625 replies to this topic

[scgt1]

Thorn Hallis, on 09 December 2013 - 05:29 AM, said:

Because not many players will willingly enter a match knowing that their 'Mech and weapons are inferior by a wide margin?

How to fix this will be for PGI to implement a limit in how many Clan mechs can enter a match on each team. Problem solved
They should be a 1:1 match for every clan mech there is an oposite clan mech on the opposing team.

They weren't nerfed all these years in other mech games. They shouldn't be now.
Until they change something besides nerfing them You won't see a package icon under my name. As you can see I've been supporting them since day one. Castrating the dog is not the answer and if that's what they are going to do in the end then I will return the favor and keep my $240 and earn the damn things via c-bills.

[CoffiNail]

scgt1, on 25 January 2014 - 06:56 AM, said:

How to fix this will be for PGI to implement a limit in how many Clan mechs can enter a match on each team. Problem solved
They should be a 1:1 match for every clan mech there is an oposite clan mech on the opposing team.

This does not always work though. As even in CW not all matches are sync drops of opposing 12 man teams, and PUGing will still happen a lot in different forms. I have seen, and been part of a lance of coordinated team members who will be able to get 6-10+ of the games kills. With Inner Sphere technology. You want ClanTech to be normal, it would make the organized units steamroll, powercreep will set in and most of the IS chassis will become obsolete aside from some pro-House lore fans.

Nah, this 'nerf' is a good thing, Players who are interested in the Clans, get slightly improved tech as it should be, but the trade off is a higher skill to do the maximum damage output of the improved tech. 10 ClanTech mechs would cream 12, probably even 16 IS groups, unless the IS players were VERY organized.

I like these changes to the Clans. It will keep the flavour of the Clan lore with the members of the Warrior caste being very skilled Warriors, that the new warriors fresh from the sibkos are as skilled as some of the more elite of the Inner Sphere.

CGB when they have sibkin go in to their Trial of Position/Entry for the Clan. We do not go easy, but it is a fair fight and the Sibkin gets to choose his opponent. There are a good few times that a sibkin has to go into their trial a couple times because they still were not trained well enough to win their ToP. This does three things. Makes sure we have decent players in our group, and those who are new, or lack skills are trained and assisted to improve their skills if they are willing for the help. This also often gives us longer term members, as it shows dedication to the game, clan and community the unit has developed. and three. Also gives the unit a decent level of Clan of Kerensky feel.

We do not always win matches, of course sometime you get out played, maneuvered, tactics, or people on the other team are simply better skilled. There are many rounds through where a lance does get the majority of the kills and damage in the match.

So, why 'nerf' the ClanTech? Because the Clans are not about better tech, they are about better pilots. Skilled pilots that are battle ready the first time they even hit the real battlefield. They have been shot at and shot live ammunition. So, this is how our MWO Clans will be, and I for one will be proud to call myself a Clansmen with my Timber Wolf with slightly better tech than those of the IS, but requiring my 3 years worth of MechWarrior skills to maximize my Mech to it's maximum efficiency.

[ssm]

scgt1, on 25 January 2014 - 06:56 AM, said:

How to fix this will be for PGI to implement a limit in how many Clan mechs can enter a match on each team. Problem solved
They should be a 1:1 match for every clan mech there is an oposite clan mech on the opposing team.

They weren't nerfed all these years in other mech games. They shouldn't be now.
Until they change something besides nerfing them You won't see a package icon under my name. As you can see I've been supporting them since day one. Castrating the dog is not the answer and if that's what they are going to do in the end then I will return the favor and keep my $240 and earn the damn things via c-bills.

All these years other mech games were oriented towards single player experience.

Your solution would play right into the reason why PGI intends to nerf Clantech - If you implement 1;1 Clan mech per team rule nobody except few roleplaying grognards (soon to leave raging, because it's not fun to be cannon fodder) would use IS mechs, period.

[GalaxyBluestar]

scgt1, on 25 January 2014 - 06:56 AM, said:

How to fix this will be for PGI to implement a limit in how many Clan mechs can enter a match on each team. Problem solved
They should be a 1:1 match for every clan mech there is an oposite clan mech on the opposing team.

no... you don't balance by saying hey you wanna get ahead use one of these but don't worry the other side will have it too. that's a direct route to making one tech invalidate another.

