347 replies to this topic

[Prezimonto]

Almond Brown, on 11 April 2014 - 11:39 AM, said:

The skill thing? Thought never crossed my mind. It is interesting to see the reaction when what happened, basically, to the Awesome way back, is now impacting the Victor. I have 3 Awesome's, all fully Mastered and they now have tarpaulins over them. Oh they get out some but only when I am feeling stupidly frisky or am more drunk than I really should be.

I feel the pain of everyone and perhaps tweaks will be made. We have not reached the end game just yet, I hope not anyways.

Honestly, if there's a mech in this game that deserves the playstyle that poptarts excel at it's the AWS. It's a purpose built fire support mech, it's MADE to fire 3 PPC's over and over and over and over.

But because of weird decisions about
-how heat is handled (high heat low cooling)
-and/or super fast fire rates (weapons fire about 4x faster than table top but cooling wasn't bumped in favor of higher capacity)
-pin point perfect convergence (high mounted arms with no actuators are just as good as low mounted arms without at hitting targets on a dime)
-jump jets that let you fire in mid air
-no recoil
-low to no falling damage

we instead get poptarts and ghost heat with no exceptions for variants. This is on top of the barn door hit boxes. The AWS is a dog because it looks badass instead of being hitbox functional AND because poptarts and high mounted arm mechs like the stalker can fire without much risk... the AWS is outclassed in EVERY WAY THAT COUNTS IN A SHOOTER... ability to deal and take damage.

My conclusion from the Victor changes thread: Fix the AWS so the Victor doesn't look so f'in "awesome" next to Awesomes.

[zudukai]

victor took an ac/20 in the rear torso, IMO borderline unplayable. if i wanted a [redacted] atlas i would have one, but instead i wanted a high degree of mobility, thus this equals victor, i pilot fast heavies, and got tired of always getting tossed into a grinder because of my playstyle, the vtr has me perfect, now it's utter trash. PGI you fail it. i guess all i have to draw me into the game now is the jester.

total scrap, what a bang up job prettygrainyinsights, do i need to quote the sarna page again?

[XX Sulla XX]

Hopefully they work on the nurf. Until then going with a 380 or 385 makes them feel less sluggish if under powered.

[SgtMagor]

this one of those things they should have left alone the victor was a good mech the way it was, it wasn't overpowered by any means, it relied on its mobility to get by, now its just scrap for me.

[Jeffrey Wilder]

SgtMagor, on 16 April 2014 - 01:16 AM, said:

this one of those things they should have left alone the victor was a good mech the way it was, it wasn't overpowered by any means, it relied on its mobility to get by, now its just scrap for me.

I still think the current nerfed victor is alright.

[Joseph Mallan]

kesuga7, on 01 April 2014 - 05:57 PM, said:

hmm yep seems like 2 of the variants are built for poptarting with 2 ballistic and 2 ppc in each arm

however like others said
its powerfull weapon hardpoints and its mobility for a assault was too much considering the weapons/armor/speed/turning it was able to do

gonna do round three of trial victor though and so far it doesn't seem to shaby

To correct you. They are built for close range fighting. The Victor was build for TT, and there you cannot fire from the apex of your jump. You could only fire once you landed. Sorry to ruin that for you.

[kesuga7]

Joseph Mallan, on 16 April 2014 - 03:38 AM, said:

To correct you. They are built for close range fighting. The Victor was build for TT, and there you cannot fire from the apex of your jump. You could only fire once you landed. Sorry to ruin that for you.

in mwo two of the victors seem built to poptart however i never said thats how they should be used but with 2 ac 5 and 2 ppc with jumpjets on a assault seeming obvious nowadays
nor that im planning to use them as poptarts lol

[Mavairo]

SgtMagor, on 16 April 2014 - 01:16 AM, said:

this one of those things they should have left alone the victor was a good mech the way it was, it wasn't overpowered by any means, it relied on its mobility to get by, now its just scrap for me.

Scrap now huh?
"Moves like an Atlas!"
Lot of basement level thinkers and players here.

[Ultimax]

kesuga7, on 16 April 2014 - 11:16 AM, said:

in mwo two of the victors seem built to poptart however i never said thats how they should be used but with 2 ac 5 and 2 ppc with jumpjets on a assault seeming obvious nowadays
nor that im planning to use them as poptarts lol

Yeah this is the bizarre part.

