They need to make those skinny little legs have bigger hit boxes otherwise this will be the so called OP light mech for a while.
Weird. 80% of my deaths in my Ember is due to legging. Never to side torsos and seldom to CT. The fastest way to kill this mech is to focus the legs and having "dogfighted" with other Embers, the legs are not hard to hit at all.
I'm curious why you added bap to it, I have it on my Jenner D but, only because I run SSRM. Also are all of those jumpjets really necessary? I can get over any hill I need to with just pure speed and 2JJ's in the jenner. To be honest I've never ran more than 2 in a light, or even heavy for that matter so maybe I'm missing something.
Because I run Advanced Sensor Module and BAP also finds those who try to hide by shutdown.
ASM + BAP = great scouting, I find targets for myself and team faster.
As for the JJ, I never ran any but one once with only a couple, I would use 6 to see what happens.
The hardpoints for the Firestarters I think have people glowing over the possibilities - but what's possible is going to be eclipsed by what's practical. Sure, you can pack 8 energy weapons in on one of the chassis. I've seen mock ups with as many as 17 DHS in one of them as well... But the bad news? That's still not going to be enough to run with any level of heat efficiency. Even the Jenner F has trouble running 6 MLs -- to the point that many competitive players (and I do as well) prefer only running 5 with the spare ton going to an extra heat sink as it is. I run 6 MLs on my Cicada 2A, and that's just about perfect at between 18-19DHS. On hot maps grouping into 2 fire groups and staggering fire will still require me to check back just enough to think that any less than that (or any more MLs) is kind of a diminishing return to scale.
So with that said, I think the Firestarter lineup is going to be solid - but I'm a long ways from being convinced it's going to be the new bully on the block. I'd still be more comfortable in my JRF-D (or Oxide). Streaks are the single biggest threat to light pilots without a doubt.
YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I CAN'T WAIT!!!!!
I NEED ONE!!!!! WOOOOT
This reminds me of the 9Flammer Woflhound from Vengeance. OMG the pure exhilaration and havoc me and my 5 WolfHound Flammer Squad had Back in the day. We had a gay ol' time torching Summners and GladBags, Atlas and Faffners.
People hated us LMAO!
Buckminster, on 05 February 2014 - 04:54 AM, said:
I think the engine cap is too high. Taking a look at the base canon stats, it's base speed is slower than that of the Jenner - it only makes sense that the max speed should also be slower. But here we have an engine cap that is only 5 lower than that of the Jenner, which is meaningless.
Hey, that's what I said! In a different thread... I suggested it to be dropped to about 260. I just feel sorry for the Commando and the others.
Here's if you don't believe me:
Vidarok, on 04 February 2014 - 02:27 PM, said:
I'd like a nerf of max engines down to 260 or so. This thing seems... out of line. Highest firepower in a light... and great speed? And jumpjets? No, that doesn't sound right to me. This is a Hunchback 4P in disguise.
I would like to get it elited before making a claim about it being OP... it has the worst torso pitch of any mech out there and considering it has jjs and half its weapons in the torso it makes it pretty useless for trying to fire while in the air. Commandos and locusts run circles around this thing like it's a much bigger mech. Plus the arms and legs are magnets for enemy fire, which could be viewed as a pro because you can really tank some damage in this guy before the legs go down.
Hey, that's what I said! In a different thread... I suggested it to be dropped to about 260. I just feel sorry for the Commando and the others.
Here's if you don't believe me:
All light mechs are supposed to be 1.4 x Stock Engine to determine the max engine. Firestarter has a 210 x 1.4 = 294 . I would say that's pretty close to the XL295 max.
All light mechs are supposed to be 1.4 x Stock Engine to determine the max engine. Firestarter has a 210 x 1.4 = 294 . I would say that's pretty close to the XL295 max.
Supposed to be is the issue here. Take a look at the lights:
Locust: Base 160, Max 190 = 1.1875x
Commando: Base 150, Max 240 = 1.6x
Spider: Base 240, Max 285 = 1.1875x (*note, this is even worse for the -5D, at 1.0625x)
Firestarter: Base 210, Max 295 = 1.405x
Jenner: Base 245, Max 300 = 1.224x
Raven: Base 210, Max 295 = 1.405x (*note, this is based on the -3L, the canon base variant)
So on that theory, the Commando has an engine cap that is way too high, and the Locust, Spider and Jenner have caps that are way too low.
Based on that math, I should be able to jam a 225 into my Locust, which would put me at about 200 kph. Granted, it'd be nothing but engine, but still...
Buckminster, on 06 February 2014 - 04:55 AM, said:
Based on that math, I should be able to jam a 225 into my Locust, which would put me at about 200 kph. Granted, it'd be nothing but engine, but still...
Since I can't leave well enough alone...