CoffiNail, on 25 January 2014 - 09:04 AM, said:

This does not always work though. As even in CW not all matches are sync drops of opposing 12 man teams, and PUGing will still happen a lot in different forms. I have seen, and been part of a lance of coordinated team members who will be able to get 6-10+ of the games kills. With Inner Sphere technology. You want ClanTech to be normal, it would make the organized units steamroll, powercreep will set in and most of the IS chassis will become obsolete aside from some pro-House lore fans.

So you’re suggesting it’s organisation that makes them OP? so why nerf clans when it’s really a MM problem?

and yet it's the inferior tech that's disorganised only...

CoffiNail, on 25 January 2014 - 09:04 AM, said:

Nah, this 'nerf' is a good thing, Players who are interested in the Clans, get slightly improved tech as it should be, but the trade off is a higher skill to do the maximum damage output of the improved tech. 10 ClanTech mechs would cream 12, probably even 16 IS groups, unless the IS players were VERY organized.

CoffiNail, on 25 January 2014 - 09:04 AM, said:

I like these changes to the Clans. It will keep the flavour of the Clan lore

what clan lore? did they not turn up until selling all their inventory to the IS beforehand and then at somepoint adapeted the same . were omnipods just like IS hardpoints? hell i could go on but there's 0 lore being implemented, it's just a 3d model and name with everything being screwed about with so that it fits to PGI's feeble alpha 3 mech tech 12vs12 stale deathmatch arena {clan varients...OMG} they haven't even prepaired faction aliance avatars over a month after anouncement.

CoffiNail, on 25 January 2014 - 09:04 AM, said:

with the members of the Warrior caste being very skilled Warriors, that the new warriors fresh from the sibkos are as skilled as some of the more elite of the Inner Sphere.

CGB when they have sibkin go in to their Trial of Position/Entry for the Clan. We do not go easy, but it is a fair fight and the Sibkin gets to choose his opponent. There are a good few times that a sibkin has to go into their trial a couple times because they still were not trained well enough to win their ToP. This does three things. Makes sure we have decent players in our group, and those who are new, or lack skills are trained and assisted to improve their skills if they are willing for the help. This also often gives us longer term members, as it shows dedication to the game, clan and community the unit has developed. and three. Also gives the unit a decent level of Clan of Kerensky feel.

We do not always win matches, of course sometime you get out played, maneuvered, tactics, or people on the other team are simply better skilled. There are many rounds through where a lance does get the majority of the kills and damage in the match.

So, why 'nerf' the ClanTech? Because the Clans are not about better tech, they are about better pilots. Skilled pilots that are battle ready the first time they even hit the real battlefield. They have been shot at and shot live ammunition. So, this is how our MWO Clans will be, and I for one will be proud to call myself a Clansmen with my Timber Wolf with slightly better tech than those of the IS, but requiring my 3 years worth of MechWarrior skills to maximize my Mech to it's maximum efficiency.

LOL you really think only better pilots of this game will have access and will be running clan mechs. Any newbie derp with money can have clan mechs now. it's nice that a few roleplayers are putting efforts in but it should be the devs responcibility to involve the players into the universe of their own game. PGI only think about money and the franchise be damned. you're whole fantasy of proven pilots is going out the window. they're "balancing" because they can't get their MM or lobbies or anything about the current state of the game fixed to repersent any clan functionality. so their breaking clan mechs to fit it in the random derp cue because everyone wether they have a brain or not should be allowed to go 1vs1 anything vs anything. an asymetrical balance is too much like hardwork nerf everything down to the same level. it's been hurting this game for a fair while {just look at missiles} because people can't be bothered being organised or L2P they want derp fest and clans will be broken down to cater for it.

That’s what stinks about the whole thing, the devs will totally fail trying to shoehorn clans into the current system. They’re not only going to fail at balance worse than ever but they're totally destroying the values/parameters of decades worth in an established franchise.

