233 replies to this topic

[ShadowSpirit]

Clans? What are you talking about? Clans? Are you kidding me? ELO doesn't even work.

[Guido]

There's no way that clan tech isn't going to make a dramatic impact on this game without taking a nerf-bat wholesale to the whole faction's equipment line-up. Toss out the TT pilot stuff. There's no reason to discuss that. I don't know whether PGI will toss in anything to sate the Omni-mech part of the equation; if they do, then that's another advantage that clan mechs will have. Being able to bring pretty much any weapons to the field in any mech is a whole ballpark of it's own, regardless of limitations to mech structure. Players have spent countless hours maximizing the loadouts of their mechs because there is limitations to the weapons equip-able on a mech. That's all I will say about the Omni-mech capability and any limitations PGI may implement on internals.

Just having equipment that weighs less will make a ridiculous impact. Where once a player could only fit a Large Laser, now they toss in a clan PPC. Where an AC5 was all they could squeeze in, here due to weight restrictions comes a clan UAC10. The MWO player base has always gone for the most weapons for the most damage for the play-style that particular player uses. I've not even mentioned range factors yet, considering that PGI has distinctly said that they are making maps on the larger side, like alpine, as opposed to smaller maps like forest colony. Larger mechs are also affected by equipment (crit) space, as they have more weight available to dedicate to weaponry, and the clan equipment is smaller than IS equipment, making fitting a UAC20 in a mech's arm despite it having a shoulder joint that prevents a normal AC20 from fitting there a possibility as well. These are just a few of the scenarios that is likely to come out.

By tabletop rules and MWO mech build trends, you can easily imagine a Catapult K2 (because I don't feel like speculating on crit points for a clan mech) being capable of equipping clan tech. You'll likely find 2 clan gauss, 2 Clan ERPPC, and 2 Clan ERML on it with 60-75% armor and enough Clan Heatsinks on it to rattle off paired shots without breaking a sweat, with most of it's damage potential at 1000km, and full damage potential at what's considered the far edge of medium range. Tabletop had increased penalty to miss beyond effective range; players aiming are limited by real skill, not luck of the dice.

So in all, unless clan equipment is nerfed to hell (double the heat generation or drastically lowered range and damage) and they throw out the concept of Omni-mech potential by limiting weapon capability, then clan gear is going to rule the battlefield. Lowering the number of players on a clan vs IS drop (doubtful PGI can make the matchmaker do a forced 8v12 successfully, or will even try to make the matchmaker do that due to "splitting the community") I've already seen two matches yesterday where 8 players steamrolled 12 (I was on both sides of those events, respectively, and it happened because of disconnects), and they were both while I was solo-pugging, so I doubt that will make a meaningful difference.

I predict that clan tech will become the go-to for weaponry and equipment at a minimum. You don't think there's go-to equipment, ask how many players don't use either endo-steel or ferro-fibrous, along with double heat sinks.

[Tombstoner]

skill based targeting> clan pilot skill + pulse bonus+ targeting computer
clan tech will crush all befor it.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Z0MBIE Y0SHI, on 25 August 2013 - 11:08 PM, said:

So many people capable of predicting the future. Don't suppose I could get powerball numbers outta you guys, could I?

42, and a towel.

[MavRCK]

Allow for all clan tech / FF / Endo / engines to be used in the inner sphere mech chassis.

Omnipoints would be the only balancing issue. The new clan tech would be a cbill sink for the inner sphere mechs we already own.

win win win and balance

Don't worry PGI / IGP won't do this. It's too !&*^!&*^ logical.

example: Orion IIC

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Orion_IIC

"" Not a radical reworking of the design, as some Clan upgrades are, the Orion IIC replaces much of the innards and weapons of the original, while preserving its mass and aesthetics. This IIC upgrade utilizes an Endo Steel chassis and twelve tons of Ferro-Fibrous armor, while also making use of twelve double heat sinks . ""

Edited by MavRCK, 26 August 2013 - 12:08 PM.

[Dawnstealer]

Isn't the whole point that the Clans are far superior to the IS mechs? I mean...this is SUPPOSED to be a steamroller, peoples. It's not until the IS starts adapting Clan tech (and Clan Wolf turns coat) that the IS starts to get something like an upper hand.

[Aym]

Well this won't be an issue till 2015 I figure.

[Kenyon Burguess]

just hand over the clan tech for c-bills and its all balanced for everyone....except for the horrible hit boxes the clan mechs will suffer. vulture and madcat im looking right at your side torsos lmao

[CyclonerM]

Geist Null, on 26 August 2013 - 02:31 PM, said:

just hand over the clan tech for c-bills and its all balanced for everyone....except for the horrible hit boxes the clan mechs will suffer. vulture and madcat im looking right at your side torsos lmao

Well,if they make the Timberwolf's hitboxes like MW4 its "bunny-ears" will have a separeted hitbox, so if you destroy one of them the entire side torso does not blow up.

[Skadi]

*Clears throat*
In the event I get a Direwolf, I will be equipting it with a clan weapon by the name of the "UAC20"
Some of you folks may be familiar with this weapon, for you who arnt, it is a AC20 better in everyway,
It fires faster, it takes less spots, it weighs less, and the Dire Wolf can hold four of them.

This mech weapon cambo will simply END any mech unfortunate enough to see it longer than say, two seconds.

