1126 replies to this topic

[Heffay]

PhoenixFire55, on 14 April 2014 - 10:40 AM, said:

Problem is if I for example got 6 people we'll have 6 others on our team we want nothing to do with. Let alone 12 others on the other team.

Then start up a private match and set up your own 3 on 3 matches. You will now have that option.

[SweetJackal]

The idea of letting Solo Players drop in a group queue works, in the right conditions. This does not remove the Solo Queue, this allows players not in a group to drop in a group queue. Why would players want to do this? Why would players want to drop solo into a group cooperative experience?

Currently there is no effective means of finding a group in MWO and there are severe limits on Grouping which hurts any form of organized play. Yet there exists players that want to work with other players but hate the hassle it is to find a group in MWO.

These are the players that would want to drop solo in a Group Queue, these are the players that would fill up the blank spots and make Group Queue work so much faster. These are the saviors of Group Queue.

Given the tools in game for individual players to communicate effectively with their team in a timely fashion (Command Wheel and Voice Comms!) these solo players can work with the team. The people that want solo drops in group queue would be using it in a "Find Me A Group" function. These are players that want some teamwork and leadership in a game and are fine just being followers.

Allowing players to choose to drop into a group queue alone lets them find groups, be put on teams of players that have an idea of cooperation and teamwork. Given the ability to communicate in game means that they can function just as well as the people that dropped as part of the group's lobby.

This is not about forcing Solo Queue players to fill spots in Group Queue, that's always been a bad idea that just won't work.

[PhoenixFire55]

Heffay, on 14 April 2014 - 10:46 AM, said:

Then start up a private match and set up your own 3 on 3 matches. You will now have that option.

Yes, as long as I PAY for it. Pay-to-play-with-friends ... in a free-to-play game. I think we are done here.

[TygerLily]

Heffay, on 14 April 2014 - 10:44 AM, said:

Why make it a solo queue? What is the need for that, as opposed to the public queue (solo or 2-4 person groups, limit 1 group per side)?

I'm trying to figure out the *reason* you need to eliminate the small groups from the public queue.

Theoretically, I guess it just becomes it's redundant. 2-4 mans would still have a place to play but the "solo queue" would then be a lot more balanced...since it would just be non-comms, mass chaos, lol.

Edited by TygerLily, 14 April 2014 - 10:49 AM.

[Jacob Side]

"Some of you may suggest that allowing solo players the ability to drop into the group queue would be the solution. A solo player would have MUCH greater success at winning in the regular public match than up against teams." - Paul

How about leaving that choice up to the player. You might end up being surprised that there are players that want to fill that role. And surprised at the success of winning.
You guys make my head hurt with your design choices, give the player options and you'd be surprised at what we pick.

Edited by Jacob Side, 14 April 2014 - 11:25 AM.

[TKSax]

Heffay, on 14 April 2014 - 10:46 AM, said:

Then start up a private match and set up your own 3 on 3 matches. You will now have that option.

As long as a player on each team has premium time, and soon to be pay per match.

[Heffay]

PhoenixFire55, on 14 April 2014 - 10:48 AM, said:

Yes, as long as I PAY for it. Pay-to-play-with-friends ... in a free-to-play game. I think we are done here.

You can still play for free.

I want free mech bays. Does that mean if the game doesn't allow that it's not free to play?

Edited by Heffay, 14 April 2014 - 10:51 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

Heffay, on 14 April 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

You can still play for free.

With random horriplayers and all the meta flying around, yes thanks.

Edited by PhoenixFire55, 14 April 2014 - 10:52 AM.

[Davers]

Honestly, with in game VOIP on the horizon what is the difference between a 12 man group who play in the same lobby for several matches, a 12 man pick up group in the NGNG TS, and a dedicated 12 man merc group, other than the number of matches played together?

A 2-12 man que filled out with solo players (one premade per team) all using in game VOIP and balanced by group size should really be the end goal.

[Pyrrho]

I don't think disallowing solo players in a group queue is a good idea. Especially not if the reason you are using is "Solo players will win more in PUG environments."

[Heffay]

PhoenixFire55, on 14 April 2014 - 10:51 AM, said:

With random horriplayers and all the meta flying around, yes thanks.

No, you don't have to play a penny. You only need 2 players in your 6 man group with premium time to be able to play. You can still cheap out if can't afford premium time.

[hideyourkids]

SuckyJack, on 14 April 2014 - 10:48 AM, said:

The idea of letting Solo Players drop in a group queue works, in the right conditions. This does not remove the Solo Queue, this allows players not in a group to drop in a group queue. Why would players want to do this? Why would players want to drop solo into a group cooperative experience?

Currently there is no effective means of finding a group in MWO and there are severe limits on Grouping which hurts any form of organized play. Yet there exists players that want to work with other players but hate the hassle it is to find a group in MWO.

These are the players that would want to drop solo in a Group Queue, these are the players that would fill up the blank spots and make Group Queue work so much faster. These are the saviors of Group Queue.

Given the tools in game for individual players to communicate effectively with their team in a timely fashion (Command Wheel and Voice Comms!) these solo players can work with the team. The people that want solo drops in group queue would be using it in a "Find Me A Group" function. These are players that want some teamwork and leadership in a game and are fine just being followers.

Allowing players to choose to drop into a group queue alone lets them find groups, be put on teams of players that have an idea of cooperation and teamwork. Given the ability to communicate in game means that they can function just as well as the people that dropped as part of the group's lobby.

This is not about forcing Solo Queue players to fill spots in Group Queue, that's always been a bad idea that just won't work.