It’s impossible to balance clans without them still having OP capabilities or nerfing them so hard that their implementation will be a total waste and the few buyers will feel ripped off. they’re doing this whilst totally alienating clan loyalists and throwing into dispute the point of faction play altogether.

2014 is looking worse and so many can’t see it yet.

[scgt1]

ssm, on 25 January 2014 - 09:11 AM, said:

All these years other mech games were oriented towards single player experience.

Your solution would play right into the reason why PGI intends to nerf Clantech - If you implement 1;1 Clan mech per team rule nobody except few roleplaying grognards (soon to leave raging, because it's not fun to be cannon fodder) would use IS mechs, period.

I see your one of those on the forums with a reading comprehension problem....

That is not what I said.

[ssm]

scgt1, on 25 January 2014 - 08:16 PM, said:

I see your one of those on the forums with a reading comprehension problem....

That is not what I said.

Yes you did - even If PGI limited the number of Clan mech per team to 4, majority of players would like to use them instead of IS cannon fodder. So the choice would be easy - to enter a match either you wait (hours?) for slot for good mech that you want to play, or be forced to play bad mech that you don't.

So the PGI to actually keep the game alive would have to raise the limit. All the way to the maximum.

[Phantom360]

In my opinion clan mechs are already nerfed in the battletech universe as they are.
Eg.you've got your good old highlander with an even spread of weapons across its body, you take off a highlanders arms, you still have auto cannons/gauss rifle/SRM's to deal with on its torso's.
While with clan mechs, eg: the daishi have the majority if not all their weapons are located in the arms, take the left arm off a daishi and you've gotten rid of half it's fire power 2x ER large lasers 2x ER medium pulse lasers and a UAC5 take off the other arm and the great death gets degenerated in to a horrible LRM boat, with its only weapon being an LRM 10, easy pickings for any light mechs once they close range.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

Why nerf Clan tech?
why not just give incentive to playing Inner Sphere mechs.

1) add MRM (like the mrm40, one of the most powerful weapons in the inner sphere gave them the brawling power to take on clan mechs at equal tonnage) Also don't give Clan ECM or anything like it. They did not care for stealth tactics, they did not hide. They announced where they were and literally just back peddled in plain sight. (a good tactic the inner sphere used to stop the clan invasion, was using guerilla tactics, like hiding in mountain ranges and ambushing the clan with powered down mechs).

2) do not give Clan mechs pilot trees (most of their fighting abilities were in their advanced targeting computers and advanced weaponry)

3) Do not Allow Clan Assault mechs to que up against the inner sphere. (very rarely did the clans take anything bigger then a Mad Cat in a battle against the Inner Sphere). Save Clan Assault mechs for Clan on Clan battles.

4) do not give clan mechs the ability to customize...at all. Sure the Omni mechs had Pod technology, but rarely did they change their weapon load-outs because they did not think the inner sphere pilots we're a big enough threat on the battle field to optimize against.

5) If you dont at to go with #4, then instead allow Inner Sphere mechs to use Clan Weapons off clan mech parts that they have purchased (maybe an unreversable salvage)... end of problem

Edited by Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky, 26 January 2014 - 06:12 AM.

[D Sync]

The nerf to the clans makes them useless in this game. Can't wait to stomp the clans with IS only to lose the system to the clans anyhow.. confusing, I know.

[Alexander Steel]

Quote

2) do not give Clan mechs pilot trees (most of their fighting abilities were in their advanced targeting computers and advanced weaponry)

Did you ever play the original game or read the original lore? Clan warriors were better even without their tech than IS warriors. The Wolf's Dragoons were comprised of a group of freebirths ((who are as a group worse warriors and receive less training)) Wolf Clanners who showed up in the IS and were better than any other group they fought using standard IS equipment.

Heck in the RPG games being a clan warrior cost you points as a RACE option because they were better than normal humans. The same with Elementals and Clan Aerospace pilots. They are better than humans on a genetic breeding level.

Quote

3) Do not Allow Clan Assault mechs to que up against the inner sphere. (very rarely did the clans take anything bigger then a Mad Cat in a battle against the Inner Sphere). Save Clan Assault mechs for Clan on Clan battles.

