447 replies to this topic

[StandingCow]

repete, on 23 August 2013 - 07:17 PM, said:

Trends accounts for spaces and uses comma separated values (CSV), so if you compare:

mechwarrior online (Which I think is most appropriate)
world of tanks
star citizen
war thunder

...you get the following:

http://www.google.co...%2C+war+thunder

Cool, thanks for that. MWO still shows a downward decline. I am sure this recent drama will spike it back up, but then it will probably take an even harder dive.

Like I said, I have seen some of the most loyal MWO supporters turn on it in the past few days.

[Mystere]

I stumbled onto this topic via a link posted by StandingCow in that 160 page (and apparently still growing) thread. As such, blame him for the fire and brimstone I am about to unleash on you puny mortals ...




Seriously though, I am here to offer a few words of caution: Please tread very carefully.

I understand the goals you are trying to achieve. But, the means being proposed to achieve them:

• boycotting launch day
  
• boycotting the launch event
  
• intentionally crashing systems
  
• intentionally mass joining and then mass quitting matches as they are about to start
  
• publicly disparaging PGI (and as a consequence also the game)

can and will have unintended consequences. Do you know what those are? Do you know the collateral damage that might result because of those very actions?

Once again, please tread very carefully.

Edited by Mystere, 23 August 2013 - 11:15 PM.

[StandingCow]

Mystere, on 23 August 2013 - 11:13 PM, said:

I stumbled onto this topic via a link posted by StandingCow in that 160 page (and apparently still growing) thread. As such, blame him for the fire and brimstone I am about to unleash on you puny mortals ...




Seriously though, I am here to offer a word of caution ...

I understand the goals you are trying to achieve. But, the means being proposed to achieve them:

• boycotting launch day
  
• boycotting the launch event
  
• intentionally crashing systems
  
• intentionally mass joining and then mass quitting matches as they are about to start
  
• publicly disparaging PGI (and as a consequence also the game)

can and will have unintended consequences. Do you know what those are? Do you know the collateral damage that might result because of those very actions?


Please tread very carefully.

We do not support intentionally crashing systems... if it does happen it will just let PGI know they aren't ready for launch day.

[Mystere]

StandingCow, on 23 August 2013 - 11:14 PM, said:

We do not support intentionally crashing systems... if it does happen it will just let PGI know they aren't ready for launch day.

Did I misread Wiz then, especially given the "lol" comment?

Quote

As for intentionally crashing systems? lol, that would certainly serve its purpose if we united all the disgruntled customers and their servers crashed, but its more about showing the numbers in a way that they will understand, and cannot ignore.

Edited by Mystere, 23 August 2013 - 11:40 PM.

[Mystere]

I think this is a better location to continue so ...

From that giant forum:

StandingCow, on 23 August 2013 - 11:27 PM, said:

It isn't based on disruption, which is why he also adds "or play the matches out" if disruption were part of it, he wouldn't have said that. What we DO want to be noticed, is the amount of players that leave, by PGI since they monitor player numbers on the servers.

I regularly talk to the protest creator, don't try and put "words into his mouth" because you didn't understand it.

This comment attracted my attention and reminded me of something:

slide, on 22 August 2013 - 06:11 AM, said:

I would like to suggest 1 more thing to increase the WTF factor.

After the drop, assuming we don't crash the servers, everyone partaking who gets in to a game needs to disconnect immediately after start up. And preferably not come back for while. Maybe do this every hour on the hour for a whole day shifting from peak times through out the world. Should play havoc with their servers.

Creating a disruption once every hour for an entire day will in all likelihood not be a big deal for the players affected. But, similar to what happens in a whole lot of protests, a number will break off from the main group and create havoc. It is those people that are of concern.

[Shael]

I would like to make a couple of points I would like to make.

• I do not actually believe that this protest will cause the PGI/IGP servers to crash. They would have to be extremely stupid to not be prepared for an increase in traffic to the servers as well as spikes in the number of players dropping in the weeks leading up to Launch.
  
• UNITANDDROP: will be one singular drop and that is all. The whole goal is to show PGI/IGP the number of upset members in the community.
  
• The goal of this is to show PGI/IGP the financial investment that this group of customers has invested in MWO.
  
• The actual drop will we before the official Launch of MWO.

[Duncan Longwood]

Omni 13, on 22 August 2013 - 05:11 AM, said:

You all seem to think that since you put money into the game (either through founders or other purchases) that you're entitled to a say in how the game is developed when in fact your really not, You're consumers not share holders you don't have a say in the development. If you want them to stop instead of recording something that will change nothing you'll have to stop giving them money that mean ACTUALLY stopping not just saying you're going to on the forums. [edit] you really use the word promise too much saying you won't do something isn't the same as making a promise

We may not be shareholders but we are stakeholders. Lrn2Business brah.
Stakeholder analysis

Stakeholder analysis is a term that refers to the action of analyzing the attitudes of stakeholders towards something (most frequently a project). It is frequently used during the preparation phase of a project to assess the attitudes of the stakeholders regarding the potential changes. Stakeholder analysis can be done once or on a regular basis to track changes in stakeholder attitudes over time.^{[citation needed]}
A stakeholder is any person or organization, who can be positively or negatively impacted by, or cause an impact on the actions of a company, government, or organization. Types of stakeholders are:

• Primary stakeholders: are those ultimately affected, either positively or negatively by an organization's actions.
  
