1089 replies to this topic

[Livewyr]

StalaggtIKE, on 30 April 2013 - 09:19 AM, said:

I would assume they've already decided on the locations- just a matter of programming. (Programming takes a good long time, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on that..)

[StalaggtIKE]

Livewyr, on 01 May 2013 - 04:24 AM, said:

I would assume they've already decided on the locations- just a matter of programming. (Programming takes a good long time, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on that..)

Seems to me it would be best to review it with us first before committing all this time, only later to have half of the player base up in arms.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 01 May 2013 - 04:53 AM.

[StalaggtIKE]

Thontor, on 01 May 2013 - 05:01 AM, said:

Only half? That would be a win for them

Yes. In PGI's case, that would be a win. (my serious face)

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 01 May 2013 - 05:07 AM.

[StalaggtIKE]

Thontor, on 01 May 2013 - 05:12 AM, said:

That's generally how you know something is balanced... Half hate it, half love it. That is when you know spmething is balanced. That is a win no matter the company. You can never please everyone.

Wait, what does this have to do with balance? I'm talking about a hardpoint location.

[StalaggtIKE]

Thontor, on 01 May 2013 - 05:46 AM, said:

Hardpoint location has pretty big impact on balance. Especially on the DDC. Not only in knowing where to shoot to disable it, but it could have a significant affect on how you can build your mech as well.

OK..., but that's beside the point. I don't care about that. I just think they should go ahead and post the proposed hardpoint locations.

[Critical Fumble]

Thontor, on 01 May 2013 - 05:12 AM, said:

That's generally how you know something is balanced... Half hate it, half love it. That is when you know spmething is balanced. That is a win no matter the company. You can never please everyone.

Or it means that something is horribly wrong with it. If the half that hates it never use it and the half that loves it always use it, it may not be a real issue. If the love/hate pools are mixed, you may have an issue with balance or just visualization and training, but its worth looking into.

Not to pick a fight, but it is a bit of a post hoc statement. You can expect that a balanced system will generate some strife between those that use it and have it used against them; but strife between those that use it and have it used against them does not indicate that it is balanced.

[Fate 6]

hammerreborn, on 03 April 2013 - 01:41 PM, said:

The reason for it is that you can aim for the torso part the ECM is in. Right now ECM could be in any torso, making its 3 hp kinda negligible because you first have to find it. Now you know exactly where to shoot to disable it (because it dies nearly as fast as a guass)

Yes, because I can totally target sections of a mech with LRMs and Streaks.

This literally did nothing to fix the problem it was causing for those two weapon systems - therefore it basically did nothing. If enemy ECM doesn't stop friendly IFF tags anymore, non-lock-on systems literally don't care about it at all, so they don't have to target it. In the game as it is now ECM will be acceptable but only because LRMs and Streaks do garbage damage regardless. We need changes to ECM that help people using those systems, not changes that further help people using PPCs.

[hammerreborn]

Fate 6, on 01 May 2013 - 07:32 AM, said:

Yes, because I can totally target sections of a mech with LRMs and Streaks.

This literally did nothing to fix the problem it was causing for those two weapon systems - therefore it basically did nothing. If enemy ECM doesn't stop friendly IFF tags anymore, non-lock-on systems literally don't care about it at all, so they don't have to target it. In the game as it is now ECM will be acceptable but only because LRMs and Streaks do garbage damage regardless. We need changes to ECM that help people using those systems, not changes that further help people using PPCs.

....so...your point is...don't use only LRMs and streaks? That sounds like a good plan to me.

Edited by hammerreborn, 01 May 2013 - 07:49 AM.

[Twisted Power]

hammerreborn, on 01 May 2013 - 07:49 AM, said:

....so...your point is...don't use only LRMs and streaks? That sounds like a good plan to me.

This is PGI's point. That is why they came out with ECM.

[DocBach]

Twisted Power, on 01 May 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

This is PGI's point. That is why they came out with ECM.