If you want to drop in group queue, join a group. 1 solo player isn't a problem. But if the match maker starts allowing ALL solo players to drop in group, we could end up with stuff like 8 + 1 +1 + 1 + 1. . This would be the same as we have now, which is problematic since the 1's cant talk. A solution (like you suggested) would be a group finder.

[A Man In A Can]

Heffay, on 14 April 2014 - 10:34 AM, said:

The public queue will limit groups to one, and it will also ensure that the other team will also have one group.

Anything else?

Yes. It removes the potential of solos crying because they keep losing because they keep dropping with a 2 person group while the other side gets a 4 person group.

Simply put, it's the idea that they are not dropping in a 100% solo queue (especially when they desire) that keeps causing such threads to pop up. Eliminating teams entirely by creating a solo only queue gives such players peace of mind that they aren't dropping with teams so they aren't expected to perform as a team. If solos wanted to perform as part of a team, they would join the group queue if it were open to solos as well as any number groups.

P.S. Just wanted to say this point to put it out there. Please don't quote and argue it with me further because I really don't care for endless debates. If you want to continue the debate on this topic, quote someone else, and continue on with them.

[PhoenixFire55]

Heffay, on 14 April 2014 - 10:52 AM, said:

No, you don't have to play a penny. You only need 2 players in your 6 man group with premium time to be able to play. You can still cheap out if can't afford premium time.

Yeah, somebody can cheap out, but somebody still pays to play with friends in a F2P game.

[Roadbeer]

Oh, by the way Paul,

Thanks for coming off as condescending and completely dismissive towards the wants of your "Small population" that your decisions have made small in the first place.

The whole thing I got out of your post was:

"This is something we don't feel like doing, don't feel it's important, but in order to tone down the static we're receiving on the topic, I'm going to make a post describing the reasons we've come up with for not doing it, let you debate them, then completely ignore the topic"

[CeeKay Boques]

Stop worrying about if we're gonna be butthurt if you go in X or Y direction. People will get mad at Z, the unintended result anyway. Just throw stuff at the wall as quickly as possible and see what sticks. All the butts are hurt all the time, you literally can't screw up. 11 v 12 Fine! Ship it.

[zolop]

Sometimes I think their is another creative director working at PGI that we do not see...

Sarcasm below...
If this game is only for solo play (or small squad play, 4 mechs) centric game as of now because of limited group sizes I can understand the development path PGI is doing now. Why not just have battles with 4 on 4 is the developers care far more for the solo players than the team-centric (4+) competative crowd. Lets launch just with the max of 4 mechs... Then we can finally get down to one mech only and do just 1vs1 with community warfare as 1v1! I mean the statistics show that 80%+ of players drop solo, with group sizes limited to 4, it has to be a really good idea to help the solo players and totally ignore the players that want to play in a large group (4+)...
sarcasm off

MWO needs make some changes to MWO if it is to survive, one simple one was already mentioned in this thread. It was where solo players would be allowed to drop with groups, for the matching maker to use the solo players to fill in the spots neede to reach 12.

This idea below of course would need tweaking..
-Put everyone in a Que and add a option to select "Launch with Group Matchmaking" for solo players
3/3/3/3 rule still applies, MWs not in a group will have to reselect another weight class mech if one of the same weight class exhists in the group they are joining
MM system flow slightly changed...
1> Group of less than 12 launches
2> MM finds a similar enemy group to battle against that is less than 12 MWs
3> MM fills in the slots remaining with Solo players that wanted to be assigned with a group que
3a>MM cannot find a enemy group similarly size and weight classes to battle against

0>MM finds a enemy group but with higher difference in weight classes / group size (Enemy Group 2)

0>MM dialogue UI pops up asking if the group members (full group combined with solo players) to take a vote on a battle with Enemy Group 2

0> Vote wins the battle happens with Enemy Group 2

0>Vote fails MM continues searching for a matched enemy group....GOTO step 2

3b>MM finds a enemy group similarly size and weight classes to battle against

Edited by zolop, 14 April 2014 - 11:19 AM.

[moonglum]

Terciel1976, on 14 April 2014 - 09:44 AM, said:

Editing in unoriginal but vehement thoughts: I continue to be flummoxed by the lack of understanding of cause and effect, too. The reason it's "mostly" solo drops now is because team dropping is such a pain in the behind. If you made it easier, that 84% number (badly defined and possibly bloated as it is) would crash down. It's a team game for crying out loud. It's only high because it's so flipping hard to play in a group.

^^^ I just want to second, third, and fourth this sentiment.

"It's only high because it's so flipping hard to play in a group."

[Heffay]

Technoviking, on 14 April 2014 - 11:04 AM, said:

Stop worrying about if we're gonna be butthurt if you go in X or Y direction. People will get mad at Z, the unintended result anyway. Just throw stuff at the wall as quickly as possible and see what sticks. All the butts are hurt all the time, you literally can't screw up. 11 v 12 Fine! Ship it.

Basically this. This thread is proof that even if you give people exactly what they want, some people are still going to find something to whine about.

"Here, have more options."

"YOU'RE USING THE WRONG FONT TO TELL US ABOUT THESE OPTIONS!" /ragequit

...

Then again, font is serious business. You can troll people very easily by just posting in comic sans.

Edited by Heffay, 14 April 2014 - 11:08 AM.

[Ngamok]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 14 April 2014 - 09:53 AM, said:

Solo Queue - Solo Drops.

Group Queue - 2-10 or just make it fully unrestricted. No tonnage matching, no ELO matching, just straight up carnage.



Done.

Easy.

Because they mean that for the private matches. If they can't sell Premium Time to cover some of the costs what do you want them to do? Start a monthly sub?