949 replies to this topic

[Mavek]

Henchman 24, on 26 May 2012 - 05:11 AM, said:

Oh please, there's no impunity there. Yeah, they can be annoying in the hands of a good pilot. No, they aren't OP, and yes, you will need some support to keep them at bay.

This is all part of a combined arms game. Luckily, MWO is a little simpler, and should be easier to deal with in that regard.
Funny how you mention the hill camp(which so far is in EVERY mech game, just abused in MW4), yet complain about the air units that discourage such behavior.

I bet you think BattleArmor is OP too huh?

I think Red's point is that Aero/BA can be easily exploited in MWLL by fair to moderate players, and the 'expert' exploiters are practically unstoppable while you are in your mech that cant shoot straight up, or in your mech that has nothing but heavy/slow weapons. So then you take the time to field a tank specifically geared to deal with these guys, which nobody that signed up to play MECHWARRIOR is really interested in doing. Anyone that plays MWLL and takes a tank/aero/ba and exploits them is basically saying, "Mechwarrior is stupid...see how easy it is to take down an Atlas with a cheap non-mech unit!"

That said, most of the blame resides with the MWLL game designers that havent worked out the bugs and actual buy-values with these units. This is an online game, and any exploitable 'game-mechanic' will be exploited by the less scrupulous. I think the majority of us hope that the MWO game designers will get the game mechanics worked out so that the guys that must cheese-to-win will go play something else.

So to the point of the post, what I do not want to see is anything resembling the very easy to exploit and undervalued (not overpowered) units in MWLL. I dont mind aero/tanks/ba, but tanks in CBT were squishy, aerotech couldnt hover like vtols, vtols were dead in one shot, and BA werent ant-sized, impossible to hit units with more firepower than most light mechs.

The other thing I dont want to see is legging...so Im hoping that the game-play design will discourage it.

[Mavek]

Cruxshadow, on 30 May 2012 - 05:58 PM, said:

It is almost hate pop tarting as much as I hate swirlies of death.

Whats wrong with pop tarts? Just shoot them. My favorite kills are the ones where the guy's mech explodes in mid-air.

Looks like if you have a scout in your lance, you will know where the pop tarts are sitting behind the hill already. Even better, if someone in your lance has eyes on them, your lance can LRM them behind the hill, too...

It also looks like the maps are going to have lots of cover, which means lots of pop tarts, and lots of chances to pop the pop tarts.

[UncleKulikov]

I want the weapons to be balanced against each other, independent of relative cost. That means that Autocannons should have some advantage over Gauss weapons, whether it be recoil or charge time or fire rate.

If weapons aren't balanced in this way, it will shift from buying the biggest mech like in previous games, to simply equipping the highest tier equipment. That doesn't sound fun to me, being forced to use certain equipment to stay competitive.

[Evinthal]

Rejarial Galatan, on 30 May 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

I am no more scared to fight 1 on 1 than any one else. I do not know why everyone thinks that because I champion the CF in ANY form, it would seem that way. Call it what ever you want. Coolant Pods, Coolant Flush, Coolant Rain, Coolant Cola, I dont care really. I call it coolant flush, because no matter if its from a built in tank or a bolted in pod, it is a flush of coolant across the heat sinks. Look, I do not care if anyone uses it, no matter what form it takes, but, the fact of the matter is, Coolant Pods/Trucks are canon, I do not care what any of you think, if it is in the rule books for application to the Table Top game, that makes it canon. Canon comes from the rule books. The idea you cannot compare a coolant pod to case is silly. Case is there to mitigate the threat from ammo explosions inside the mech. that is, as far as I can tell, something we can all agree on. What I find funny is that people cannot see the fact that, while the CP are far far riskier, they are there to mitigate for a very short instant the heat from energy weapons.
It is the same thing, a mitigation system, with a very short life span once engaged, where as CASE will hang out in the mech even after the ammo is depleted.

Yes, coolant pods and trucks are canon, thank you for pointing something I already knew out to me.

Snide remarks aside.

About CASE hanging around after the ammo is depleted: Big deal. If there isn't any ammunition left in the bin then CASE does nothing for me anymore, short of mitigating the damage from a gauss rifle exploding. But hey since we are talking about rules that are considered "optional" and technology that was considered "advanced or experimental" as coolant pods are, then I can just power down the capacitors on my gauss rifles to prevent this from happening as that is another "optional" rule.

I think where we are ALL getting mixed up with each other here is you are using coolant FLUSH instead of coolant POD.

Semantics, maybe but here is the thing: the word coolant followed by the word FLUSH bring visions of MW4's coolant system rushing back into the heads of those of us arguing against it. It was weightless, took no critcal slots/space to mount on your 'mech and had no draw back other then being a limited use thing, and is generally seen as a slap to the face of the battletech lore.

