314 replies to this topic

[Zerstorer Stallin]

This thread may be the best thread in PGI's history. I swear I'm going to get my entire clan to do this.

[Doc Holliday]

Zerstorer Stallin, on 27 February 2013 - 03:32 PM, said:

This thread may be the best thread in PGI's history. I swear I'm going to get my entire clan to do this.

Have fun being roflstomped by players shooting you from more than 270 meters.

[Kylere]

Josef Nader, on 27 February 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

But it's no where near as cheesy as the A1. It has a large number of easily exploitable weaknesses. The A1's only weakness is range, and if the A1 is playing properly this is a weakness that he can mitigate rather easily. He's fast, and he can control the engagement. Snipers rely on opportunity shots, and an A1 can pretty easily mitigate the number of opportunities if he isn't stupid. Aside from that, it has no other weaknesses.

So, a mech that is being accused of being a skillless toy requires that the pilot be "isn't stupid", to "control the engagement", "easily mitigate the number of opportunities"

Are these not things a poor player is incapable of accomplishing? I don't have a problem with dying to them, and I think they are a stupid build because they are a walking target, but I am only killed by exceptional, or exceptionally lucky pilots in an A1. I do not allow them to "control the engagement" nor "easily mitigate the number of opportunities"

[Doc Holliday]

Kylere, on 27 February 2013 - 04:37 PM, said:

So, a mech that is being accused of being a skillless toy requires that the pilot be "isn't stupid", to "control the engagement", "easily mitigate the number of opportunities"

Are these not things a poor player is incapable of accomplishing? I don't have a problem with dying to them, and I think they are a stupid build because they are a walking target, but I am only killed by exceptional, or exceptionally lucky pilots in an A1. I do not allow them to "control the engagement" nor "easily mitigate the number of opportunities"

You know, I think I just realized what the real problem is here. The splatcat is the one build the RVN-3L actually can't dominate. Think about it. SRMs aren't affected by ECM. They have excellent damage AND good spread, so you're bound to get a good number of them to hit even with the Raven's FUBAR hitbox. 3Ls only carry medium lasers and SSRMs, which don't outrange SRMs. And the Cat chassis can move and twist fast enough to actually get some good shots off at a fast-moving light.

Edited by Doc Holliday, 27 February 2013 - 04:42 PM.

[Monky]

I would be fine with bringing SRM damage down, it would also have a beneficial effect for SSRM to have damage toned down.

SRM in general need the 'spread' to happen very quickly (15 meters), then normalize so they don't spread any more. Think Robotech missiles.

[Doc Holliday]

Monky, on 27 February 2013 - 04:42 PM, said:

I would be fine with bringing SRM damage down, it would also have a beneficial effect for SSRM to have damage toned down.

SRM in general need the 'spread' to happen very quickly (15 meters), then normalize so they don't spread any more. Think Robotech missiles.

See, that's why we need good discussions. I never thought of a spread like that. That's a perfect solution to tone down SRMs up close, yet leave them somewhat useful out to their max range. I like it.

And yes, both SRMs and SSRMs need damage reduced.

[FupDup]

Doc Holliday, on 27 February 2013 - 04:45 PM, said:

And yes, both SRMs and SSRMs need damage reduced.

SSRMs' damage is pretty negligible unless you're chasing down lights. A much bigger issue with them is that they can do some seriously screwed up gymnastics after leaving the tube. I've seen my Streaks (I've a career Raveneer) quite literally turn on a dime to hit an enemy Commando that went behind me after firing...that shouldn't happen.

A much tighter turning radius would make lights able to dodge them much easier (in MW3 you could dodge missiles by just walking perpendicular to your attacker at ~80+ KPH) and it might provide an excuse to actually up the damage a little (to be slightly better against heavies and assaults to compensate for becoming much less OP against lights).

Edited by FupDup, 27 February 2013 - 04:57 PM.