• Secondary stakeholders: are the ‘intermediaries’, that is, persons or organizations who are indirectly affected by an organization's actions.
  
• Key stakeholders: (who can also belong to the first two groups) have significant influence upon or importance within an organization.

Therefore, stakeholder analysis has the goal of developing cooperation between the stakeholder and the project team and, ultimately, assuring successful outcomes for the project. Stakeholder analysis is performed when there is a need to clarify the consequences of envisaged changes, or at the start of new projects and in connection with organizational changes generally. It is important to identify all stakeholders for the purpose of identifying their success criteria and turning these into quality goals. (Rodi et al, 2012)


Information is ammunition, son.

[Lazy Eye]

Rhinehardt Ritter, on 23 August 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

Mr Anders

You don't know much about Information technology do you? My goal here is to educate not insult. Please do not take it that way.

You what? I'm sorry, but you're just talking ****.

For this to be considered a denial-of-service attack, there would have to be intent. It has been made VERY clear many times that the intent is to provide PGI with an undeniable indication of the level of support for the various groups who're dissatisfied with the way they've been treated by PGI (no, this is not just those affiliated with #saveMWO). The ONLY person to mention "denial-of-service" is YOU.

If anyone DID try to prosecute the participants for organising a co-ordinated login/drop, they themselves would be open to accusations of malicious prosecution.

And before you say anything about "me not knowing anything about IT", I'm a professional software engineer, with a CV that is wall-to-wall blue-chip, including a stint with a leading network security company.

PGI have themselves stated that one of the biggest problems the matchmaker has is when there aren't ENOUGH people in the queue. If this 'co-ordinated login & drop' DID overwhelm the servers, that would be useful information to the devs anyway, because, you know, THIS IS STILL IN BETA (see how I use your own ******** argument against you?)

It is my professional opinion that you're talking **** and that YOU don't know anything about IT.

If you don't want to participate, fine, good for you, but don't spread falsehoods.

[Mista Whizzard]

bump for the update.

[Werewolf486 ScorpS]

So what is the date? I can drop one time and then go play MWLL for a while till PGI gets it.

http://forum.mechliv...ic,19022.0.html

Pick your download, it's free, it's fun, it's got it's bugs, but the community will help you fix whatever you need. Go check it out, drop enjoy, blow up stuff! A real F2P!

Edited by Werewolf486, 24 August 2013 - 09:11 AM.

[sj mausgmr]

Werewolf486, on 24 August 2013 - 09:09 AM, said:

So what is the date? I can drop one time and then go play MWLL for a while till PGI gets it.

http://forum.mechliv...ic,19022.0.html

Pick your download, it's free, it's fun, it's got it's bugs, but the community will help you fix whatever you need. Go check it out, drop enjoy, blow up stuff! A real F2P!

This is actually a great way of achieving what's set out in this thread. By moving to MWLL, even temporarily, we prove as a customer base that regardless of what happens with MWO, we still love mechwarrior, and will do what it takes to find a greatly enjoyable experience within that Universe regardless of what it takes.

By resurrecting the competitive and public scene of that game, we prove that a movement like this, has the power to provide both life to games, and death.

[ARCTICF0X]

I will stand with you...

[Anders]

Mystere, on 23 August 2013 - 11:13 PM, said:

• boycotting launch day
  
• boycotting the launch event
  
• intentionally crashing systems
  
• intentionally mass joining and then mass quitting matches as they are about to start
  
• publicly disparaging PGI (and as a consequence also the game)

can and will have unintended consequences. Do you know what those are? Do you know the collateral damage that might result because of those very actions?


Once again, please tread very carefully.

Mr. Mystere:

Instead of attempting to frighten readers of the thread with your vague prophecies of "unintended consequences" why don't you articulate what you are thinking will happen as a result of this thread. I'd love to know what you're thinking, because I cannot intuit it from what you've written.

Robotically Yours,
Anders

[Mystere]

Anders, on 24 August 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

Mr. Mystere:

Instead of attempting to frighten readers of the thread with your vague prophecies of "unintended consequences" why don't you articulate what you are thinking will happen as a result of this thread. I'd love to know what you're thinking, because I cannot intuit it from what you've written.

Robotically Yours,
Anders

You mistake my intentions. I am not here to frighten. I am here to offer words of caution. Having said that ...

The specified goal of your protest is to help (save) the game. That is well and good.

But as you know, by their very nature, the success of protests is measured by the amount of disruption they create. A good enough amount of disruption can and will probably help achieve you goal. But, both the law of diminishing returns and the law of unintended consequences come into play the more you go beyond that same "good enough" amount of disruption. The problem is, just what is "good enough"? Finally, even though you may be able to gauge and control your own actions, gauging and controlling the reactions of people outside of your core protest group is much harder. Your actions may also result in collateral damage that you did not plan for.

