104 replies to this topic

[BerryChunks]

Because people would become patently aware of the broken state of heat/armor.

[Shismar]

Almost no one would play stock only mechs as long as there is an option to play customized ones. Not even in a separate queue.

It is simply too much fun to build your own custom mech and take it to battle.

[Viper69]

Spheroid, on 11 January 2013 - 11:38 PM, said:

One post in five plus month = fail.

Maybe he waited to form an intelligent post unlike yourself. Grow up and do us all a favor and think before you type.

[Phades]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 January 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

You mean the forward observer for Fire Support? C3 won't have much affect on the game. We don't have range modifiers after all.

This would be solved if the data transmitted had ranged based on other mounted support equipment that existed in TT.

[FrostPaw]

Adridos, on 12 January 2013 - 07:26 AM, said:

It's simple, really.

Things are never that simple.

If we exclude my personal preference and yours

How do you stop teams or individual experienced stock mech players farming complete novices? It would be a reliable place to find novices since it's guaranteed to be where they all are.

How do you encourage players to move on to mechs they might want to spend money on and thus sustain the games life? Like it or not, we need people to spend money. People who stay in stock mechs are not customers in the current games design.

Finally the elephant in the room, how do you stop detracting from the custom mech player base with stock mech users?

If there are 5 stock mech users they won't find a rewarding stock mech game

If there are 11 custom mech users they won't find a rewarding custom mech game.

But at least right now they can both play together and have a full game where they might face a stock or custom mech.

When there are millions of people playing a game, every new match mode is a division, every localized server is a division, every hour in the day is a division. That's a huge thing when you don't have millions of players but your games design relies on needing a critical mass of players playing every minute 24/7 in order to create meaningful matches.

Edited by FrostPaw, 12 January 2013 - 07:50 AM.

[Thorn Hallis]

Darkaiser, on 12 January 2013 - 06:51 AM, said:

*snip*

Wont happen - and you know it.

[FrostBear]

I understand the ops minds, about tt and mwo at it is. Op, give the game time to evolve, hopefully the devs try their best after the stony startingroad we are on at the moment. Give MWO some time, if it gets a solid playerbase, and can finance it selfe and take a place on the market. I guess you will see, that the devs will surely also think of making other gamemodes. I would love to see MWO more in the old simulation style like in the novels, or as we played it in Roleplay weekends. It runs at the moment on Solaris style, every 2.5 sek you shoot and dissipate heat. Maybe one day, they make a, lets name it, MWO core mode, where you have to wait till your ac 20 reloads in 10 sec, or your ppcs, and have originial armor and the chassis are more rigid in costumisation, lets say like in TT ist expensive to refit a whole mech. I say maybe, i hope for it, me and my pals would love to fight in campaigns were you have longer reload cycles, and have to watch more carefully about dmg and when your big guns are ready to be wastet or not. Then Stock mechs are powerfull to, cause they are made for 10sec reload fights. At the moment, wie need lot of ammo, more armor and more shots. Its ok, its MWO at the beginning, it can be far more over time, and why it shouldnt become that. Give them time, its been long time since someone tryed to get the potatoes out of the fire and make another mw.
'
Sorry for the not perfect english, correct it as you wish.


Tai-i FrostBear Hails Kuria!

[Braggart]

I'm back.

I cover a little that people are commenting back about.

Dividing the player base. If the game has so few people playing that you have to worry about dividing the player base, then the game is already failing, and wont make it. Many games offer many many game types to choose from. Even older mechwarrior games offered Stock only as gameplay option. It was actually quite popular because of the same thing you see in this game. Terrible balance for custom mech designs. Everyone remembers the Scat with 12 small lasers in the right leg right? So far this game is just slightly better in that regard.

The only reason stock wouldnt work right now is because they increased the armor a crazy amount to make up for the fact that you can create horribly unbalanced mechs that would dominate you in a single volley. Now the damage that a stock mech deals is a joke compared to variants.

Now have a look at just the hunchback, and see how many variants there are, and then there are custom ones, which people could pay money for. You can easily monetize players who play stock, and i'm pretty sure that people would play both modes, not just the one exclusively. I would play stock primarily, but if my friends want to do a custom match, i would do it also.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hunchback

I have waited for the game to evolve. It has taken severe baby steps, and I only came on to post on the forums now because I am saddened. Hell they havent even added drop weights yet.

I will continue to jump on every once in a while to see if the game is something yet, but at the moment, i will not be spending any money, nor will i recommend it to friends. That is the big thing. They need to design a game worth our money.

Edited by Braggart, 12 January 2013 - 08:35 AM.

[Corvus Antaka]

around September we were much closer to stock. resets, no DHS, endosteel. half ammo. Double armour worked pretty good, and strategy was important, ammo based weapons had the risk of running out of ammo.