Exactly - who needs role warfare?

I love how people cling on to an idea of a meta game where only certain builds are viable. How is limiting choices to only specific weapons to be truly effective a fun system in the long run?

[StalaggtIKE]

DocBach, on 01 May 2013 - 09:07 AM, said:

Exactly - who needs role warfare?

I love how people cling on to an idea of a meta game where only certain builds are viable. How is limiting choices to only specific weapons to be truly effective a fun system in the long run?

Well most players that are unable to adapt, prefers to limit other people's playing style to either one they can handle or one they are comfortable with. My question is what is PGI's goal in the long run? Perhaps this is a money grab. Balance is driven to make players buy FOTM gear. A simplified example of overall balance ran like this:

• LRM where easy to use, yet useful; so "everyone" got a LRM boat.
  
• Next, make ECM hard counter LRM; so "everyone" got DDC, RVN-3L and/or brawler.
  
• Finally, make PPC counter ECM, lower their heat and buff JJ; so "everyone" got a poptard.

Or perhaps it just legitimate balance. So, what happens when future tech is/should be introduced, that does what ECM already does? Does that mean no Null Sig, Stealth Armor, Angel ECM, or Clan ECM in the future? How will Active and Passive radar factor in to the equation? Their staunch attitude towards ECM ultimately limits the future growth of IW.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 01 May 2013 - 10:08 AM.

[hammerreborn]

StalaggtIKE, on 01 May 2013 - 10:03 AM, said:

Well most players that are unable to adapt, prefers to limit other people's playing style to either one they can handle or one they are comfortable with. My question is what is PGI's goal in the long run? Perhaps this is a money grab. Balance is driven to make players buy FOTM gear. A simplified example of overall balance ran like this:

• LRM where easy to use, yet useful; so "everyone" got a LRM boat.
  
• Next, make ECM hard counter LRM; so "everyone" got DDC, RVN-3L and/or brawler.
  
• Finally, make PPC counter ECM, lower their heat and buff JJ; so "everyone" got a poptard.

Or perhaps it just legitimate balance. So, what happens when future tech is/should be introduced, that does what ECM already does? Does that mean no Null Sig, Stealth Armor, Angel ECM, or Clan ECM in the future? How will Active and Passive radar factor in to the equation? Their staunch attitude towards ECM ultimately limits the future growth of IW.

I think it's more of a really slow balancing process that will hopefully be sped up extremely quickly once HSR is complete and the public test server is released.

To be honest, I think if it wasn't for the netcode crapping itself, we would have had CW by now. And its hard to do any balance when there were entire classes of weapons that were completely nullified by a person with high ping.

The ppc heat reduction, projectile speed increases, all of it was to help combat the netcode problems, and now that it's being fixed, some glaring flaws in balance are being revealed.

[Fate 6]

StalaggtIKE, on 01 May 2013 - 10:03 AM, said:

Well most players that are unable to adapt, prefers to limit other people's playing style to either one they can handle or one they are comfortable with. My question is what is PGI's goal in the long run? Perhaps this is a money grab. Balance is driven to make players buy FOTM gear. A simplified example of overall balance ran like this:

• LRM where easy to use, yet useful; so "everyone" got a LRM boat.
  
• Next, make ECM hard counter LRM; so "everyone" got DDC, RVN-3L and/or brawler.
  
• Finally, make PPC counter ECM, lower their heat and buff JJ; so "everyone" got a poptard.

Or perhaps it just legitimate balance. So, what happens when future tech is/should be introduced, that does what ECM already does? Does that mean no Null Sig, Stealth Armor, Angel ECM, or Clan ECM in the future? How will Active and Passive radar factor in to the equation? Their staunch attitude towards ECM ultimately limits the future growth of IW.

Just wait until the release of some made-up IW items like OCM (Optic Counter Measures) which will make energy weapons unable to damage mechs in its radius. MCM (Magnetic Counter Measures) will do the same for ballistics.

hammerreborn, on 01 May 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:

I think it's more of a really slow balancing process that will hopefully be sped up extremely quickly once HSR is complete and the public test server is released.