[CG Oglethorpe Kerensky]

They aren't going to be overpowered because they aren't coming.

[Zolaz]

Well, since there arent different chassis for mechs they will probably cost 3 times their value. That should balance out how many of them you see. You thought saving up for an Assault was bad before. Wait till you have to pay 29 million X 3. 90 million for 3 of them?

[Guido]

Zolaz, on 26 August 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

Well, since there arent different chassis for mechs they will probably cost 3 times their value. That should balance out how many of them you see. You thought saving up for an Assault was bad before. Wait till you have to pay 29 million X 3. 90 million for 3 of them?

Cbill cost isn't a balance; it barely was when there was heavy repair and rearm penalties. All triple Cbill cost will do is make it so the veterans have new tools to hammer the beginners with. PGI started the cadet bonus to put an end to that exact trend back in December '12. Back then, as you would see with this idea, there was/will-be a large number of new players quitting the game due to 50 game loss streaks at the hands of early bird players that have accumulated the funds to buy the mechs and customize them as soon as the mechs release.

Z0MBIE Y0SHI, on 25 August 2013 - 11:08 PM, said:

So many people capable of predicting the future. Don't suppose I could get powerball numbers outta you guys, could I?

I don't predict the future so much as watch the repeating patterns. I've been playing and testing this game since it's closed beta, and I've seen all the changes, fixes, rebalances, and introductions of new mechs and equipment from the start. LRMs were never as bad as in closed beta, when they used to arc high and drop vertically onto your mech and caused a cockpit kill. Light mechs and the lag shield they wield was far more tolerable when we had knock-down physics. And the most relevant to this conversation is the changes that structural augmentations created, when suddenly the mechkillers at the time (Gausscats) could mount more than just 2 gauss and a few tons of ammo (evolving into to the Gauss/PPC builds you see today), also bringing lights bristling with medium lasers instead of small lasers while running cooler, and the introduction of the dual AC20 mechs (there's plenty more changes to list, but we'll stick with those). Those mech builds didn't exist prior to that point.

I see the clan tech introduction as much the same as the impact that FF armor, Endo-steel, DBL Heatsink, and ECM had, but with a larger scope. That's not so much a prediction as an analysis of MWO mech build evolution. Anytime you present something that allows more gain for less sacrifice, it becomes heavily utilized, and clan tech is the avatar of battletech-more-for-less.

[RANDALLFLAGG]

So after reading all these, all I see is one ugly truth sticking in my face. Gonna have to pay dearly for clan tech...everyone will only want Clan Tech...and there will be no advantages in utilizing and surely no incentive [yet] to run IS equipment. Why cant there be some sort of incentive to run IS tech? The best ideas I've read here are to limit Clan Tonnage in a specific ratio... maybe 75 to 80 percent? That would satisfy the cannonites....or ratio the number of pilots each side...12 IS vs 9 Clan and make the weapons as TT. Base it all on 3050....done. sounds as good as anything else already said here imho. Always have that ratio fixed...on tonnage or on participants....but that is simple and easy.

[qultar]

HAS UncleClint, on 25 August 2013 - 09:52 PM, said:

They will be OP if clan LRMs turn out to function like they did in TT.

Weigh half the tonnage of IS (c-LRM20 weighs 5 tons instead of 10) is already freakin me out, but the worst of it all is THEY GOT NO MINIMUM RANGE!!!

Now just imagine what you could do...

but they also only fire in LOS no indirect fire

[qultar]

RANDALLFLAGG, on 26 August 2013 - 07:02 PM, said:

So after reading all these, all I see is one ugly truth sticking in my face. Gonna have to pay dearly for clan tech...everyone will only want Clan Tech...and there will be no advantages in utilizing and surely no incentive [yet] to run IS equipment. Why cant there be some sort of incentive to run IS tech? The best ideas I've read here are to limit Clan Tonnage in a specific ratio... maybe 75 to 80 percent? That would satisfy the cannonites....or ratio the number of pilots each side...12 IS vs 9 Clan and make the weapons as TT. Base it all on 3050....done. sounds as good as anything else already said here imho. Always have that ratio fixed...on tonnage or on participants....but that is simple and easy.

if they go by cannon it will be clan has 10 man vs 12 IS also range is still limited by the game having poor targeting 1200m is {Scrap}

[Mechwarrior0311]

Atomicoxen, on 17 August 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

but MWO is a business first and this makes cents.

I really disagree with that, as an older generation gamer who has been alive for the entire progression from Atari onward to now.

A game is a GAME first and a business second. Once you start putting the business first, you start to lose your soul, and the game does as well.

[Guile1x]

The invasion is going to be amazing.

also, I can't wait to drop a couple of ERMLs into the heart of all my centurions !!!

[Talrich]

A key clan advantage, which wasn't on page one at least, is that clan XL engines only use two critical slots per side torso, and it takes 3 engine critical hits to destroy a mech.

That means that clan mechs can and will run XL engines with almost no loss of survivability.

Clan LRMs with no minimum range are the other issue that I find hard to ignore.

[Strum Wealh]

qultar, on 27 August 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

but they also only fire in LOS no indirect fire

Standard Clan LRMs do have indirect fire capability.

It's the ATMs (Advanced Tactical Missiles; developed by Clan Coyote in 3060) and Streak LRMs (developed by Clan Coyote in 3057) that cannot do indirect fire.