805 replies to this topic

[Alexander Steel]

If he also had a timberwolf using an ER PPC would have destroyed your mech's head without needing to roll.

9 armor + 3 internals vs a 15 point damage weapon. It's why Gauss Rifles, Clan ER PPCs, and AC20's are so scary on the tabletop they all have the 1 in 36 chance of insta-gibbing whatever mech they hit with the weapon.

[Furniture]

Nobody really says they like the Clans because "oh they have the best tech and the best armies blah blah blah." You know what it really comes down to? Aesthetics. People love the look of a lot of the Clan designs, which tend to have a completely different appearance to IS designs. That's really the most fundamental reason people are initially attracted to the Clans. They warm to the lore of them afterwards, but the initial draw is the appearance of their machines, especially the 3050 "Sweet 16" iconic Omnimechs and the appearance of the Elemental Battle Armor infantry.

As for fluff, that's a big reason why a lot of people don't like the Clans. The Clans use cloning and genetic engineering to produce their frontline soldiers - subjects which are taboo to many more conservative fans IRL. Their trueborn warriors are trained and raised from birth to be soldiers and fight in the role selected for them by their genetics (mechwarrior, aerospace pilot, elemental infantry, tank crewman, etc) and their success or failure in becoming a warrior is based on brutal and sometimes fatal meritocracy - another political reason some would hate them. Their society revolves around warfare - the soldiers are the focus and all other professions, be it technician, scientist, or even a cook exist to directly or indirectly support the war effort. A scientist might have a hobby as an artist or a musician, and so could a warrior in Clan society, but their main purpose is war and the support of it - one designs machines/technology/infrastructure while the other trains and fights for the Clan.

This kind of society is, quite frankly, not relatable to many fans, whose perspective is from our IRL society. So they dislike the Clans as a faction. On the other hand, the IS factions are all loosely based on IRL countries/cultures/people. Davion and Steiner are future Space America and Europe, Kurita is space feudal Japan, House Liao is future Space Soviet Russia and China, etc. Their people talk the same way as we do, do the same jobs as we do, even have the same religions that we do. So for fans that are uncomfortable with the science fiction, alien unfamiliarity of Clan culture, the IS lore gives them a warm, friendly, relatable faction to identify with for many potential reasons.

[Alexander Steel]

Furniture, on 14 February 2015 - 10:13 AM, said:

Nobody really says they like the Clans because "oh they have the best tech and the best armies blah blah blah."

Nobody really says they buy Playboy because they like looking at naked women with big hooties either.

Edited by Alexander Steel, 14 February 2015 - 10:39 AM.

[kka]

The arrival of the clan abruptly unbalanced the game by bringing in way better mechs than the IS. PGI has tried to balance this by quirks. There has been some success, but much is to be done.

Clan mechs are quite balanced among other clan mechs. There is a great variety of good builds and chassis. However, IS is unbalanced among IS, because the quirks (caused by the clan) are not balanced.

The clan disturbed the balance of the game substantially. It will take a long time to fix this. This is why I dislike clan.

[Beik Ross Norst]

for me it goes back to the late '80's when they were first introduced into the board game, it unbalanced everything until lostech. And I liked the old almost dark age feel of the game before clans, you wouldn't risk losing that mech if it was the only one you had and it kept you out of the trenches. Clans turned the board game into death match (eh like MWO) where mechs were more like jet fighters than armour handed down from father to son. So personally I just have a dislike of everything clan / lostech.

[KursedVixen]

it seems to me that it comes mainly from the reasons that have been stated ,though I actually enjoy the clans and hate the inner spher aside from a select few items.

But i think the main reason is

1. clans were introduced into the actual game later and ruined the purist game as stated before

2.clans invaded, and despite the fact that they are essnetially the star league reborn not many people seem to see what they came from and just see them as invaders.

I honestly have no idea why people hate the clans it's like hating the star league for existing since that's kinda what they are.

I'd just would like to note that people seem to not understand the diffrence between the indiviual clans like people treat all people of a certain trait the same.... But really people should look into the lore and understand the Crusader and Warden politics and the later Agressor and bastion politics.....

Also i feel people completely ignore the major contributions some clans have made to the inner sphere, without the invasion many inner sphere technologies would likely not exist. Also Comstar was perfectly fine with Clans invading untill a certain Clan Wolf Khan told them "hey we want Terra."

