134 replies to this topic

[PANZERBUNNY]

Apnu, on 31 January 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

The clans won't take over the IS. That's because PGI will be controlling the borders of the factions when CW comes online. At best, even before the clans arrive, we'll only be able to marginally change the traditional borders of the houses. There will be no big pushes to plant a Davion flag on Tharkad like there was in MPBT:3025, or the time when House Liao almost took over Davion space, or some unholy alliance between Marik and Kurita to wipe out the Lyrans.

PGI won't allow assaults and planetary take overs in the deep country of each faction. At least not right away. Its all in the CW documentation on the forums here and its been said by Garth several times in various NGNG podcasts.

When the clans come, and if we have CW running, they will have a fixed territory and will only be able to launch border skirmishes like the rest of us.

As for the clan tech and stuff like that, I can't even speculate how they will handle it. If the game is to be fair, they need to give the Inner Sphere some kind of advantage to balance out the clan tech.

Maybe that's got something to do with the ELO. Maybe they'll give IS factions a tonnage advantage or a c-bill advantage (and odd thought because the Clans warrior caste has no economy). But I do know this: Human players, playing this game, will never willingly subscribe to the Clans combat doctrine -- the bidding process and the 1-on-1 combat rules. They'll ton up with the best of them and focus fire with Daishis and MadCats that are all min/maxed with omni tech.

PGI has to know that's going to happen.

They have stated that Certain Major planets can't be taken. They have never said that borders will be "maintained".

That would be THE WORST idea ever if they want any semblance of organized, challenging play.

Kick the training wheels off for Community warfare.

Matchmaker is there for a reason. Let the devs spoon feed players in that part of the game, not Galactic Conquest.

Sadistic Savior, on 31 January 2013 - 09:42 AM, said:

Make Clan MC only, and expensive. Problem solved.

Don't encourage that. You should be pounded with a phone book or garden hose.

[Sadistic Savior]

PANZERBUNNY, on 31 January 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

Don't encourage that. You should be pounded with a phone book or garden hose.

LOL, why not? Why are free players entitled to play any mech they want?

There is already precedent for this. There are mechs in the game that are MC only right now. And this model has worked in other games already...Star Trek Online comes to mind.

If it is a choice between MC-only clan stuff or not having it at all to preserve balance, I say screw the free players. They are not paying for the game anyway.

[Joseph Mallan]

Sadistic Savior, on 31 January 2013 - 09:38 AM, said:

Why do IS players need access to Clan tech? I have never heard the DEVs mention this as even an implied possibility, and as many have pointed out, that is certainly not what happened in the Battletech Universe in this time period either.

People can pick Clan or IS, not a mix of both. If you pick Clan, you accept the ratio disadvantage. How is this not balanced?

cause battlefield salvage has long been a part of this universe of games. now understand we don't "need" it but the spoils of war and all that gibberish.

[Bishop Steiner]

Sadistic Savior, on 31 January 2013 - 09:42 AM, said:

Make Clan MC only, and expensive. Problem solved.

new problem started.

"P2W"

[CDLord HHGD]

Death Mallet, on 31 January 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

Matchmaker
Background: According to the fluff, Clan never drops with more than half the Inner Sphere resources. So just make it that way in the game.
Game Mechanic: Matchmaker will match 8 IS mechs against 4 Clan mechs for any game involving Clan tech.

It should stick with the fluff too though. A Clan "lance" is 5 mechs. So it should be 5v8 or 10v12. Not exactly half or equal, but IS is supposed to get our butts kicked for a while.

Death Mallet, on 31 January 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

Targeting
Background: Clan mechs tend to fight 1-1.
Game Mechanic: Any mech targeted via 'R' by a Clan mech cannot be targeted by any other Clan mech until the target has been broken

Interesting, I'd like to see this tested.

[Sadistic Savior]

Bishop Steiner, on 31 January 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

new problem started.

"P2W"

Um...how is it pay to win if you are at a numerical disadvantage every time you use the mech?