Keeping in mind my general comments above, items 1,2, and 5 will result in extreme embarrassment (well deserved or otherwise) for PGI. This by itself may not be bad. But unfortunately, it will also be an extreme embarrassment for the game, which in turn might result in potential players being turned off from playing.

Item 3 might be viewed in some sectors as -- or worse, be manipulated to look like -- a DDOS attack, whether that was the intention or not. You don't want governments -- and worse, lawyers -- to get involved. They will have a field day with the participants.

Item 4, especially when done on or soon after launch, and depending on duration and frequency, can upset a lot of new players. Disrupt them enough and they eventually might think that the existing player base is full of a$$hats out to ruin their fun and as such may just decide to leave.

Please tread very carefully.

sj mausgmr, on 24 August 2013 - 09:21 AM, said:

By resurrecting the competitive and public scene of that game, we prove that a movement like this, has the power to provide both life to games, and death.

It's intentionally causing the "death" part that is a cause of concern, especially if your stated goal was to save MWO in the first place.

Edited by Mystere, 24 August 2013 - 05:47 PM.

[sj mausgmr]

Mystere, on 24 August 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

It's intentionally causing the "death" part that is a cause of concern, especially if your stated goal was to save MWO in the first place.

This is obvious in any situation where a pressure group which expects results based on population. If they can make an impact to a game based on their mere presence in a game, from logging in to represent numbers, and logging out to take those numbers away, if those numbers are so vast to provoke a development team to react, then they can commit a game to the grave, without a doubt.

The idea of having people play a little MWLL on the side for a different experience, is that we can still keep people involved and interested in the Mechwarrior license, and community, whilst enjoying a game that offers a different play experience. There is no doubt that a lot of people are disenfranchised with the game at the moment. If all those people, and more, move away to a different game, and place their interest there, that is no good for the mechwarrior community at all. It is much better for them to stay playing a mechwarrior title, because then, they will always be around to focus on the best mechwarrior experience to date, regardless of where it comes from.

Edited by sj mausgmr, 24 August 2013 - 06:11 PM.

[Anders]

Mystere, on 24 August 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

You mistake my intentions. I am not here to frighten. I am here to offer words of caution. Having said that ...

The specified goal of your protest is to help (save) the game. That is well and good.

But as you know, by their very nature, the success of protests is measured by the amount of disruption they create. A good enough amount of disruption can and will probably help achieve you goal. But, both the law of diminishing returns and the law of unintended consequences come into play the more you go beyond that same "good enough" amount of disruption. The problem is, just what is "good enough"? Finally, even though you may be able to gauge and control your own actions, gauging and controlling the reactions of people outside of your core protest group is much harder. Your actions may also result in collateral damage that you did not plan for.

Keeping in mind my general comments above, items 1,2, and 5 will result in extreme embarrassment (well deserved or otherwise) for PGI. This by itself may not be bad. But unfortunately, it will also be an extreme embarrassment for the game, which in turn might result in potential players being turned off from playing.

Item 3 might be viewed in some sectors as -- or worse, be manipulated to look like -- a DDOS attack, whether that was the intention or not. You don't want governments -- and worse, lawyers -- to get involved. They will have a field day with the participants.

Item 4, especially when done on or soon after launch, and depending on duration and frequency, can upset a lot of new players. Disrupt them enough and they eventually might think that the existing player base is full of a$$hats out to ruin their fun and as such may just decide to leave.

Please tread very carefully.

Mystere:

There you go again - you suggest caution and hesitation when none are warranted. Caution, hesitation, an unwillingness to act, a wait and see approach has delivered us to this state in the game. How, pray tell, are we going to "intentionally crash systems?" If you mean "Play the game in such numbers that crash the system," who's fault is that?

Does it look like we need a spotter for this event? Are you going to spot us in case we fall? Do we need a safety net in place?

We appreciate your faux concern, but it's not needed or warranted. Stop posting in this thread with your continued fear mongering. Your attempts to do so are rather transparent at this point.

Robotically Yours,
Anders.

[Shael]

I would like to thank everyone who has posted in this thread for having an conducting an intelligent discussion without the usual flaming and insults that are sometimes very apparent in the MWO forums.

I appreciate the discussions that are supportive and behind the idea presented by Mista Whizzard and we both are thankful for the support of the community.

I also appreciate the constructive criticism and advice from the community who are concerned about how our efforts could be construed and how it may affect the game and the community.

Please know we are listening to your criticism and we do take it on board.

For those members of community that support this endeavor I would ask you pass this thread onto your friends and fellow mechwarriors and spread the word.

For those members of the community who have concerns about this endeavor we respect your opinion and please if you have constructive criticism continue to keep posting but I would ask that everyone who is watching and posting in this thread keeps the posts polite and please don't lower yourself to personally attacking anyone regardless of their point of view.

[Might]

Refer to the OP, has been updated with all the relevent info

[StandingCow]

If you use the new unite and drop sig make sure to link it to this thread.

[st1x]

I am behind this.

I love this game, i love playing with my friends and i love the passion that the community can summon when they have been wronged.

i will be there with lots of cans of monster and i will be logging in on the hour every hour for 24 hours to show my support.

Respect and Regards,

Nic 'St1x' Whatmore