[Corvus Antaka]

if the splat cats torso twist was like the stalkers none of this would be an issue. but with the 270 torso twist and jumpjets and the ability to fire 6 SRM 6's 3 times before heat problems + this thing is a monster. I still think this is more a heat issue - if firing 6 SRM 6 was unmanegable due to heat and you couldnt pretty much gaurentee kills with a 3 shot before overheat this thing wouldnt be so bad.

plus the mech just goes too fast, a lot of people say run away, but unless your pushing 90kph+ running away just isnt an option.

ive been running some brawlers, dragons, hunchies, etc, and mostly to me the torso twist on the catapult is what seems most out of place, big torso twists should be reserved for brawling mechs, not fire support.

I say this as a catapult owner that loves his founders cat and would hate to see the twist get nurfed, but I fear that the catapult simply has too many of a good thing going on...somethings gotta give.

[Doc Holliday]

FupDup, on 27 February 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:

SSRMs' damage is pretty negligible unless you're chasing down lights. A much bigger issue with them is that they can do some seriously screwed up gymnastics after leaving the tube. I've seen my Streaks (I've a career Raveneer) quite literally turn on a dime to hit an enemy Commando that went behind me after firing...that shouldn't happen.

A much tighter turning radius would make lights able to dodge them much easier (in MW3 you could dodge missiles by just walking perpendicular to your attacker at ~80+ KPH) and it might provide an excuse to actually up the damage a little (to be slightly better against heavies and assaults to compensate for becoming much less OP against lights).

The damage on them seems ok to you now because they only come in twos. Wait until we have SSRM6's. You think people are whining a lot about splat cats? You haven't seen anything yet.

[FupDup]

Doc Holliday, on 27 February 2013 - 05:00 PM, said:

The damage on them seems ok to you now because they only come in twos. Wait until we have SSRM6's. You think people are whining a lot about splat cats? You haven't seen anything yet.

I don't think we should be worrying about the Clanners for some time to come, because I don't want to think about a Timberwolf boating as many Clan LRM20's as it can fit...*shudders*

EDIT: Even just a lowly Kit Fox with a Clan LRM20 and a few ERML's would be a beast (Clanner equivalent to the 3L?).

Edited by FupDup, 27 February 2013 - 05:04 PM.

[Doc Holliday]

FupDup, on 27 February 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

I don't think we should be worrying about the Clanners for some time to come, because I don't want to think about a Timberwolf boating as many Clan LRM20's as it can fit...*shudders*

EDIT: Even just a lowly Kit Fox with a Clan LRM20 and a few ERML's would be a beast (Clanner equivalent to the 3L?).

If they keep following the timeline, clanners are coming this year. Best start worrying about them.

[Byk]

I'm here to just input my vote on Catapult A1's are just too strong at the moment. No 'Mech should be this powerful compared to every other.

[LoneUnknown]

Ok, some good and bad ideas in this thread.

BAD IDEA - Nerfing SRM damage because one mech can mount 6 of them. Where would that weapon system have any value to the mechs that can only mount 1 or 2 of them? You know, like most other mechs.

GOOD IDEA - Cut down the speed of the catapult, in particular the A1. Catapult is actually rather slow in canon, the mobility comes from the jump jets. The A1 in any form (lrm, srm, streak, mixed) would seem way more reasonable if it couldnt keep pace with mediums. It is supposed to be a heavy missile platform. Speed is where the balance is missing.

Bottom line is, without a major overhaul of the hardpoint system, we are going to have these "extreme builds." Nerfing a weapon because a particular chassis can field them en masse is bad thinking and leads to a constant cycle. Remember when medium lasers were nerfed into uselessness back in closed beta because mechs like the 4P could boat them? It screwwed all the light mechs which needed them.

Simply adjust the mech in question. Catapult is too fast.

[Doc Holliday]

LoneUnknown, on 27 February 2013 - 05:13 PM, said:

Ok, some good and bad ideas in this thread.

BAD IDEA - Nerfing SRM damage because one mech can mount 6 of them. Where would that weapon system have any value to the mechs that can only mount 1 or 2 of them? You know, like most other mechs.

GOOD IDEA - Cut down the speed of the catapult, in particular the A1. Catapult is actually rather slow in canon, the mobility comes from the jump jets. The A1 in any form (lrm, srm, streak, mixed) would seem way more reasonable if it couldnt keep pace with mediums. It is supposed to be a heavy missile platform. Speed is where the balance is missing.