Had you used the term coolant pod, those of us versed in the equipment and rules of the TT might have looked at your opinion differently

[Major Bill Curtis]

Mavek, on 30 May 2012 - 08:04 PM, said:

Whats wrong with pop tarts? Just shoot them. My favorite kills are the ones where the guy's mech explodes in mid-air.

Looks like if you have a scout in your lance, you will know where the pop tarts are sitting behind the hill already. Even better, if someone in your lance has eyes on them, your lance can LRM them behind the hill, too...

It also looks like the maps are going to have lots of cover, which means lots of pop tarts, and lots of chances to pop the pop tarts.

The Narc beacon will be the bane of pop-tarts. Never fly when you've got a Narc attached

[Rejarial Galatan]

You may be right, but, thing is, I think that sort of system, be it a pod system or a truck or an MFB with huge fire hoses spraying the mech down, I dont care how its done, just that it should be. It would be like leaving out ERPPCs because they are way potent. While, I think at launch, they may be a bit much to hope for, I think at some point, just like the Clans, they should be placed in, even if its as a purchasable option from the mechlab ya know?

[Rodney28021]

They should put Coolant Flush pods as pay only items and limited to only one use per battle, they have negative side to them so that balances enough. I do want to see NPC infantry, battlearmor, tanks and air strikes, just make them not as effective. I don't like mini nuke engine explosions, that was only in the novels. I don't want Hackers and Jumping alpha strikes. There should be major disruption in any aiming while you are jumping and limit weapons in arms to fire while jumping, that was why you got plus 3 to target number while jumping in CBT. Also put a short recharge timer on jumpjets so jumpers cannot be bunny hopping.

Edited by Rodney28021, 30 May 2012 - 08:54 PM.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Rodney, your idea smacks of the start of Pay To Win. I dont want to be or sound mean here, but, this is a path the game cannot start down if it wants to remain on its core pillars, one of which is, you can not buy tactical advantage. and hate em or love em, a CP does provide an instant of tactical advantage when used at the exact right second.

[Evinthal]

Rodney28021, on 30 May 2012 - 08:46 PM, said:

They should put Coolant Flush pods as pay only items...

No...just...no. Pay 2 Win is not a good thing.

Edited by Evinthal, 30 May 2012 - 09:01 PM.

[Killalot]

Another Mad Cat MKII, that ******* had jump jets........ and with the ability to equiped TWO gauss rifles

Or a option for unlimited ammo, and no heat. Made the game boring....

[Max Liao]

I would so take a team of 5 other people (for the required 6 crew members) and pilot a Coolant Truck.

[Volthorne]

Rejarial Galatan, on 30 May 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

You may be right, but, thing is, I think that sort of system, be it a pod system or a truck or an MFB with huge fire hoses spraying the mech down, I dont care how its done, just that it should be. It would be like leaving out ERPPCs because they are way potent. While, I think at launch, they may be a bit much to hope for, I think at some point, just like the Clans, they should be placed in, even if its as a purchasable option from the mechlab ya know?

I hope you plan on doing nothing major after you flush that coolant from your 'mech that has a coolant pod equipped. And by nothing major I mean even walking. Because you just completely ****** up your 'mech's coolant system.

And how is leaving out coolant pods like leaving out ERPPCs? Apples to dragon-fruit, man.

[Tincan Nightmare]

Buddahcjcc, on 30 May 2012 - 07:13 AM, said:

so what about the other two?

Ya nvm, theyre all lvl 3 (and the last one is from the new guys at Catalyst) so yeah theyre non tournament. Are they planning to only include tournament rules stuff in the game here?

snipped middle for own thread

But still Coolant Pod is not something Micro$oft or Activision "made up" for MW3/4

Where were coolant pods in MW3/4? I don't remember seeing them in the available equipment I could buy and install in my mechs in the mechlab. Now there was a mechanic called coolant flushing, that every mech had without having to mount it like described under coolant pods (that has been brought up numerous times without complaint by anyone against coolant flushing.) Now with flushing you could'nt get a critical hit with it, like with a coolant pod. Nor did you have to sacrifice tonnage to it, like you do with coolant pods. And coolant pods are not 'instant' heat removers, like coolant flushing, they just make your heat sinks run better for about 10 seconds. So again where were coolant pods in MW3/4? All we had was that button you could push that drained your coolant and dropped your heat in about a second or two, that was called flushing. If they wish to put coolant pods in the game, where you have to decide if you want a coolant pod, a medium laser, a ton of armor, or a ton of ammo, and that it can explode doing internal damage if it receives a critical hit (just like described in the source material) them I'm all for it. What I am not for, is a system that makes heat disappear with the push of a magical button.