Locust frame is 2 tons, and XL 225 and one heat sink is 11 tons, and max armor (trim the head) is 4 tons. That leaves 3 tons for weapons, which is respectable. Especially at 200 kph.
Nice thing about an engine that size it that it eliminates the need for as many external heat sinks. Because of that, it actually only weighs two tons more. XL190 + 3 heat sinks = 9 tons, compared to the 11 of the XL225 + 1 heat sink.
I run 6 MLs on my Cicada 2A, and that's just about perfect at between 18-19DHS.
Are you running an XL300 in your 2A to fit that many DHS? I'm running 15 in mine with an XL340. It's hot, but I can't give up that speed, at least not when running solo.
Take the stock armor of any mech, and add 100 and say that's the new max. What happens?
[Exploration of adding fixed armour amount to armour]
Most of all though, such a simple change would do wonders to promoting role warfare.
Adding armour does help and is relative. But there are issues with doing this.
How does this effect the use of pinpoint weapons over weapons will more spread and less confidence to strike a specific location with focus fire?
Have you thought about how this effects more heat dependent weapons that as a result of needing to fire more to achieve similar results will end up requiring more heat management to do this as less heat dependent weapons (e.g. ballistics) that may then simply use more ammo and are generally more sustainable now?
And if not have you any proposals to help re-balance these things as opposed to making heat dependent weapons simply less capable and likely providing more confidence for pinpoint FLD weapons?
Lancer Deistler, on 05 February 2014 - 02:45 AM, said:
Adding armour does help and is relative. But there are issues with doing this.
How does this effect the use of pinpoint weapons over weapons will more spread and less confidence to strike a specific location with focus fire?
Have you thought about how this effects more heat dependent weapons that as a result of needing to fire more to achieve similar results will end up requiring more heat management to do this as less heat dependent weapons (e.g. ballistics) that may then simply use more ammo and are generally more sustainable now?
And if not have you any proposals to help re-balance these things as opposed to making heat dependent weapons simply less capable and likely providing more confidence for pinpoint FLD weapons?
ROFLYSST
Edit: Remember that in about 90% of the cases of the stock armor + 100 concept, it's the non-autocannon (i.e. energy and missile) mechs that benefit the most from this by beefing their armor in accordance with stock. The Thunderbolt 9SE is a prime example; check it on Smurfy. It cannot equip it's stock armor. The left over weight is armor points that cannot be applied due to MWO's current armor limits. Thunderbolts are supposed to be nearly stalkers in terms of armor which make up for their terrible heat-dependent weaponry.
Currently, we're able to do beyond double the heat-dependant firepower. (Thresholds minimum 40, current maximum over 92. Mechwarrior 3 threshold was 30). I've tried to address it. Paul's words on the very announcement for ghost heat to the outcry of locking the threshold instead of having it raise with heatsinks is that it was "an unnecessary universal nerf." Said nerf would also severely limit autocannons, too by making it possible to shutdown while using them (and not just the AC/2s).
If lasers were instant like they used to be, we'd be just fine. God knows you can instant kill just about anything by simply touching the trigger just like now. In past games ACs were MGs or burst fire weapons. Mechwarrior 2, UAC/20 did 20 bullets + 20 bullets on a double tap. Lasers were instant bullets of light. Mechwarrior 3 lasers were flash, 5 damage, flash, 8 damage, flash, 3 damage. Autocannons were "pow pow pow!" UACs were "Tat tat tat!"
In MWO, laser weapons and autocannons switched places. Lasers stopped being instant (because balancing them by heat was 'stupid'), the much more dangerous autocannons became instant (because low heat and no problems with a plethora of high heat maps and super damage was such a great idea!) and that's our issue.
Simply changing lasers to instant damage would solve your issue. But that'd just make everything as it currently is fair. Not fun.
For a combination of balanced + fun + correct by lore standards, stay tuned. Remember that MWO rebalanced lasers to be a beam over time damage weapon. This made fights last longer. Another balance idea pitched ages and ages ago was lore-correct autocannons. That is to say, damage over time and multiple shots are required to do full damage.
Quote
Description
An Autocannon is a type of rapid-firing, auto-loading direct-fire ballistic weapon, firing HEAP (High-Explosive Armor-Piercing) or kinetic rounds at targets in bursts. It is, basically, a giant "machine gun" that fires predominantly cased explosive shells though models firing saboted high velocity kinetic energy penetrators or caseless ordnance do exist. Among the earliest tank/BattleMech scale weaponry produced, autocannons produce far less heat than energy weapons, but are considerably bulkier and are dependent upon limited stores of ammunition.