To be honest, I think if it wasn't for the netcode crapping itself, we would have had CW by now. And its hard to do any balance when there were entire classes of weapons that were completely nullified by a person with high ping.

The ppc heat reduction, projectile speed increases, all of it was to help combat the netcode problems, and now that it's being fixed, some glaring flaws in balance are being revealed.

Why are we waiting on a test server. If this is a beta, isn't the server we already have the test server? Forgive me if I misunderstand the point of a BETA TEST.

[Smegmw]

For the love of all that's holy do not restrict ECM to a dedicated hardpoint. Only a foolhardy Mechwarrior would put such a beneficial system in the same place every time.

[hammerreborn]

Fate 6, on 01 May 2013 - 10:50 AM, said:

Just wait until the release of some made-up IW items like OCM (Optic Counter Measures) which will make energy weapons unable to damage mechs in its radius. MCM (Magnetic Counter Measures) will do the same for ballistics.


Why are we waiting on a test server. If this is a beta, isn't the server we already have the test server? Forgive me if I misunderstand the point of a BETA TEST.

Because we're currently "testing" the live patches. Test servers are for testing the "next" patch that isn't live yet, and will come with even more horrible bugs than what makes it into the live ones.

Are you completely clueless about what Test servers are? Nearly every predominant game has them.

This damn community ***** a brick everytime they run into a bug. Ya, let's put everyone on the test servers that haven't had all the kinks worked out yet. That will not be a disaster at all.

"My minimap is colored, I MIGHT AS WELL NOT PLAY THE GAME AT ALL"

Edited by hammerreborn, 01 May 2013 - 10:58 AM.

[Fate 6]

hammerreborn, on 01 May 2013 - 10:56 AM, said:

Because we're currently "testing" the live patches. Test servers are for testing the "next" patch that isn't live yet, and will come with even more horrible bugs than what makes it into the live ones.

Are you completely clueless about what Test servers are? Nearly every predominant game has them.

This damn community ***** a brick everytime they run into a bug. Ya, let's put everyone on the test servers that haven't had all the kinks worked out yet. That will not be a disaster at all.

"My minimap is colored, I MIGHT AS WELL NOT PLAY THE GAME AT ALL"

Maybe PGI just needs to be more careful with the ridiculous bugs they put in the game? I've never heard of a beta game having a separate test server, and the reason is that the beta server is meant for the testing. The game should not be so unstable that we need an isolated server to test the next patch. Considering how many bugs make it into the game anyway and aren't even fixed in the next patch I don't see the point of a test server.

[StalaggtIKE]

hammerreborn, on 01 May 2013 - 10:56 AM, said:

"My minimap is colored, I MIGHT AS WELL NOT PLAY THE GAME AT ALL"

Hey, that sounds similar to my current gaming experience. I must already be on the test server!
Out of the way, Plebeians! Test Server Master Race coming through!

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 01 May 2013 - 12:59 PM.

[Dawnstealer]

Just echoing what others have said, the balance to ECM should be the Beagle. Of course, not at full range, but the Beagle should be able to, say, target units that are literally in the crosshairs (for just the Beagle'd mech) or detect ECM'd units at a reduced range to their normal range.

[General Taskeen]

Its time to ignore the people who say ECM is fine. They are obviously trolling. We will ignore them, like we ignore Kim Jong Un.

[hammerreborn]

General Taskeen, on 01 May 2013 - 06:18 PM, said:

Its time to ignore the people who say ECM is fine. They are obviously trolling. We will ignore them, like we ignore Kim Jong Un.

We all know that ignoring dissenting opinions is how to truely prove you are correct!

And seeing Devs have said ECM is fine, doesn't that make you the troll for constantly complaining about it?

Edited by hammerreborn, 01 May 2013 - 06:25 PM.