Currently ammo amounts might be a tad to generous.

halving heatscale & doubling dissapation could still fix big alphas & boating. heat neutral mechs currently already suffer almost 0 heat problems, would not massively buff them, but it would bring more risk in for alphas, and more forethought in building heat balanced mechs.

Given the PGI system, stock mechs would not work well, and as much as I want a stock mech gamemode, I think that we could fix the open class and pushing stock type mechs more once again with hardpoint changes where an erppc require 3 slots ala mech4.

Mechs would then be much more specialized again, more variety, and still functional. As of right now the hardpoint system is a bit bland and readily lends to minmaxing.

A stock game mode would be wonderful, but I would rather see PGI put towards a mech4 system that avoids the pitfalls of mech4 (6 LL energy boats).

before ECM I had a few "Stock" mechs, an awesome with 1 LL, 3 mediums, 2 SSRM2 and an LRM 20. this mech was fun and performed very well. I really enjoyed how stock type mechs worked so well at that point in time.

With recent patches and ECM and the stalker weve seen a big big shift to heavy boating, even worse than before, and a significant amount of this is due to the heat system and how forgiving and disfunctional it is.

Hopefully we start stepping in the other direction soon again.

[Vaneshi SnowCrash]

To be honest I can't see what actual harm another game mode would have. So far we've got precisely 2 as it stands.

And whilst yes, fine, Trial Mech's and what have you is fine but... weren't they supposed to be on rotation? That's normally how it works in such games. I haven't seen them rotate at all.

[Vassago Rain]

Adridos, on 12 January 2013 - 04:20 AM, said:

No, it failed because Microsoft asked a great deal from EA for the MW license. Microsoft being the greedy ******** they are asked for a highly exaggarated amount and EA showed them middle finger.

As far as success goes, the game was more successful than any MW to date and there were no whiners, nor cheese or horrible imbalances.

What a dreamland! I sure have never glossed over the developer sabotaged stock mechs available in the tabletop, or fielded only 'royal' SLDF mechs so I can shoot more! No, sir, if we make it all stock, there's no way people will take only the good stock mechs, or whine that some mechs just don't have any good stock loads for certain eras.

You truly are the gundam king.

Edited by Vassago Rain, 12 January 2013 - 09:20 AM.

[Adridos]

Vassago Rain, on 12 January 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:

You truly are the gundam king.

And you a "the most off-topic picture ever made," title owner.

[Marcus Tanner]

Stormwolf, on 12 January 2013 - 06:08 AM, said:

- Remove that zero crit/tonnage C3 system, people should only be able to share targeting data with C3 installed.

Mechs don't need C3 to share targeting data. Every mech does that.

C3 helps you aim.

[Zynk]

A stock mech only assault mode would be interesting.

You queue up and server side does a random mech selection for both sides based on BV [or a total tonnage of 480 -2 light - 2 med - 2 hvy - 2 assault] and then drops everyone, you would not know what mech or variant until you dropped into game.

[Vassago Rain]

Adridos, on 12 January 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

And you a "the most off-topic picture ever made," title owner.

[Butane9000]

Actually that would not be a terrible game mode. It would definitely be a challenge. However they would have to open up all stock mechs for it to be viable instead of just the 4 standard trial mechs.

[Zynk]

Butane9000, on 12 January 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

Actually that would not be a terrible game mode. It would definitely be a challenge. However they would have to open up all stock mechs for it to be viable instead of just the 4 standard trial mechs.

Agree forgot to add that but it would teach heat management and how to conserve ammo.

[Vassago Rain]

Butane9000, on 12 January 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

Actually that would not be a terrible game mode. It would definitely be a challenge. However they would have to open up all stock mechs for it to be viable instead of just the 4 standard trial mechs.

The mode itself would be as empty as the 8 manz, which are only slightly more alive than your average living legends server.

[Yokaiko]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 12 January 2013 - 09:10 AM, said:

Mechs would then be much more specialized again, more variety, and still functional. As of right now the hardpoint system is a bit bland and readily lends to minmaxing.

A stock game mode would be wonderful, but I would rather see PGI put towards a mech4 system that avoids the pitfalls of mech4 (6 LL energy boats).
.

Right now the map design and the heat make it so that the stock loadouts are completely useless.

Look at the Dragons in TT they would be decent harrassers, in MWO they are crap, UAC5 with 25 rounds of ammo? What the hell are you going to do with that? The LRMs 2 tons.....of LRM 10, enough to tickle most mechs.

....and you only get to fire at TT rates because they are cannon loadouts.

Yeah, no thanks.

As it stands there is really no need to ever build a long range mech, you HAVE to build close range because from the middle of most maps you can shoot to the edges with a medium laser.

[Stormwolf]

Marcus Tanner, on 12 January 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

Mechs don't need C3 to share targeting data. Every mech does that.

They actually don't, C3 was designed for that specific purpose. Now spotting does help allied units, but It'll only help LRM boats and artillery.

Marcus Tanner, on 12 January 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

C3 helps you aim.

That's what a targeting computer is for.