Bottom line is, without a major overhaul of the hardpoint system, we are going to have these "extreme builds." Nerfing a weapon because a particular chassis can field them en masse is bad thinking and leads to a constant cycle. Remember when medium lasers were nerfed into uselessness back in closed beta because mechs like the 4P could boat them? It screwwed all the light mechs which needed them.

Simply adjust the mech in question. Catapult is too fast.

Really? You liked your own post? How sad.

You're also wrong. But hey, keep thinking that way. I'll keep abusing my solitary SRM6 on my dragons to great effect.

[Corbon Zackery]

Yea just about everyone done a splat cat. Open Beta before double heat sinks I ran one with: Narc and 5 SRM 4 I would link fire them so the Narc hit first then each SRM 4 would fire. It never worked because the SRM were dumb fire but the NARC beacon was suppose to attach to the mech and all the missile were suppose to hit that spot.

[LoneUnknown]

Doc Holliday, on 27 February 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

Really? You liked your own post? How sad.

You're also wrong. But hey, keep thinking that way. I'll keep abusing my solitary SRM6 on my dragons to great effect.

You let **** like that bother you? Now THAT is sad.

Feel free to explain how I am wrong and that unstacked SRMs are somehow overpowered.

[IceFyre]

The Cat is a good mech no doubt, but it is meant to be a good mech. I run Cats almost exclusively. Take it from one who's been piloting them better than 9 out of every 10 times out of the gate since open beta began - they are good but not perfect. No ballistic hardpoints on 3 out of 4 chassis, a somewhat vulnerable head & cockpit, relatively short for their weight (mixed blessing), arms that make great targets from certain angles for decent marksmen. No not perfect, in fact balanced on the whole. Same for SRMs. Excessive spread even with Artemis dictates an up close and personal fighting style which is not really where the Cat needs to be unless it's running and gunning. Again not a perfect weapon, balanced on the whole. Yes I've spent my time in a splat cat. Yes it works but it works best against a cooperative enemy. No, it's not my favorite build and not presently in my stable. I find it's constraints too limiting for my style. It does work well if you fight it with those constraints in mind and if your enemy is ignorant of what he's dealing with. The same can be said of many other mechs & builds.

Don't nerf the Cat or SRMs.

Ice

Edited by IceFyre, 27 February 2013 - 05:31 PM.

[Primetimex]

Alpha-strike (and assault class damage capability) aside, it's a no-brainer to choose a 'Pult to run because:

1. At max top speed of 86.4kph and excellent accel, decel, turning rate, torso twist it is an excellent mech also to have in Conquest map situations, I've finally decided to try running an A1 and these factors has won my team many close Conquest matches (not splatting suprisingly, but won points by resources collecting)!. An assault by comparison wouldn't make it as it is too slow, I have mastered both Stalker and Atlas and they're just way too slow.

2. The A1 'Pult is a multi-role mech: heavy fire support, opportunist brawler, cap mech.

3. Jump Jets are invaluable for getting you out of trouble spots - lately, I've seen many more JJ's on mechs and not just 'Pults.

Interestingly, the Awesome is and can be potentially faster mech but does not seem to have the same "punch" as the Splat-A-Pult.

TL:DR: I waz actually bored just running my Assaults and decided to try the Catapults to see what all the "fuss" is about!

Edited by Primetimex, 27 February 2013 - 05:39 PM.

[AceTimberwolf]

If you want to bring down SRM DMG then you have to Bring LRM DMG. Its all Balance and once we get quirks in we will be fine. On that note the A1 will have the smallest torso radius as it does not have "Defensive weapons" and was meant to rain down LRMs so it should be ajusted that way maybe not as narrow as a stalkers turn but pretty close.

[Mr Mantis]

I don't think the problem is the cat. yes it is amazingly twisty and fast as it can be, well maybe but the other variants don't seem over powered at all. the srm 6 could have a splash on it so when you face hug it hurts you as well as the target. the damage is fine but needs to be spread out over the body more when at such close ranges (what it is designed to do).

More large maps would also correct the issue, if you cant get to the enemy it is a pointless weapon.