Autocannons range in caliber from 30mm up to 203mm and are loosely grouped according to their damage versus armor.[1] The exact same caliber of shell fired in a 100 shot burst to do 20 damage will have a shorter effective range than when fired in a 10 shot burst to do 2 damage due to recoil and other factors. Autocannon are grouped into the following loose damage classes:
Autocannon/2
Autocannon/5
Autocannon/10
Autocannon/20
Beyond the "standard" models, variants include the shotgun-like LBX, quick-firing Ultra and the gatling-type Rotary. Light-weight variants and capital ship scale models also exist. The experimental Hypervelocity Autocannon has also entered limited production.[2][3]
Caliber
Caliber is fluff for the size of the barrel that the shell or shells are fired from and no standard caliber has been set for any of the classes of Autocannon. Autocannon in a class vary by manufacturer and model. With the fluffed number of shells and caliber being specified, no Autocannon has been specified to be one shell fired for each "round" or burst of fire. Probable exceptions are the 185 mm ChemJet Gun Autocannon/20 mounted on the Demolisher combat vehicle and Monitor Surface vessel or the 203 mm Ultra Autocannon/20 on the Cauldron Born A BattleMech.
On the Chemjet Gun, actually.
Chemjet = 185mm (TRO 3026) -Demolisher I tank (4 shot slow burst).
The point is, there's exactly one single shot Autocannon 20 and it's mounted on a clan mech in the form of a UAC/20. It is NOT in existence in inner sphere tech.
Some comparisons: Atlas Deathgiver (100mm) AC/20 is 15 shots to do 20 damage. Crusher Super Heavy Cannon (150mm) is 10 shots to do 20. Chemjet Gun AC/20 (185mm) is 4 shots to do 20 damage. Pontiac 100 is a 100 shot burst-fire magazine fed gatling gun that does 20 damage mounted on every Victor (Heir to the Dragon). The Hunchback's Tomodzuru Autocannon Mount Type 20 cannon can (on Sarna) "strip off one and a quarter tons of armor in a single blow," however every use of the weapon to include MechCommander's intro video, depicts it as a 180mm 5 shot burst fire weapon with either a rapid burst and a very slow reload time or a slower burst and a moderate reload time.
Whirlwind AC/5, depending on the source is either an automatic or a burst-fire that in either case uses 3 shots to total its rated damage of 5.
AC/2s range from 10 shots to single shot. Autocannon 5s range a bit in between, AC/10s go from 50 shot to uber slow reloading single shot, and AC/20s with a single exception are always multishot.
The only lore-accurate single shot ballistic-esque weaponry are Gauss Rifles (which have many multi-shot variants that happen to do 15 damage within a 5 to 10 second time lapse) and PPCs (which I haven't found a a non-singleshot one yet).
The autocannons we currently have function like lore's Rifles; handheld single shot weapons based on tank cannons that had to be reloaded with magazines. The nastiest one you can possibly have was 8 tons (AC/5 weight) with 9 damage and 4 heat. That was the biggest single shot weapon that existed aside from the Cauldron Born's UAC/20, which requires a special body shape to avoid falling over when firing it and cannot equip 2. Hmmm...
But I and many others have pitched such ideas already and we keep hearing the same noise from PGI. "You're on an island." I can even buy a Tshirt for 100 bucks.
This video, though old, was part of the original attempt to pitch the weaponry fixes starting with autocannons. Note as this was when I was first getting into the ideas, it wasn't a hundred percent accurate. It's the thought that counts. I need to remake it.
Chatter on laser variants.
Chatter on autocannons.
An hour on discussing everything from tweaks to repair and rearm, King Crab, threshold problems, bull with being able to alpha strike so often (due to threshold problems), and many other things.
Enjoy! But honestly if you just go by the armor concept alone, you'll find every single meta build gets a big, nasty armor nerf and becomes easier to kill for the rest of us while we all get armor buffs! Thus in a way, solving the problem from the get go with a choice: Nasty firepower - armor + speed. Nasty fire + armor - speed. Crappy firepower + armor + speed. Crappy fire power - armor + lots of speed. Moderate firepower + fantastic armor - speed. Moderate firepower + good armor + decent speed.
I mean, look at those hardpoints! Two out of the five variants have so many energy hardpoints that they can deal more energy damage than a NORSE GOD. They have lower arm actuators that allows arm weapons to swipe around. They have Jumpjets. They have more module slots. They have roughly the same size of a Raven. They do have a lower engine cap than Jenner, but an XL265 is enough to send a FS beyong 120km/h pre-tweaked, with roughly 13-14 DHS onboard to deal with he heat while carrying 2 or more JJs.
In short, they practically outclass every single Light 'Mech that doesn't have ECM or a pair of missile hardpoints.
Gawd I'm tempted....
God. Not already. I was planing to get me one of those as my first light. This is why we cant have nice things!
7
InsectMech, on 05 February 2014 - 02:46 PM, said:
Geist Null, on 04 February 2014 - 04:03 AM, said:
Granted, it'd be nothing but engine, but still...