Joseph Mallan, on 31 January 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

cause battlefield salvage has long been a part of this universe of games. now understand we don't "need" it but the spoils of war and all that gibberish.

As has been pointed out, the canon does not recognize battlefield salvage from Clan mechs because the technology is different. And you do not gain item-specific salvage in the actual game anyway...you gain CBill equivalent of the salvage.

So I see no reason why clan weapons should be allowed as IS salvage. The game doesn't require it, and the canon doesn't require it. So whats the problem?

[Mike Silva]

Sadistic Savior, on 31 January 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

LOL, why not? Why are free players entitled to play any mech they want?

There is already precedent for this. There are mechs in the game that are MC only right now. And this model has worked in other games already...Star Trek Online comes to mind.

If it is a choice between MC-only clan stuff or not having it at all to preserve balance, I say screw the free players. They are not paying for the game anyway.

Because it has been stated over and over and over again that this isn't pay-to-win. Reserving superior technology for those who pay real cash to play is just that, pay-to-win.

Your attitude concerning the free players needs an adjustment. Those free players are filling games and enhancing the experience for those who do choose to pay. Without those "freeloaders" the popularity of the game would suffer and possibly die.

[Elkarlo]

I am wondering what you are talking about?
*looking at the Kalender" ahh Next Patch is someway ahead and we have most of the ECM Issues solved by Netcode fixes.

Okey first of all, when i am not wrong we won't see Clans before... March the 13th And then only as Concept art. When the Developers goes another round they will be Mech 25... that would be July or so.

And we still have 6 Mechs to work up on release. This Means First Clan Mech be introduced ( When PGI is working on them already secretly etc) would be Octobre 2013. Which would be sound compared to the BT Timeline.

So at least 6 Month ! to go.

Clans will be introduced after CW has been introduced.
And then we will have a much better Matchmaker, which will compensate for the whole stuff etc...

For the interchanging Clanstuff into IS Builds, that didn't happen before the Victories of Tukayyid/Luthien. Because it was to few Salvage out there. MW2: Mercs got this wrong. So when PGI stays to the Timeline, the ClanMechs will Steamroll IS Builds in very Tough Fights till May the 1st 2015. Before this no Clan Tech was avaible for IS Mechs in great Scale. (The Battle of Tukayyid and Luthien gave enough Salvage for learning how to incorperate Clantech.)

So it is a little early to made a head to balance CLANTECH when we don't have balanced IS Tech, different Assault Chassis etc..

So give the Dev's time for Lobby Matchmaking CW etc, then we will see how Clan's will be worked up.

Which would mean that the Matchmaking etc will favour in Numbers the IS Players and Team. As PGI will

Edited by Elkarlo, 31 January 2013 - 09:59 AM.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Sadistic Savior, on 31 January 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

LOL, why not? Why are free players entitled to play any mech they want?

There is already precedent for this. There are mechs in the game that are MC only right now. And this model has worked in other games already...Star Trek Online comes to mind.

If it is a choice between MC-only clan stuff or not having it at all to preserve balance, I say screw the free players. They are not paying for the game anyway.

I just can't even spend the time to explain it to you if you can't figure it out for yourself.

The reason we have a decent amount of "targets" now and for the future is because of free players.

[Bishop Steiner]

Sadistic Savior, on 31 January 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

Um...how is it pay to win if you are at a numerical disadvantage every time you use the mech?

Firstly, we are assuming that there WILL be an enforced Numerical Advantage.

Secondly, because anytime the entitled, spoiled, soiled, and vocal casual F2P twitch gamer sees anyhting they don't have instant free access to, it's "P2W".

HAven't you been following these forums?

Founders? P2W
Hero Mechs? P2W
Premium Time? P2W
Egregiously overpriced and limited Paint and Cockpit doohickeys? P2W

ZOUNDS MAN!!! Where have you been the last 6-9 months!?!?!?!?