Edited by KursedVixen, 19 August 2022 - 07:19 PM.

[Centauri78]

For some context: I started playing BattleTech 2nd Edition in 1988 (I was 10 at the time. Yes, I'm old.) My first introduction to BattleTech lore was the Warrior Trilogy by Michael A. Stackpole, and the Technical Readout (TRO) 3025. I fell in love with the lore and art from TRO 3025, which included the original Unseen (Griffin, Shadow Hawk, Wolverine, Wasp, Stinger, Archer, Warhammer, Marauder, Rifleman, Thunderbolt, and Phoenix Hawk) with their initial Anime inspired art. I was a huge fan of Robotech at that time, and in particular, I gravitated towards the Phoenix Hawk, because it was very similar to Rick Hunter's Skull One Veritech from Robotech. And to this day, the Phoenix Hawk is my favorite BattleMech because it's the Mech that got me into this amazing hobby.

I wouldn't say I hate the Clans. It's more the fact that I love the tabletop game and lore of the Inner Sphere prior to the introduction of the Clans. Some of it comes from the nostalgia of fond memories from that time, but I feel like Classic BattleTech tabletop between Inner Sphere forces with the original rules from the 80s was pretty amazing. Inner Sphere Mechs were slow, inefficient, did lots of damage, but could easily overheat if not used appropriately, and become overwhelmed if not used tactically. Elegantly simple, but loads of fun.

When the Clans were introduced, they were overpowered, though that was intentional, giving them absurd advantages over Inner Sphere Mech forces. The problem was, there were not really any systems in place back then like we have now with Battle Value 2.0. So if forces are calculated by weight alone, as they usually were back then, the Clans would steamroll over most opposition. Modern BattleTech rules and Battle Value have helped even the odds, but even with that, modern BattleTech in my opinion can't capture the same feeling and play of original pre-Clan tabletop gameplay. Call me a grognard if you want, but that's how I feel.

I am not a fan of the Clans in tabletop BattleTech, as I always play Inner Sphere. But in the lore, the Clans aren't so bad, although many of them, particularly Clan Wolf, have unbelievable amounts of plot armor, even more than their Inner Sphere counterparts. Some of my favorite Clan characters are Natasha Kerensky, Phelan Ward, Ulric Kerensky, Jaime Wolf, Vlad Ward, Cordera Perez and Jayden (from MechWarrior 5: Clans), and Nocolai Malthus from The Sommerset Strikers (The BattleTech cartoon). I will also say that I didn't know much about the Clans until I started learning their lore, and watching videos by Tex of the Black Pants Legion, Sven Van Der Plank, and Big Red 40Tech gave me a real appreciation of them, their history, and their culture.

In MWO, I have played around with a few Clan Mechs, but overall, I prefer Inner Sphere Mechs. They may be technologically inferior to Clan tech, but their quirks and generally lower cooldowns make up for this. Also, playing my favorite Mechs from my childhood and teenage years is very fun and nostalgic for me.

Overall, I don't have a problem with the Clans themselves. I actually like the Wolves a lot, especially during the Clan Invasion. I just have a real fondness for the Inner Sphere, and for my love of the original game and lore before the Clans were introduced.

[Void Angel]

This was a peaceful topic,
Disturbing it seems wrong
And so I am compelled, I think
- to sing the necro song!

Necro necro necro!
your post is a bit late
Necro, necro, necro!
You didn't check the date!

[KursedVixen]

Stormwolf, on 03 February 2013 - 03:32 AM, said:

The same can be said for any of the Inner Sphere houses, why don't you hate them?






Read a book with the Clans, any book about them would help you.



Contrary to what people generally believe, melee is not dishonorable. The Clans merely find it distasteful.

The Thor marched forward like a butcher at a slaughterhouse. It raised the PPC that made up its right forearm for a blow that would crush the Hatchetman, but Kai sidestepped the attack. He brought the hatchet up into the Thor's right armpit. For. a half-second, Kai thought the resulting shower of sparks merely the reflection of those filling the rear of the cockpit, but armor raining down showed how much damage he had truly done. Son of a *****, this thing really works.

Instantly, a hollow voice reminded him of how inappropriate self-confidence had doomed him in the Academy's La Manchia scenario. Behind him, Deirdre shouted "Clear!" and a wave of heat turned the closed cockpit into a blast furnace. His right hand slammed down on the blue button, then he crossed his fingers and prayed.

