148 replies to this topic

[Sheraf]

Junkman7mgte, on 22 May 2013 - 03:14 PM, said:

Lol, my cent's aren't "rebuilt" yet, to handle more missles. lrm 5's are harassment weappons to keep poptarts down long enough to close in

Just kidding, nothing personal I often have trouble with good cent pilot in my stalker.

[Owlfeathers]

Sheraf, on 22 May 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

II wish it works that way. I can't core those cents in 3 salvo

Must be pretty tough Centurions then. My Raven gets cored by half a salvo if I get spotted out cover.

*cough* messed up flight paths *cough*

Sorry, that is to say in or out of cover.

[Spades Kincaid]

Livewyr, on 22 May 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

What is actually happening..

MATCHES ARE ********* MOVING AGAIN.
LRMs need flight path fixed, that's fine with me.

But since LRMs have come back into the picture.. I haven't seen a camping match yet!

rewind to monday-

March up to your picket line, prance around waiting for the PPC boats to make a mistake, and hope it was the other team's mistake.

fastforward to today-
as of last night, people are having to move in order to break locks and not be where the missiles land, they're using flanking maneuvers and harassment to get close..

Missile mechs are supporting brawlers..,scouts... are scouting... (I remember seeing a Jenner go behind enemy lines and stand on a pillar to sight for us... I was so proud.)

----------------------------------
Bottom line is:
Since the patch, there has been more movement in a days worth of matches, then there there was in all of last week.

^ This.

Was pretty much the same thoughts I had playing last night. 'Wow, everything got mobile again!'

Scouts were actually running around spotting targets. They and fast mediums were actually trying to chase down/harass LRM mechs. And heavies and assaults were actually moving. Trying to press or get from cover to cover. Not just camping someplace, at least not for long. There were still alpha snipers and poptarts. But they were not ruling the battlefield and dictating stagnancy.

The battlefield became much more dynamic and I saw a lot of swirling fluid encounters with mechs all over the place; not just two blobs standing off PPC/Gaussing each other.

It was awesome and great fun in my opinion. A much needed shift.

Definitely needs to be an adjustment to the indirect fire break point coming too late in flight as the devs have acknowledged. The idea is sound, it should be different than direct fire. A bit better at clearing low cover. It just needs dialing back a bit. Direct fire seems about 45 degrees baseline, indirect coming in at around 60 might be good.

CT focus of damage issue should be addressed. But then so should SSRM. At least with LRM's you have some chance to spread damage by twisting. I know it's imperfect, but it has worked to a noticeable extent for me. Enough to be worth doing. Far more so than with streaks.

With the indirect approach angle adjusted, I think LRM's will be in a pretty good place. With a hopeful solution to give a bit more spread to the damage at some point soon as well; without breaking them in some other way.

[verybad]

What I'm seeing is that LRMs flight path got a bit too buffed, but that the fix should be a SMALL nerf. Don't panic because suddenly they're so good, just do a minor nerf. Get data after that. They're GOOD now, and need to be a bit less brutal, but only a bit less. LRMs are signifigant weapons, they need to remain signifigant. So small steps, I think PGI is closer to right there than people are giving them credit.

SMALL steps.

[Novakaine]

Hotthedd, on 22 May 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

Not much more to say than the title.

I dusted off my Pretty Baby, loaded it up with 55 LRMs, and took it out on a few matches today.

I never died. I never had fewer than 2 kills and many assists. I never had to "work" for a kill. I just sat near the back and pointed and clicked. Easy money.

My question is: WHO enjoys this? What is the point? Minecraft is more challenging. I cannot suppose it is any more fun for my hapless victims, especially on Caustic Valley, where things that USED to provide cover no longer do.

PGI, please PLEASE do not cater to the crowd that thinks this is at all fun, or takes the slightest skill. A Hotfix is necessary yesterday, not with the next patch.