Also not true. The reason you had fewer assault clan mechs in the novels and the like had nothing to do with that, but in general assault mechs are the rarest ((by far)) Battlemech around in the standard BT universe.

Edited by Alexander Steel, 29 January 2014 - 09:10 AM.

[taijutsufl]

I know this topic is kind of old, but here is a (maybe) novel idea for how to not nerf clan mechs and still have people play the IS side in battles.

Create an incentive for clanners to also play the IS side in some percentage of battles. For instance, say the ratio of clan mech matches (or hours, or points, or whatever) must be no more than 3:1 with the same stat for IS mechs for that player. If I play a clan mech for 3 hours, I must play an IS mech for at least 1 hour or suffer a penalty (-50% experience or no GXP or something along those lines).

For those aligned with an IS faction, the ratio can be reversed or something.

Just the start of an idea I thought I would share to see who flames it.

ps - I agree that clan units should always (mostly) fight outnumbered, and fight in stars instead of lances.

Edited by taijutsufl, 24 February 2014 - 05:46 AM.

[CyclonerM]

taijutsufl, on 24 February 2014 - 05:45 AM, said:

I know this topic is kind of old, but here is a (maybe) novel idea for how to not nerf clan mechs and still have people play the IS side in battles.

Create an incentive for clanners to also play the IS side in some percentage of battles. For instance, say the ratio of clan mech matches (or hours, or points, or whatever) must be no more than 3:1 with the same stat for IS mechs for that player. If I play a clan mech for 3 hours, I must play an IS mech for at least 1 hour or suffer a penalty (-50% experience or no GXP or something along those lines).

For those aligned with an IS faction, the ratio can be reversed or something.

Just the start of an idea I thought I would share to see who flames it.

ps - I agree that clan units should always (mostly) fight outnumbered, and fight in stars instead of lances.

So your solution is to make us Clansmen fighting for the IS too?

[taijutsufl]

CyclonerM, on 24 February 2014 - 06:14 AM, said:

So your solution is to make us Clansmen fighting for the IS too?

Basically yes, a sacrafice in order to preserve clan mechs and tech. Is it too much to ask? maybe it is.

I think there is a genuine concern that if clan mechs/tech are far superior to IS tech, no one will want to take the IS side. Another solution is to implement bots to play the IS side, which may be worth considering, but bots aren't as good as skilled people.

Just trying to come up with some ideas as I really don't like the 'make them equal' solution.

Let's hear more ideas for solutions as I believe the problem and discontent have been pretty fully expressed by now.

[CyclonerM]

taijutsufl, on 24 February 2014 - 06:20 AM, said:

Basically yes, a sacrafice in order to preserve clan mechs and tech. Is it too much to ask? maybe it is.

I think there is a genuine concern that if clan mechs/tech are far superior to IS tech, no one will want to take the IS side. Another solution is to implement bots to play the IS side, which may be worth considering, but bots aren't as good as skilled people.

Just trying to come up with some ideas as I really don't like the 'make them equal' solution.

Let's hear more ideas for solutions as I believe the problem and discontent have been pretty fully expressed by now.

I have posted in other threads my thoughts about the possible solution. You will forgive me if i am too lazy to post them again here, quiaff?

EDIT: oh well i guess i will post them again..

Simply put:
-10vs12
-Nerfs to the numbers only if necessary (ERPPC i look at you)
-Changing mainly the mechanics (good idea Paul for SSRMs, worse for CLRMs)
-Less tonnage available
-Homeless Bill's targeting computer system!
-Penalties for switching to a Clan faction (starting back from level 0, bondsman)
-you have to earn new currency (Honor points)
-Slow lights would force IS players to learn new roles..
-Zellbrigen rewards?
-Possibility (only) for high-ranking faction players and Wolf's Dragoons members to use Clan tech (but now the people bought the Clan packs and they will be able to use their new shining Omnies.. )
-OmniMechs "nerfed" compared to over-customizable BattleMechs
-Ghost Heat, lacking a better system;
-Less ammo for ton;
-Something else i have forgotten to mention...