I've retired my Victor brawler builds, they aren't nearly nimble enough to justify it imo.

My Victor sniper builds function without any real issues.



My Boar's Head with 350 STD
Torso Yaw Speed 70°/s
Torso Pitch Speed 39°/s


My VTR-9S with 350 XL
Torso Yaw Speed 70°/s
Torso Pitch Speed 39°/s


It's pretty bizarre to swap from my Atlas to my Victor and while the linear speed is totally different, the torso twisting speed is the same.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 16 April 2014 - 11:38 AM.

[DeathlyEyes]

Mavairo, on 16 April 2014 - 11:37 AM, said:

Scrap now huh?
"Moves like an Atlas!"
Lot of basement level thinkers and players here.

It's scrap for anyone who is using it as a brawler.

[Nyte Kitsune]

I tried the trial Victor, Honestly it handles pretty much the way I'd expect a Victor to handle. As far as turning it does seem a little sluggish, but then again so long as you're not using "Arm Lock" its really not that bad. I found piloting a Victor fun overall, though in the end I saved up and bought an Atlas instead as I figured If I'm going to pilot an assault I might as well pilot the meanest looking one (and an old Battletech favorite, though come to think of it I rarely used it). In retrospect, I should have bought the Victor, as the Atlas is so slow. Well, too late now. I'll just have to grind away til I can afford something a bit more mobile for when I don't feel like plodding along.

And no.. It does not handle like an Atlas, The Atlas is alot slower and lumbers along compared to the Trial Victor, I assume the other Victors handle similarly and are thus far more mobile and maneuverable than my Atlas.

[tayhimself]

Mavairo, on 16 April 2014 - 11:37 AM, said:

Scrap now huh? "Moves like an Atlas!" Lot of basement level thinkers and players here.

Do you usually talk shit regarding issues that you haven't a clue about? If you read this very thread, there is a clear illustration of why the VTR moves similarly to an Atlas. Scrap for brawling. Just fine for poptarting (especially the Dragon Slayer).

[Mavairo]

tayhimself, on 24 April 2014 - 05:14 AM, said:

Do you usually talk shit regarding issues that you haven't a clue about? If you read this very thread, there is a clear illustration of why the VTR moves similarly to an Atlas. Scrap for brawling. Just fine for poptarting (especially the Dragon Slayer).

Do you honestly think the VTR moves like an Atlas?
So you think 75 kph mech armed with JJ moves exactly like a 62 kph Fatlas?
Do you think the VTR moves exactly like a Fatlas up hills, or through tighter buildings? (here's a hint the Fatty is Wider and has more torso to twist about, or to try and fit between buildings with and has a much greater difficulty moving up hill)

So do YOU like making comments about things you know nothing about?
Or are you just like this when you've not had your brainfood?
VTR is just like a fatlas ROFL. Yeah, that's why I'm having to constantly adjust my throttle as to not leave my Fatlas lance mate in the dust and mind my approach vectors and time them so that we're arriving at roughly the same time.

Lemme guess you think LRMs are OP too.
We had the single best mech in the game at our disposal with the prenerf victor. It could brawl with the best of them while also poptarting with equal proficiency. I don't have much issues brawling with my VTR (thanks to the firepower it carries) even post nerf. It's definitely a cavalry mech now though when not in a sniping role.
Brawling should be the forte of mechs like the Atlas (thanks to it's armor and firepower), and even the Battlemaster should be better at it than the VTR. the VTR is a firesupport mech. It's not supposed to be a front line combatant.
When your firesupport mech is as good as the best brawlers in the game, there's a problem with the firesupport mech. Because I seriously doubt anyone in here is going to say the Atlas is a scrap mech when it's in it's native role. The VTR was even better at it than the Fatlas since it could turn like a medium, had JJ and moved at 75 kph. I likened my VTRs to Easy Mode pre nerf.

Edited by Mavairo, 24 April 2014 - 06:55 AM.