Bah Ya wanna know what takes skill?
Hitting a fast moving mech darting in and out of cover LRM's
Face hugging a mech while alpha striking, don't see any skill involved there at all.

[Spiral Eddie]

I like the new change to LRMs, i agree with what others have posted above and the game has become more mobile and dynamic again.
My main beef is with the CT bias, too many times now i have been cored from long range indirectly, this is game breaking IMO. in days of yor LRMs represented a softening up weapon that removed armour over many sections to allow the direct fire weapons to be successful. this imo is what LRMs should be.

[Hotthedd]

Novakaine, on 22 May 2013 - 04:34 PM, said:

Bah Ya wanna know what takes skill?
Hitting a fast moving mech darting in and out of cover LRM's
Face hugging a mech while alpha striking, don't see any skill involved there at all.

The tu quoque fallacy? What does the skill (or lack thereof) to facehug brawl have to do with it? (I don't run brawlers, btw)

[clemash]

So after my games last night I must say the fun has increased so I do disagree with the original poster.

Cover not being useful - I was dodging volleys in a stalker on caustic by breaking lock behind a hill and moving to the left or the right so maybe a slight adjustment to angle might be needed to help some people but nothing major. It just seems to make the game more fliud.

Weapon diversity - Last night was definetely a better spread of weapon than over the previous few weeks but that could be people searching for a new meta (I hope not and hope it is most weapons are viable - Though MG's are anti infantry so having them never viable doesnt bother me)

Missile spread - tried a few mechs out on testing grounds and the LRM always hitting the CT didnt feel right from a crusty old Tabletop battletech player's viewpoint but them everyone else aims their weapons so whatever.

MIssile damage - Testing a 4x15 artemis awesome on testing grounds makes you fear missles but of course testing ground doesnt have ams so you dont get a in play idea of what the really do. SRM's are still a little low but we wait for their balancing after missle HSR to be sure they are balanced.

Hilarity - playing my cat-a1 5x streak2 1xalrm15 and getting one shotted in the head by a jager ac40. I should have gone left not right. the other great part of the night was having 3 mechs in a clump on river city each with 2 AMS, watching the heavy rain become a light shower and killing the LRM's for their rain dance had me laughing with glee.

Canyon fights - Thus far a nice map of swirling battles where getting outflanked or doing the outflanking is making the fights more like the brawls the medium laser or srm brawlers have been waiting for.

BAP change - Has made the streak cat far more viable by itself rather than making sure a friend was in an ecm boat and hugging them for the game. Though srm damage might still be a little low - tried my splatcat as well and found the same. Though i await missile HSR before final judgement is on that.

So mechs played last night
4x ppc misery
4x ppc stalker 5s with twin AMS and 3 streaks - makes me want to use the 5s more than the misery
awesome 8r with 4x lrm15 artemis - effective but counterable and i did get lights using terrain to close to kill
catapult a1 - 5xssrm2 and lrm15 art and BAP - Its playable without prebuilding a team yay
catapult a1 - 4xsrm6 art - from australia i need HSR
trebuchet 7m - 2x erppc - fun hunter mech just like last week.

[Royce Mathers]

Hotthedd, on 22 May 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

Define "viable". Do you mean that LRM boats should be able to kill (CT core) any mech' in the game in 2 or 3 salvos? Because that is what we have.

an lrm boat with 4 lrm 20s is no different than a gauss boat or ppc boat with 4 ppcs----a mech with 4 ppcs will also core you in 2 to 3 salvos and can snipe you from 1600 meters away. and he can shoot and duck after taking the shot--without having to stand there qand let you shoot back..

any BOAT will do massive damage

[Royce Mathers]

Junkman7mgte, on 22 May 2013 - 03:10 PM, said:

Thank you, thank you .... The truth comes out ... the REAL issue, is the same as the PPC poptarts ... Boating.