The Thor had raised both its arms and clapped them together to crush the Hatchetman's head between them like some bloated mosquito. Argent fire encircled the 'Mech's neck before the Thor's heavy limbs could converge, then the whole cockpit assembly popped upward like a springloaded piece from a child's toy. Secondary rockets ignited, their golden spear of flame impaling the Thor's squat head, and shot the Hatchetman's head halfway to the shoulders of the Great Gash.



How is this generally better then let's say the Draconis Combine?


You look at the Inner Sphere through rose-coloured glasses my friend.
There are no good or bad guys in Battletech, most factions are shades of gray.

The closest we have to Bad guys are probably the Word of Blake.

Another thing people forget is that the clan honor system allows them to Return the dishonor that is put upon them so even if melee combat is dishonorable the very act of it enables them the use of melee.\

Clan Wolf was one of the clans to fully understand that the innersphere did not follow their rules of combat and quickly learned that it was better to ignore honor to complete the objective, while still keeping some honor like not shooting civilians and such...

need i mention Clan wolf is one of the few clans that won at Tukkayid, as well?

As for the team argument i see, clans work in stars of 5 mechs and points of elementals( i think it's five per point so that's 25 elementals in a star) to say the clans have little teamwork is a bold face lie... from the begining of their birth Clan warriors are put together into sibkos units of similar warriors trained to work together as 5 team member star.



The caste system is depending on the clan not a fixed thing a good fighter in the right clan could rise to be a warrior look at examples liek Phelen Kell....

Edited by KursedVixen, 28 June 2025 - 04:54 AM.

[martian]

KursedVixen, on 28 June 2025 - 04:49 AM, said:

Another thing people forget is that the clan honor system allows them to Return the dishonor that is put upon them so even if melee combat is dishonorable the very act of it enables them the use of melee.\

Clan Wolf was one of the clans to fully understand that the innersphere did not follow their rules of combat and quickly learned that it was better to ignore honor to complete the objective, while still keeping some honor like not shooting civilians and such...

need i mention Clan wolf is one of the few clans that won at Tukkayid, as well?

As for the team argument i see, clans work in stars of 5 mechs and points of elementals( i think it's five per point so that's 25 elementals in a star) to say the clans have little teamwork is a bold face lie... from the begining of their birth Clan warriors are put together into sibkos units of similar warriors trained to work together as 5 team member star.



The caste system is depending on the clan not a fixed thing a good fighter in the right clan could rise to be a warrior look at examples liek Phelen Kell....

You are quoting the post from 2013 and that guy was last active more than 3 years ago, so stop necroing old threads ...

Thank you.

[KursedVixen]

martian, on 28 June 2025 - 06:24 AM, said:

You are quoting the post from 2013 and that guy was last active more than 3 years ago, so stop necroing old threads ...

Thank you.

Why are you picking on me I'm not the one who brought the topic back from the dead, STOP WHINING TO ME ABOUT IT because as long as you keep whining to the wrong person, i will never stop.

Also if you really want the topic to die complaining about it by posting a new post also is necroing so you are a hypocrit would you learn and just let it go instead of whining about it?

Edited by KursedVixen, 28 June 2025 - 07:06 AM.

[Void Angel]

Telling you you're being a necro isn't persecution, Vix. Nor is pointing out that a thread has been necroed the same as actually doing it - don't whine about being corrected when you embarrass yourself. Just admit that you didn't get too far into the thread because you had a knee-jerk reaction to a hot-button topic and go on with your day...

[Centauri78]

Just for future clarification, what is the time limit on a thread for it to be a necro thread? Also, if a thread is necroed, is it the job of the forum moderators to archive it? I honestly don't know, so I would love to know the answer.

[KursedVixen]

Void Angel, on 28 June 2025 - 07:24 AM, said:

Telling you you're being a necro isn't persecution, Vix. Nor is pointing out that a thread has been necroed the same as actually doing it - don't whine about being corrected when you embarrass yourself. Just admit that you didn't get too far into the thread because you had a knee-jerk reaction to a hot-button topic and go on with your day...

okay so you want this topic to continue then, got it....I am being singled out by you, every time. Stop mini-modding and let the moderators do their job...