(OK, I might be making the last one up.. I hope )

And thirdly, because in that case, it actually IS P2W, because of the points made by PanzerBunny (dammit, did I just agree with the guy twice in one day?!?!?!)

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 31 January 2013 - 10:00 AM.

[Sadistic Savior]

Bishop Steiner, on 31 January 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

Firstly, we are assuming that there WILL be an enforced Numerical Advantage.

A safe assumption. It would not be hard to do IMO.

Bishop Steiner, on 31 January 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

Secondly, because anytime the entitled, spoiled, soiled, and vocal casual F2P twitch gamer sees anyhting they don't have instant free access to, it's "P2W".

So what? Like I said, they are not paying for the game anyway. And we already have restricted MC-only mechs in this game. And the same thing has happened in other F2P games for a long time. This is not new.

If they could make or break a game, they would have done so already. So screw em. If this were the old days when everyone was premium by default, I might feel differently. But I do not agree that Free players are entitled to every single item in the game for free.

EDIT - City of Villains was an excellent example...you had to pay extra to play as a villain. And people did it.

Bishop Steiner, on 31 January 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

And thirdly, because in that case, it actually IS P2W

If you completely ignore that Clan mechs will always be at a numerical disadvantage, then I agree it is P2W. Otherwise, it is obviously not P2W.

Edited by Sadistic Savior, 31 January 2013 - 10:06 AM.

[Jer Me]

Might be a silly and dumb idea.

But how about instead the Clan comes into the games at random as Bots, who's purpose is to destory ALL Inner Sphere mechs (players)

Basically for the first little while, no player's get CLAN tech, and there will still be two teams, and one winner. Just at random games the Clan appears in the game just to destroy everyone. Player's can have an, Enemy of my enemy is my friend...for now approach, or simply not.

The winning side then gets to acquire random CLAN tech as salvage depending on kills/kill assists. More damage you do, kills you get among the Clan Mech's the more greater the chances of scrap. IF your side wins. If the Clan Bot's destroy everyone, and win the match. no one gets the Tech.

Or Perhaps toss a bone to Founder Member's (of which I'm not) and allow them first crack at the CLAN tech and come in as the 3rd team to destroy everyone else IE: non Founder member's.

Then in a month or two, let eveyone else get a crack at it.

Anyways, just a thought.

[Sadistic Savior]

PANZERBUNNY, on 31 January 2013 - 09:57 AM, said:

The reason we have a decent amount of "targets" now and for the future is because of free players.

There will always be plenty of free players as long as the core game remains fun. Lots of other MMOs have already proven this.

[Apnu]

PANZERBUNNY, on 31 January 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

They have stated that Certain Major planets can't be taken. They have never said that borders will be "maintained".

That would be THE WORST idea ever if they want any semblance of organized, challenging play.

Kick the training wheels off for Community warfare.

Matchmaker is there for a reason. Let the devs spoon feed players in that part of the game, not Galactic Conquest.

No, they said that in the beginning control of the factions and the borders would be maintained by them. Then, slowly, over time, it will be released to community control and eventually we will have full control of the known galaxy. On the first day of CW we won't be able to blitz on one faction and take half of its worlds away. Like I witnessed in MPBT:3025 and several times in MegaMek's public campaign.

So it will come in stages. And the Clans will be a faction as well, I think this is PGI's plan to keep the Clans from overwhelming the Inner Sphere.

[Sadistic Savior]

Mike Silva, on 31 January 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

Because it has been stated over and over and over again that this isn't pay-to-win. Reserving superior technology for those who pay real cash to play is just that, pay-to-win.

If you are forced to play at a numerical disadvantage, how is that Pay to Win?

I am still waiting for someone to answer that question.

Mike Silva, on 31 January 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

Your attitude concerning the free players needs an adjustment. Those free players are filling games and enhancing the experience for those who do choose to pay. Without those "freeloaders" the popularity of the game would suffer and possibly die.