[DeathlyEyes]

Mavairo, on 24 April 2014 - 06:37 AM, said:

Do you honestly think the VTR moves like an Atlas?
So you think 75 kph mech armed with JJ moves exactly like a 62 kph Fatlas?
Do you think the VTR moves exactly like a Fatlas up hills, or through tighter buildings? (here's a hint the Fatty is Wider and has more torso to twist about, or to try and fit between buildings with and has a much greater difficulty moving up hill)

Actually I don't think i the Atlas handles like a Victor. It does so with the same exact engine. The only difference is straight line speed. Meanwhile the Stalker, Banshee, Battlemaster and Awesome all handle better than it despite weighing the same as or more than. http://mwomercs.com/...59#entry3264759 The issue is this didn't achieve what Paul was trying to achieve. It only hurts the mech being used in situations that weren't targeted. You are a troll please learn to read and come back when you graduate 1st grade. If anyone has any doubt these nerfs didn't do anything here is a nice video

Edited by SLDF DeathlyEyes, 24 April 2014 - 07:57 AM.

[Mavairo]

SLDF DeathlyEyes, on 24 April 2014 - 07:37 AM, said:

Actually I don't think i the Atlas handles like a Victor. It does so with the same exact engine. The only difference is straight line speed. Meanwhile the Stalker, Banshee, Battlemaster and Awesome all handle better than it despite weighing the same as or more than. http://mwomercs.com/...59#entry3264759 The issue is this didn't achieve what Paul was trying to achieve. It only hurts the mech being used in situations that weren't targeted. You are a troll please learn to read and come back when you graduate 1st grade. If anyone has any doubt these nerfs didn't do anything here is a nice video

So you think straight line speed, physical mech size and JJ have absolutely nothing to do with agility.
Just because you aren't smart enough to grasp differences in velocity, let alone having another Axis entirely to attack from as being superior in agility, doesn't make me a troll. It just makes you ignorant.

Edited by Mavairo, 24 April 2014 - 08:02 AM.

[DeathlyEyes]

Mavairo, on 24 April 2014 - 08:01 AM, said:

So you think straight line speed, physical mech size and JJ have absolutely nothing to do with agility.
Just because you aren't smart enough to grasp differences in velocity, let alone having another Axis entirely to attack from as being superior in agility, doesn't make me a troll. It just makes you ignorant.

In fact I do:

Quote

Agility or nimbleness is the ability to change the body's position efficiently, and requires the integration of isolated movement skills using a combination of balance, coordination, speed, reflexes, strength, and endurance. Agility is the ability to change the direction of the body in an efficient and effective manner and to achieve this requires a combination of
balance – the ability to maintain equilibrium when stationary or moving (i.e. not to fall over) through the coordinated actions of our sensory functions (eyes, ears and the proprioceptive organs in our joints);
static balance – the ability to retain the centre of mass above the base of support in a stationary position;
dynamic balance – the ability to maintain balance with body movement; speed - the ability to move all or part of the body quickly; strength - the ability of a muscle or muscle group to overcome a resistance; and lastly,
co-ordination – the ability to control the movement of the body in co-operation with the body's sensory functions (e.g., in catching a ball [ball, hand and eye co-ordination]).

The argument is that the nerf did nothing to alleviate the issue that was target. Paul has come out and said that the reason the nerf was placed on the Victor and Highlander was jump sniping. The nerf has damaged brawler builds. It has hardly effected the targeted builds while placing a burden on builds that could counter these sniper builds.

Furthermore the agility reduction was way more than what would be needed to bring the mech into line with other assaults. The Victor has more in common with an Orion than an Atlas and should handle more similarly to an Orion than an Atlas. Not the same in several categories as the Atlas, categories which are vital to brawler configurations. If what you say about Jump Jets is true, PGI should make them unremovable since they appear to be so vital to the build behaving properly.

I can't wait for the whine from the Alt C of the man o war. When Victors cannot standup to them because of all the nerfing now it will be hillarious 84 kph 1 UAC20 6 medium lasers.

Edited by SLDF DeathlyEyes, 24 April 2014 - 08:24 AM.

[Mavairo]

SLDF DeathlyEyes, on 24 April 2014 - 08:17 AM, said:

In fact I do:



The argument is that the nerf did nothing to alleviate the issue that was target. Paul has come out and said that the reason the nerf was placed on the Victor and Highlander was jump sniping. The nerf has damaged brawler builds. It has hardly effected the targeted builds while placing a burden on builds that could counter these sniper builds.

Furthermore the agility reduction was way more than what would be needed to bring the mech into line with other assaults. The Victor has more in common with an Orion than an Atlas and should handle more similarly to an Orion than an Atlas. Not the same in several categories as the Atlas, categories which are vital to brawler configurations. If what you say about Jump Jets is true, PGI should make them unremovable since they appear to be so vital to the build behaving properly.