Edited by CyclonerM, 24 February 2014 - 06:31 AM.

[Mazzyplz]

GalaxyBluestar, on 09 December 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

there's a way of doing this and i'll get back to you in this thread i just need some time to organise a possible risk/reward simulation of Zellbrigen that could be used in the game.

if you get any assists, you don't get money at the end of the match. 0 cbills. 0xp

only 1 kill 0 assist accepted. zellbrigen.

it's stupid as hell though, i'd sooner go for the tech nerf

taijutsufl, on 24 February 2014 - 06:20 AM, said:

Basically yes, a sacrafice in order to preserve clan mechs and tech. Is it too much to ask? maybe it is.

I think there is a genuine concern that if clan mechs/tech are far superior to IS tech, no one will want to take the IS side. Another solution is to implement bots to play the IS side, which may be worth considering, but bots aren't as good as skilled people.

Just trying to come up with some ideas as I really don't like the 'make them equal' solution.

Let's hear more ideas for solutions as I believe the problem and discontent have been pretty fully expressed by now.

ok but can you propose an actual GOOD idea? not just throaway brainfartin?

[CyclonerM]

Zellbrigen could actually be implemented but it would need some more complicated system, like a "targeting" key to designate your opponent (which could only be of the same or higher weight class) and other features to properly reward honorable behaviour while punishing abuse. Oh, and the Star Captain in charge of the binary/team should be able to declare a Grand Melee and throw out Zell against disonhorable opponents at expense of honor achieved ad the end of the match.

[taijutsufl]

CyclonerM, on 24 February 2014 - 06:36 AM, said:

Zellbrigen could actually be implemented but it would need some more complicated system, like a "targeting" key to designate your opponent (which could only be of the same or higher weight class) and other features to properly reward honorable behaviour while punishing abuse. Oh, and the Star Captain in charge of the binary/team should be able to declare a Grand Melee and throw out Zell against disonhorable opponents at expense of honor achieved ad the end of the match.

you are way further along on this thought process than I am (obviously). I was simply trying to address the issue of making clan mechs/tech equal. You've gone all the way to thinking about how to implement clan culture/honor. It would be great to see these elements in the game.

[Goosfraba]

CyclonerM, on 24 February 2014 - 06:36 AM, said:

Zellbrigen could actually be implemented but it would need some more complicated system, like a "targeting" key to designate your opponent (which could only be of the same or higher weight class) and other features to properly reward honorable behaviour while punishing abuse. Oh, and the Star Captain in charge of the binary/team should be able to declare a Grand Melee and throw out Zell against disonhorable opponents at expense of honor achieved ad the end of the match.

For each player who is willing to play by can rules there are 10 who just want to use the Timberwolf because it looks cool.

[CyclonerM]

Goosfraba, on 24 February 2014 - 06:46 AM, said:

For each player who is willing to play by can rules there are 10 who just want to use the Timberwolf because it looks cool.

I know. And if they fight disonhorably they will get quite less honor if they win and much less if they lose You know, Dezgra penalty!

Edited by CyclonerM, 24 February 2014 - 07:00 AM.

[Daneiel]

taijutsufl, on 24 February 2014 - 06:20 AM, said:

Basically yes, a sacrafice in order to preserve clan mechs and tech. Is it too much to ask? maybe it is.

I think there is a genuine concern that if clan mechs/tech are far superior to IS tech, no one will want to take the IS side. Another solution is to implement bots to play the IS side, which may be worth considering, but bots aren't as good as skilled people.

Just trying to come up with some ideas as I really don't like the 'make them equal' solution.

Let's hear more ideas for solutions as I believe the problem and discontent have been pretty fully expressed by now.

Ha ,do you have any idea how eager are the clan players to leave the Ineer Sphere .

Goosfraba, on 24 February 2014 - 06:46 AM, said:

For each player who is willing to play by can rules there are 10 who just want to use the Timberwolf because it looks cool.

Huge amount of the clan players are more excited to get their hands on Nova , Stormcrow , Warhawk and Summoner then the Timber Wolf and Dire Wolf , I will not metioned that for example Ghost Bears will prefer most of the time Executioner .