Expecting to have access to everything for free is completely unreasonable. Someone has to pay the bills.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Bishop Steiner, on 31 January 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

Firstly, we are assuming that there WILL be an enforced Numerical Advantage.

Secondly, because anytime the entitled, spoiled, soiled, and vocal casual F2P twitch gamer sees anyhting they don't have instant free access to, it's "P2W".

HAven't you been following these forums?

Founders? P2W
Hero Mechs? P2W
Premium Time? P2W
Egregiously overpriced and limited Paint and Cockpit doohickeys? P2W

ZOUNDS MAN!!! Where have you been the last 6-9 months!?!?!?!?

(OK, I might be making the last one up.. I hope )

And thirdly, because in that case, it actually IS P2W, because of the points made by PanzerBunny (dammit, did I just agree with the guy twice in one day?!?!?!)

There was once a day in the distant past (in dog years) where many things exiting my food tube were happy, cheerful and beneficial to all things MWO.

I'm not sure why Founder is P2W. I usually lose in my Founder mechs.

Apnu, on 31 January 2013 - 10:11 AM, said:

No, they said that in the beginning control of the factions and the borders would be maintained by them. Then, slowly, over time, it will be released to community control and eventually we will have full control of the known galaxy. On the first day of CW we won't be able to blitz on one faction and take half of its worlds away. Like I witnessed in MPBT:3025 and several times in MegaMek's public campaign.

So it will come in stages. And the Clans will be a faction as well, I think this is PGI's plan to keep the Clans from overwhelming the Inner Sphere.

Who cares if the map is blitzed? Those people log off. Job well done and then the Houses fight out Hardcore from their invulnerable planets and many decent battles are had.

Never a fan of training wheels.

[Apnu]

Bishop Steiner, on 31 January 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

Firstly, we are assuming that there WILL be an enforced Numerical Advantage.

Secondly, because anytime the entitled, spoiled, soiled, and vocal casual F2P twitch gamer sees anyhting they don't have instant free access to, it's "P2W".

HAven't you been following these forums?

Founders? P2W
Hero Mechs? P2W
Premium Time? P2W
Egregiously overpriced and limited Paint and Cockpit doohickeys? P2W

ZOUNDS MAN!!! Where have you been the last 6-9 months!?!?!?!?

(OK, I might be making the last one up.. I hope )

And thirdly, because in that case, it actually IS P2W, because of the points made by PanzerBunny (dammit, did I just agree with the guy twice in one day?!?!?!)

I dunno about you, but when I have my coconut monkey rolling in a Phreaken painted mech I have 9 kills and 2,000 pts of damage, and never leave my drop zone. I think its the coconut monkey, but the paint really makes it happen in style.

[Apnu]

PANZERBUNNY, on 31 January 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

Who cares if the map is blitzed? Those people log off. Job well done and then the Houses fight out Hardcore from their invulnerable planets and many decent battles are had.

Never a fan of training wheels.

Pretty much the whole community who isn't on the winning faction's side. Because the Devs would be forced to reset the universe. Then even the winning faction will be pissed off because all of their hard work and excellent strategy will have been for nothing. Its loose-loose.

[Lukoi Banacek]

It's pretty clear that MWO doesn't feel tied to TT rules and since we have no idea what they intend to do to implement clans and clan tech into the game and we have no indications from them on when they would even consider opening those options to players (no legitimate indications at any rate), all of the very specific fixes (math, TT rules for damage, heat, armor etc) for problems we cannot actually identify yet in terms of balance are fairly worthless.

Why sweat this stuff. The Devs are collecting metrics and feedback for issues currently ingame. I seriously doubt they are reading a thread like this to look for clues on how to prevent armageddon....aka introduction of the clans.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Sadistic Savior, on 31 January 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

There will always be plenty of free players as long as the core game remains fun. Lots of other MMOs have already proven this.

The game quickly becomes "not fun" when super Clan Mechs that people could say, only pay for, stomp their faces each and every single match.