10367 replies to this topic

[Tazer Face]

Void Angel, on 11 June 2022 - 01:23 PM, said:

No 'mech will be immune to any weapon, but you've missed a weapon stat when you plugged that LPPC into your Battlemech - minimum range. Any "normal" PPC (i.e. not Snub or ER) will do no damage within 90 meters.

Light PPCs dont show any minimum range in the mechlab at all.

[Void Angel]

Tazer Face, on 11 June 2022 - 04:31 PM, said:

Light PPCs dont show any minimum range in the mechlab at all.

Ah, you're right - I thought they did. I fact, they specifically say they don't have a minimum range.

In that case, it's hit registration. No 'mechs have "weapon resistance," but sometimes you'll see problems with hits not registering, or not doing enough damage. While not common, hit reg errors happen more when you or your opponent have high pings and/or unsteady internet connection. It can also occur against targets with small hitboxes - if your round hits at the border of two hitboxes, the game can become confused as to where the hit landed, and sometimes lose hits. Ravens used to be terrible about this, to the point that the devs had to rework their hitboxes.

Additionally, if the enemy is yellow already, you can have hits that do connect and deal damage, but fail to change the color of the enemy 'mech's paper doll.

Edited by Void Angel, 11 June 2022 - 11:59 PM.

[M E X]

Void Angel, on 11 June 2022 - 05:46 PM, said:

Ah, you're right - I thought they did. I fact, they specifically say they don't have a minimum range...

Accourding to Light Particle Projector Cannon - BattleTechWiki (sarna.net)
Light PPC should have a minimum range !

Maybe the ERROR is in the description in the mechlab ? ;-P

As too many were playing with Lppc in the past, I asume that originally Lppc had no minimimum range in MW0.
And when they decided to change that to the right "canonical" behavior, the PIGs forgot to change the description too ?

Edited by M E X, 13 June 2022 - 01:35 AM.

[Gagis]

Removal of the minimum range was one of the ways in which LPPC were buffed as part of rebalancing efforts, to make them worth using. This is fairly recent and they indeed do not currently have a minimum range.

Edited by Gagis, 13 June 2022 - 02:04 AM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

Gagis, on 13 June 2022 - 02:04 AM, said:

Removal of the minimum range was one of the ways in which LPPC were buffed as part of rebalancing efforts, to make them worth using. This is fairly recent and they indeed do not currently have a minimum range.

This is correct. They have one in the lore and they had one here, but it was removed to make them more useful in MWO based on feedback from the Cauldron. I think this was about a year ago?

[w0qj]

For update MWO/Cauldron major weapon behavior change summary since April 2021 and onwards,
please refer to this URL link for the update info:
https://mwomercs.com...auldron-changes

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===========================
Major weapon behavior changes: <as of this writing--might be outdated over time!>
===========================

IS: STD Large Lasers: increased to firing 4x at once without ghost heat penalty.

IS: STD PPC: increased to firing 3x at once without ghost heat penalty.
IS: STD PPC: does slight (exponential decay) damage below minimum range (similar to Clan LRM).

IS: Light-PPC: no minimum range anymore.

IS: Snub-Nose-PPC: decreased back down to firing 2x at once without ghost heat penalty (post-June-2022 patch)
IS: Snub-Nose-PPC: does splash damage (similar to Clan ER-PPC), damage profile 2.5 / 10 / 2.5

IS: Light-Gauss: no longer part of ghost heat linked penalty group of IS Gauss Family & IS PPC Family.

IS: STD SRM4: increased to firing 5x at once without ghost heat penalty.

IS: Rocket Launcher: does slight (exponential decay) damage below minimum range (similar to Clan LRM).

IS: CASE: now 0 tons, still consume 1x critical slot. Equippable in Arm, Leg, Left/Right Torso.

IS & Clan: AMS ammo does not explode anymore upon crit.

IS & Clan: MASC redline threshold increased to 85% (from 75%); MASC lasts longer (fill rate decreased).

Clan: ER-Micro-Laser: changed to "no" ghost heat penalty (fire as many as you want at once!)

Clan: Micro-Pulse-Laser: increased to firing 12x at once without ghost heat penalty.
Clan: Micro-Pulse-Laser: no longer part of ghost heat linked penalty group of Clan ER-Micro-Laser.

Clan: AC5: increased to firing 4x AC5 at once without ghost heat penalty.
Clan: AC5: decreased to 1x projectile shell per shot (down from 2x).

Clan: AC10: decreased to 2x projectile shells per shot (down from 3x).

Clan: AC20: increased to firing 2x AC20 at once without ghost heat penalty.
Clan: AC20: decreased to 3x projectile shells per shot (down from 4x).

Clan: ATM3: increased to firing 6x ATM3 at once without ghost heat penalty.

<as of this writing--might be outdated over time!>

Edited by w0qj, 28 June 2022 - 02:11 PM.

[TruMantas]

Do Tags interact with Artemis, regarding lock on time and missile grouping? The Artemis tooltip says it doesn't interact with NARC, but doesn't specify anything regarding Tags. Testing in the mech builder simulation thing feels like they do, but it could be just confirmation bias.

[ScrapIron Prime]

TruMantas, on 25 June 2022 - 06:24 AM, said:

Do Tags interact with Artemis, regarding lock on time and missile grouping? The Artemis tooltip says it doesn't interact with NARC, but doesn't specify anything regarding Tags. Testing in the mech builder simulation thing feels like they do, but it could be just confirmation bias.

Yes, TAG stacks with Artemis, it’s not just confirmation bias. You should also test out just plain old shooting the target with lasers, as I’ve found landing a hit on them speeds up the missile lock too.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

TruMantas, on 25 June 2022 - 06:24 AM, said:

Do Tags interact with Artemis, regarding lock on time and missile grouping? The Artemis tooltip says it doesn't interact with NARC, but doesn't specify anything regarding Tags. Testing in the mech builder simulation thing feels like they do, but it could be just confirmation bias.