My "balanced" Treb does ok, and yet, is not OP by any means. 1x lrm 10, 1x lrm 15, ams, and 4x mlas. I can play at a distance, or up close, and still be effective.

the problem with LRMs vs PPCs is lrms are only effective in a huge wave. fire a PPC at a target--it hits and the target takes damage. fire a LRM 10 at a mech in a pack of mechs and the AMS shoots down all of your missiles. You have to saturate to get any hits.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Too much damage to CT when hit. Also very difficult to dodge (not impossible). Splash fix will make me happy. I'm glad to see it rains again.

[MustrumRidcully]

Zerberus, on 22 May 2013 - 01:28 PM, said:

Unless you have Parkinson`s Disease, yes.

Can I see your accuracy stats?

[Mass Fogger]

I Foresee Nerfing However the last time LRM's was big didn't stop the gaming. It dose make you think a bit more about were you are vs. the terrain. When move and who is around you, if they have TAG's or ECM. At 2 days into the patch i think most people are in a bit of shock. Once they get over it, and start exploring options how to combat this, the complaints will go down.

[Johnny Reb]

I have been a lrm boat since the Highlanders came out! I agree the new lrms are OP and its the angle more than anything! I would have been happy with the speed increase, damage is great if your rocking it, lowering to maybe .8 is the number. However, the arc is ridiculous! Unless your hugging a tall structure the lrms go over and hit you!

[VXJaeger]

IMHO situation now is nowhere near Da Real LRMGeddon. Mostly it's just that players have forgotten how to deal with LRM 'cause it was nerfed for so long time.

[Squirtbox]

I wouldn't be quite as frustrated by the LRM changes if I didn't get cored out by them regardless of the direction I am twisted/facing. My highlanders and atlases have 100+ armor on the front ct alone. I should not be getting destroyed by 3 salvos spread across my entire mech.

I haven't even really been able to effectively harass the enemy LRM boats as I seem to find all the enemy mechs with Seismic, BAP, and streaks which currently fly around from the back of your mech to hit you in the front CT.

Good thing the QA/QC guys really tested these fixes before throwing them out here. Not to mention the complete lack of a hot fix for ANY of the acknowledged issues this patch brought with it.

[YueFei]

Strangely, direct-fired LRMs are easier to avoid than indirect-fired ones. =/

People are having wildly different experiences because of this. If you're hugging cover and an enemy mech finds you and spots for his LRM buddies, suddenly you get a torrent of LRMs from 2 or 3 different mechs than obtain a really high trajectory, fly over your cover, and smash you to bits.

But if you waddle out of cover, and the dudes shooting LRMs have a direct line of sight to you, the missiles don't go on that high arc. Then it becomes more manageable to find cover before it hits you.

Maybe it should be the other way around? If the LRM launcher obtained lock via direct line-of-sight, the missile flight should get the bonus from Artemis and TAG and, even if the launcher loses line-of-sight during the missile flight, the missiles should still do that high arc to fly over cover.

And then if you do indirect fire, so you can't see your target and he can't see you, then it has the flatter trajectory. That way, more risk is more reward, and less risk is less reward.

[Johnny Reb]

VXJaeger, on 22 May 2013 - 11:06 PM, said:

IMHO situation now is nowhere near Da Real LRMGeddon. Mostly it's just that players have forgotten how to deal with LRM 'cause it was nerfed for so long time.

I disagree because now they get to you faster and the arc! My god the arc, if that is what was intended then no need but lrm boats with some defense.

[Jonathan Paine]

I like the game more after the last patch. Terrain needs a small buff. The ppc boats are dueling the lrm boats, streak cats are hunting ravens. BJ mostly suck. Matchmaker is broken. Oh well.

[VXJaeger]

Johnny Reb, on 22 May 2013 - 11:25 PM, said:

I disagree because now they get to you faster and the arc! My god the arc, if that is what was intended then no need but lrm boats with some defense.

Amazingly 'cause of arc, you are better off out in the open than hiding somewhere I think that PGI designed it specially for countering poptarts, but went little too far with dropangle.