Alot of people also forge than the invader clans became part of the inner sphere after i think the Great
Refusual. For example Clan Ghost bear merged with what was left of house Rasaulhauge

Centauri78, on 28 June 2025 - 08:36 AM, said:

Just for future clarification, what is the time limit on a thread for it to be a necro thread? Also, if a thread is necroed, is it the job of the forum moderators to archive it? I honestly don't know, so I would love to know the answer.

I have seen nothing saying any topic is dead after a certain amount of time, all i know is the topic is open until a moderator locks it. Void angel here is mini-modding. if he says otherwise.
\
I've gotten only complains from void angel about it, but i never seen anyone else complain about posting in an old topic, just know if you do you might not get a reply.

Edited by KursedVixen, 28 June 2025 - 12:46 PM.

[Void Angel]

Vix, why lie? It's literally right up above your post: martian called you out for the necro-post, and you responded by heaping abuse on him and promising to harass him by arguing without end - while claiming that he's 'picking on you!' Now you're saying that you've only gotten complaints from me about necroposting, when I didn't even mention your error - this is what we call "telling an untruth." I objected to your abuse, and now you're making things up again.

Why you insist on trying to turn a breach of forum etiquette into a knock-down fight is beyond me.

Centauri78, on 28 June 2025 - 08:36 AM, said:

Just for future clarification, what is the time limit on a thread for it to be a necro thread? Also, if a thread is necroed, is it the job of the forum moderators to archive it? I honestly don't know, so I would love to know the answer.

Eh, they've been vague on that - but twelve years certainly qualifies. They don't archive them, you're just supposed to let them die.

PS: The amazing thing is that Vix has necroed this thread multiple times.

[KursedVixen]

Void Angel, on 29 June 2025 - 12:36 AM, said:

Vix, why lie? It's literally right up above your post: martian called you out for the necro-post, and you responded by heaping abuse on him and promising to harass him by arguing without end - while claiming that he's 'picking on you!' Now you're saying that you've only gotten complaints from me about necroposting, when I didn't even mention your error - this is what we call "telling an untruth." I objected to your abuse, and now you're making things up again.

Why you insist on trying to turn a breach of forum etiquette into a knock-down fight is beyond me.



Eh, they've been vague on that - but twelve years certainly qualifies. They don't archive them, you're just supposed to let them die.

PS: The amazing thing is that Vix has necroed this thread multiple times.

Why can't you learn to drop things and move on why is it your job to moderate the forum for necro post?


also why are you posting for martian why can't he respond for himself?

Edited by KursedVixen, 29 June 2025 - 04:12 AM.

[Void Angel]

Pointing out that only martian has done what you accused me of doing isn't "speaking for" anyone but myself.  Do you really think that your argument by fabulism tactics are going to work on me?  After all the times you've failed?  You're simply trying to pick a forum fight with someone who didn't even talk to you - you are the one targeting another forum poster and refusing to "drop things."  Trying ineptly to gaslight me isn't going to work - as it never has - but it is a form of lying.

Edited by Void Angel, 29 June 2025 - 05:55 AM.

[a 5 year old with an Uzi]

Because they have and always have had a strong appeal to really annoying people

They're like the Tiefling Warlocks of BT/MW

Edited by a 5 year old with an Uzi, 29 June 2025 - 02:10 PM.

[Pika]

a 5 year old with an Uzi, on 29 June 2025 - 01:59 PM, said:

Because they have and always have had a strong appeal to really annoying people

They're like the Tiefling Warlocks of BT/MW

Have... have you met the average IS player?

The ones who seem to forget none of this is real and act like they're actually fighting for their life? Who refer to their fave faction as "we" like it's a sports team?

I don't think I've ever gotten that from a clanner. >.>

Edit: Wait scratch this, how did a thread from 2013 end up at the top, what the hell? XD

Edited by Pika, 29 June 2025 - 04:19 PM.

[a 5 year old with an Uzi]

Pika, on 29 June 2025 - 04:18 PM, said:

Have... have you met the average IS player?

The ones who seem to forget none of this is real and act like they're actually fighting for their life? Who refer to their fave faction as "we" like it's a sports team?

I don't think I've ever gotten that from a clanner. >.>

Edit: Wait scratch this, how did a thread from 2013 end up at the top, what the hell? XD

A Tiefling Warlock used an Animate Dead scroll on it

I've heard one dude who likes to ham it up a bit for Steiner

That's it

And he gets hammy enough with it that it's funny

Edited by a 5 year old with an Uzi, 29 June 2025 - 07:01 PM.