No, TAG does not stack with Artemis. TAG only has an effect when the unit using it is providing indirect fire locks for other units that don't have LOS on the target. Artemis IV only works within LOS and only reduces the missile spread. Within LOS missile locks are as fast as possible.

Reference: https://mwomercs.com...atch-notes/2251

ScrapIron Prime, on 25 June 2022 - 07:55 AM, said:

Yes, TAG stacks with Artemis, it’s not just confirmation bias. You should also test out just plain old shooting the target with lasers, as I’ve found landing a hit on them speeds up the missile lock too.

Absolutely no. See above.

[TheCaptainJZ]

TAG might be making the enemy easier to get the initial lock, especially if you're hitting a mech with ECM and TAG is speeding up the lock-on.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

TheCaptainJZ, on 27 June 2022 - 04:57 AM, said:

TAG might be making the enemy easier to get the initial lock, especially if you're hitting a mech with ECM and TAG is speeding up the lock-on.

TAG may make a ECM/Stealth cloaked mech targetable, but it does not speed up your own locks.

[Void Angel]

People are remembering the old stacking rules and TAG functionality from before the 2019 lock-on overhaul, and conflating those with the current system.

Edited by Void Angel, 27 June 2022 - 09:18 AM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Void Angel, on 27 June 2022 - 09:15 AM, said:

People are remembering the old stacking rules and TAG functionality from before the 2019 lock-on overhaul, and conflating those with the current system.

Yeah, sorry, I was referring to missile scatter only, not lock time. It tightens scatter indirect, so your Artemis benefits from clustered shots whether direct or indirect. Should have made that clear, my bad.

As for lock time... the best way to speed it up is to get closer or extend your max sensor range (since lock time is dependent on [distance to target] divided by [max sensor range]).

But I've found that if I'm using Artemis LRMs, I don't bring a TAG. Instead I bring lasers. Shooting the target locks them up quickly, follow it with missiles.

[Void Angel]

Max sensor range applies only to indirect locks, although it does help you to target enemies under ECM cover if you didn't bring a TAG. You should bring some lasers (I prefer Mediums) to discourage Lights and give you something to do if you manage to burn through all of your ammo, but TAG remains both an aid to other LRM boats and the only hard counter to ECM that most LRMs have. I think you'll have more problems in matches from not being able to lock onto an ECM opponent than you'll have from lacking one Medium Laser.

PS: To be clear, shooting someone with lasers helps to lock targets only in that your reticle will be pointing at those targets while the lasers burn. They have no affect on lock-on speed whatsoever.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Void Angel, on 27 June 2022 - 06:53 PM, said:

PS: To be clear, shooting someone with lasers helps to lock targets only in that your reticle will be pointing at those targets while the lasers burn. They have no affect on lock-on speed whatsoever.

That has not been my experience. Anything I put LRMs on has a hefty backup of 4-6 lasers capable of hitting at range, and blasting someone does seem to lock them up nearly instantly as opposed to just harmlessly staring at them which takes longer. I've tested this in both private matches and testing grounds. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I'll keep blasting and then pumping them full of missiles regardless.

[Void Angel]

ScrapIron Prime, on 27 June 2022 - 07:48 PM, said:

That has not been my experience. Anything I put LRMs on has a hefty backup of 4-6 lasers capable of hitting at range, and blasting someone does seem to lock them up nearly instantly as opposed to just harmlessly staring at them which takes longer. I've tested this in both private matches and testing grounds. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I'll keep blasting and then pumping them full of missiles regardless.

Yeah, I tested it before posting the above, just in case. The Patch Notes and my testing both confirm - lasers don't help you lock targets. They never have. Target lock-on speed is a flat rate at all ranges with direct line of sight; sensor range matters only when you are trying to lock without direct LoS - unless a teammate is using TAG.

[Horseman]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 26 June 2022 - 10:25 PM, said:

TAG only has an effect when the unit using it is providing indirect fire locks for other units that don't have LOS on the target.

TAG has another effect, and that is breaking enemy ECM at range - which for a LRM boat is still useful.

[Void Angel]

Horseman, on 28 June 2022 - 10:55 AM, said:

TAG has another effect, and that is breaking enemy ECM at range - which for a LRM boat is still useful.

True. Though only lock-on times were being discussed, the post might have been misunderstood by a new player.

[TruMantas]

So, I tried a 6x cAC5 Dire Whale build... but it didn't feel good. On paper, cAC5s have great range, just under twice the cooldown of cAC2s for 2.5 the damage, and are light and small enough for a Dire Wolf to boat 6 of them. Should in theory be a good substitude for a UV, but it didnt quite click for me. Am I missing something?

[ScrapIron Prime]

TruMantas, on 30 June 2022 - 03:08 AM, said:

So, I tried a 6x cAC5 Dire Whale build... but it didn't feel good. On paper, cAC5s have great range, just under twice the cooldown of cAC2s for 2.5 the damage, and are light and small enough for a Dire Wolf to boat 6 of them. Should in theory be a good substitude for a UV, but it didnt quite click for me. Am I missing something?

Not surprising, everyone has their own sweet spot when it comes to armament. That particular build puts 30 points of damage downrange every 1.25 seconds or so. That will work over one target really well, but you need a bit of face time with them, and that invites return fire from his friends where you're not able to torso twist often to spread damage.

I think the key to playing that build well is to know when you've overstayed your welcome. When your target's friends start firing back, snap a shot or two their direction to make them duck and then you break line of sight.

EDIT... Page 500! Woo! Keep 'em coming!

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 30 June 2022 - 07:20 AM.