Considering clan tech and mechs are going to be in the game eventually, consider what you could do if they include the Black Hawk/Nova in its primary configuration, and there is coolant flushing. This mech mounts 12 clan ER med. lasers. Thats 84 points of damage, thats only held in check by its 18 DS heat sinks. If it fires all 12, it generates 60 points of heat, of which the sinks can dissipate 36, leaving the mech right on the verge of shutdown and the pilot having to hit the shutdown override, OR just hit the coolant flush to get rid of all that hit and fire again as soon as the lasers recharge. Do you see the problem here with coolant flush now, in how it unbalances the issue of heat. Granted with the hardpoint system a machine that can carry 12 med. lasers may never surface, but heat is a balancing issue for the lightness and lower space taken up by energy weapons in comparison to ballistic weapons. Not to mention a limiting factor in how and what type of weapons you can employ. Otherwise a player can take an Awesome, which comes with a sm. laser, 3 PPC's, and 28 heat sinks, and just rip out half of those heat sinks and install more weapons, because they can make the heat they generate 'just go away'. Even if you can use it only a limited amount of times in a match, that still means you could get in a heavy amount of damage early on, just to scale back your rate of fire once you've used it up.

[Karl Streiger]

Tincan Nightmare, on 30 May 2012 - 11:23 PM, said:

Considering clan tech and mechs are going to be in the game eventually, consider what you could do if they include the Black Hawk/Nova in its primary configuration, and there is coolant flushing. This mech mounts 12 clan ER med. lasers. Thats 84 points of damage, thats only held in check by its 18 DS heat sinks. If it fires all 12, it generates 60 points of heat, of which the sinks can dissipate 36, leaving the mech right on the verge of shutdown and the pilot having to hit the shutdown override,

Thanks for a reminder... don't want to see a less strict heat system. Your heat level is 60 after firing the laser...the heat sinks need there time to remove that heat...so you have a automatic shut-down or worse. No matter if there is a magical coolant or not.
In solaris 7 games the nova is total crap...you can fire only 1-2 laser a round without overheating. Firing all 12 would deal 240 heat...and it will last very long to reduce heat (even if your mech survive)

[Xuvios]

Hyperius, on 27 May 2012 - 12:06 AM, said:

Well I suppose you could try to block IP adresses but people can get around that too without much more difficulty.

Block the MAC address, haha... if only...

[John Clavell]

I don't want to see no 'Dancing' emotes

[MajorBludd]

I'd hate to see rental only items I know some F2P games are rental only however I feel like that limits the life of the game and will just turn the game into a sea of same spec mechs beacuse players dont feel like re-renting their camo paints.

a good example of a game thats rental only is Brickforce (think Minecraft + tf2) the longest rental is 2 years as of a few weeks ago but before that everything was at best 3 months and the cost of the game is not cheap given its rather meh game play.

Battle feild Heroes do both and its quite common to see quite a wide range in characters however... over time their have been quite a few Pay 2 Win items like Sniper Rifles that can insta kill while normal rifles take 2 shots etc

[Bloodycrow]

Mavek, on 30 May 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

I think Red's point is that Aero/BA can be easily exploited in MWLL by fair to moderate players, and the 'expert' exploiters are practically unstoppable while you are in your mech that cant shoot straight up, or in your mech that has nothing but heavy/slow weapons. So then you take the time to field a tank specifically geared to deal with these guys, which nobody that signed up to play MECHWARRIOR is really interested in doing. Anyone that plays MWLL and takes a tank/aero/ba and exploits them is basically saying, "Mechwarrior is stupid...see how easy it is to take down an Atlas with a cheap non-mech unit!"

That said, most of the blame resides with the MWLL game designers that havent worked out the bugs and actual buy-values with these units. This is an online game, and any exploitable 'game-mechanic' will be exploited by the less scrupulous. I think the majority of us hope that the MWO game designers will get the game mechanics worked out so that the guys that must cheese-to-win will go play something else.

So to the point of the post, what I do not want to see is anything resembling the very easy to exploit and undervalued (not overpowered) units in MWLL. I dont mind aero/tanks/ba, but tanks in CBT were squishy, aerotech couldnt hover like vtols, vtols were dead in one shot, and BA werent ant-sized, impossible to hit units with more firepower than most light mechs.

The other thing I dont want to see is legging...so Im hoping that the game-play design will discourage it.

What is it you mean by "exploitable"? Your description seems to imply that simply playing BA or aerospace in MWLL is exploiting the game somehow.

And you talk as if the mod is finished, while in truth things such as asset pricing and bug fixing are constantly being worked on. Voluntarily, I might add.

There's so much wrong with your post, I'm not even sure where to begin. Tanks wouldn't be fun if they died as easy as in CBT. Aeros already have their flight mechanics redone and don't hover at all. And BA are hardly ant-sized, are the slowest thing on the battlefield, don't even have near the firepower of the cheapest, lightest asset and die with a single well-placed shot or a splattering of missile fire.

[Clay Pigeon]

Minimum ranges on weapon systems. Sure it works for dicerollangames but it sucks for video games.

[RevolutionaryC]

i dont want to see server full..hate that.