Unfortunately, given the Victors Weight, and physical size combination JJ ARE pretty much mandatory on them. They always have been in my opinion.
The argument I'm making is that the VTR is hardly a Scrap Mech because of this nerf. I don't know how much of this thread you've read up to this point but there is more than one person here that says "the Awesome is a better mech now!" not "it turns better" No, "Better" Full stop. Or that the Battlemaster is a better mech. (Which is so heinously untrue, particularly in the Awesome's case)

The VTR is a hit and run mech, or a fire support mech. It's not supposed to be a mainline brawler, even in it' weight class. The Battlemaster is supposed to be among top honors there, let alone the bigger mechs like the Atlas. With the way the VTR was before this change that was anything but the case. Instead we got tremendous long range support, and fantastic brawl capability, which is exactly why it and the HGN became the best two assault mechs in the game. There weren't any effective trade offs in taking a VTR vs Atlas, or Stalker.

(And the VTR is still in the hunt for that honor as is the HGN when played to their strengths)

the VTR went from Easy Mode, to such a degree I honestly put them away for a while lest it ruin my ability in other mechs or if god help us all PGI went and brought the VTR back in line, to a mech that I'll field now, because I know while I'll be raining hell down on an Atlas and playing Keep Away, that if he closes well, my face is going to get pounded in.

The VTR is also more than capable of getting to grips with enemy snipers due to it's forward speed and JJs. It's just not going to be the full time star of the show anymore.
Which is what most of this thread is about, other VTR pilots whining because they got a nerf that we had coming since the mech's introduction.

Since the VTR's and HGN's nerf there has been a resurgence of Stalker, and Atlases.
The Battlemaster and Awesome need Serious Buffs to be brought into line with the other assault mechs at this point. But the big three are alot closer now than they have ever been in over all power (Atlas, Victor and HGN), that's a good thing. The Stalker is slightly behind the big three. With the Battleturd, and Not Awesome trailing behind desperately, like two fat kids chasing an icecream truck up hill.

Edited by Mavairo, 24 April 2014 - 08:30 AM.

[DeathlyEyes]

Everyone I know who pilots brawlers have dumped their Victors for Stalkers. There is no longer any reason to use a Victor unless it is a poptart. I have no idea what ELO you play in or what but it is a serious problem now. Look, I am not trying to say no nerf was needed, I am just saying that 20% is way too much. 5% makes sense maybe even 7.5% if things are still bad after that, 20% was completely unacceptable. I don't disagree with you the Battlemaster and Awesome both need serious buffs which include redesigns of the models so they don't have xbox huge hit boxes. Just because those mechs need buffs doesn't mean the Victor should be nerfed to near uselessness in every situation but popsniping.

Edited by SLDF DeathlyEyes, 24 April 2014 - 08:35 AM.

[Mavairo]

SLDF DeathlyEyes, on 24 April 2014 - 08:31 AM, said:

Everyone I know who pilots brawlers have dumped their Victors for Stalkers. There is no longer any reason to use a Victor unless it is a poptart. I have no idea what ELO you play in or what but it is a serious problem now.

There's hardly any brawlers in my ELO. Most of which that are there are in heavies, or Atlases. Most of the firesupport is in Stalkers.
The stalker IS supposed to be a better brawler than the VTR, it's a walking gun. The stalker isn't quite as good though, particularly in mixed game mode play where it's lack of overall mobility becomes a huge pain at times. VTRs role is pretty much what it's always been, big engine big autocannon and big secondary weaponry.

[DeathlyEyes]

Mavairo, on 24 April 2014 - 08:37 AM, said:

There's hardly any brawlers in my ELO. Most of which that are there are in heavies, or Atlases. Most of the firesupport is in Stalkers.
The stalker IS supposed to be a better brawler than the VTR, it's a walking gun. The stalker isn't quite as good though, particularly in mixed game mode play where it's lack of overall mobility becomes a huge pain at times. VTRs role is pretty much what it's always been, big engine big autocannon and big secondary weaponry.

Do you think the Victor was too good of a sniper? Or do you think it was too good of a brawler? Because if it is that it was too good of a sniper the nerf did nothing to affect that. If it is too good of a brawler that wasn't what Paul was targeting.

EDIT: By the way the stalker isn't designed to be nimble. It's a support mech in most variations with mostly LRMs and some close range weapons for self defense.

Edited by SLDF DeathlyEyes, 24 April 2014 - 08:50 AM.