM, said:

Well I did some engine testing, and maybe discovered why.

a 240 rate is supposed to make awesome move 54 kph.
a 300 is supposed to make atlas (100 ton) move 54 kph.
a 300 is supposed to make champion (60 ton) move 86 kph.
a 300 makes dragon (60 ton) move 81 kph.

285 makes Colossus mech (95 ton) go 54.

Basically, the scaling seems off.

We don't get the additional hex of movement from rounding up in Mechwarrior Online. That's why we have 48.6 kph Assault mechs and the Cataphract 4X.

The PPC is going to have its heat dropped down to 8 heat points in a few weeks.

[BunnyWabbit]

The 9M is as good as any atlas. 1 srm6+2 srm4 and 4 mls rips other mechs apart. Like a more stout medium. All the other variants are garbage though which makes it as a whole inferior to the atlas and stalker.

[MustrumRidcully]

Lightfoot, on 31 December 2012 - 10:49 AM, said:

I think it is because not much was known about MWO when the Awesome was introduced in Closed Beta.

When the Awesome was introduced it looked like it would be mounting 5-6 LLAS or 4xPPC or 3x ERPPC, or 4x ERLL, once DHS were added. This would give it long range hitting power almost as good as the Atlas so they made the Awesome a fat target (big hitboxxes) for balance.

However, DHS were released as DHS 1.4 and the Atlas is clearly much more powerful now as it always was. Then the Stalker was added and the Stalker out-guns the Awesome by quite a bit. 5xMissiles with 5xEnergy and is nearly as tough as the Atlas.

The Stalker seems to have the balance for today's MWO. The Awesome was balanced for a game that never arrived. I think if DHS 1.4 are roughly how DHS will be represented the Awesome needs a complete re-vamp to balance it for what MWO has actually become.

The Awesome needs to be tough like the Stalker and Atlas are, only difference should be armor values. Since the Awesome will never mount 5-6 LLAS, which should be do-able with full DHS, it should get 12 Energy hardpoints, at least more than the 50 ton Hunchback gets. This is because the reason the AWS-8Q got less than the Swayback was beause the 8Q was supposed to fill them with Large Energy weapons which is impossible now. Its crazy but any Heavy mech outguns the Awesome or matches it.

Complete Awesome revamp for the current game is the only thing that will save it from the junk pile.

That's an interesting view. You are certainly correct, with its hard points, the AWS-8Q looked like a heavy energy weapons platform - but since heavy energy weapons have never been able to be used in that amountin MW:O, and DHS didn't change much...

The AWS-8Q is basically punished twice - it's stock config made only sense for a different game (the table top), and its optional configs allowed by its hard points only make sense for a game that was never made.

[BerryChunks]

LaserAngel, on 31 December 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

We don't get the additional hex of movement from rounding up in Mechwarrior Online. That's why we have 48.6 kph Assault mechs and the Cataphract 4X.

The PPC is going to have its heat dropped down to 8 heat points in a few weeks.

That reasoning isn't true at all.

With all elite skills practiced for a chassis, Atlas speed is 54 kph like TT.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Red squirrel, on 31 December 2012 - 07:42 AM, said:

I just hope to meet you on the enemy team when dropping in an Awesome

PS: Please dont use any ECM light though

well when i see the last mechs on the map... never an awesome.

Lightfoot, on 31 December 2012 - 10:49 AM, said:

I think it is because not much was known about MWO when the Awesome was introduced in Closed Beta.

When the Awesome was introduced it looked like it would be mounting 5-6 LLAS or 4xPPC or 3x ERPPC, or 4x ERLL, once DHS were added. This would give it long range hitting power almost as good as the Atlas so they made the Awesome a fat target (big hitboxxes) for balance.

However, DHS were released as DHS 1.4 and the Atlas is clearly much more powerful now as it always was. Then the Stalker was added and the Stalker out-guns the Awesome by quite a bit. 5xMissiles with 5xEnergy and is nearly as tough as the Atlas.

The Stalker seems to have the balance for today's MWO. The Awesome was balanced for a game that never arrived. I think if DHS 1.4 are roughly how DHS will be represented the Awesome needs a complete re-vamp to balance it for what MWO has actually become.

The Awesome needs to be tough like the Stalker and Atlas are, only difference should be armor values. Since the Awesome will never mount 5-6 LLAS, which should be do-able with full DHS, it should get 12 Energy hardpoints, at least more than the 50 ton Hunchback gets. This is because the reason the AWS-8Q got less than the Swayback was beause the 8Q was supposed to fill them with Large Energy weapons which is impossible now. Its crazy but any Heavy mech outguns the Awesome or matches it.

Complete Awesome revamp for the current game is the only thing that will save it from the junk pile.

this sooooo this ^ it's ridiculous that hunchis can be more effective energy boats than a 8q.

[Red squirrel]

GalaxyBluestar, on 31 December 2012 - 08:58 PM, said:

well when i see the last mechs on the map... never an awesome.



this sooooo this ^ it's ridiculous that hunchis can be more effective energy boats than a 8q.

True - Sad but true

[Lightfoot]

MustrumRidcully, on 31 December 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

That's an interesting view. You are certainly correct, with its hard points, the AWS-8Q looked like a heavy energy weapons platform - but since heavy energy weapons have never been able to be used in that amountin MW:O, and DHS didn't change much...

The AWS-8Q is basically punished twice - it's stock config made only sense for a different game (the table top), and its optional configs allowed by its hard points only make sense for a game that was never made.

Yes, when they first added DHS 1.4 and accidently left external DHS at 2.0 you could run 5 large lasers on an Awesome. Was very hot and would overheat easily, but truely an Awesome for that one moment in time.

My advice to the Devs to restore the TT Lore Awesome to MWO is to give it special cooling abilities that only Energy boat mechs can have. The bigger the mech the better the special cooling ability. Since energy boat mechs are locked into energy-only configs this is actually a very well balanced fix. Didn't some Zeus have special external cooling fins to help with this?

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Mechs like the Commando and Awesome will have to wait until weight or BV is a factor is matchmaking. Hopefully they do that with Phase 3. But until such a time comes, these 2 Mechs are basically worthless.

[v4skunk]

Sorry but the Awesome 9M is one of the best mechs available.

[Roadbuster]

I wish more of them could equip better engines, not only the 9M. After the 9M and 8T I'm working with a 8V (wanted to pilot something I don't see every 2nd match).

I agree that speed should be an advantage, my Stalkers run with ~60kph too though, all while having better loadout. So to really improve the performance they should allow engines up to at least 340 for all variants.

[shotokan5]

when the beta was first introduced the Awesome was a sweet mech. Ya slow and big front easy to hit but since weapons have been changed they should put a bulls eye on the front. I am sure that some are still effective but every time I see it has overheated. perhaps the patch will help it regain its status.

[Lightfoot]

v4skunk, on 03 January 2013 - 07:40 AM, said:

Sorry but the Awesome 9M is one of the best mechs available.

So of course you are running the 3x ERPPCs? No? Mostly Medium Pulse Lasers? Right, my point exactly. So far from the Canon Awesome it's an absurdity.

Edited by Lightfoot, 03 January 2013 - 08:41 AM.

[Aldon]

The top engine for the normal awesome should be a 310 instead of a 290. That would balance it out.

The 9M Awesome is a killing machine if built correctly and piloted well. The 8Q can be a nasty ****** if the pilot is a good shot.

The learning curve on running an awesome without getting embarrassed is higher than the other 2 assaults.