471 replies to this topic

[Almond Brown]

Roughneck45, on 21 April 2014 - 07:38 AM, said:

It seems your commander does not know how to properly use his resources.

Sacrificing a mech for a push is rarely the best option, and even when it is that mech should be cycling to the back after the push so that they don't die after soaking damage. You can still push, tank, and lead your team to victory without going down.

This is MWO, not chess, there is almost always a better option than sacrificing yourself.

So what you describe is those Teams who do not have any type of Leadership, and they all sit back and get picked off by LRM's and Jump snipers, don't cover the flanks, get rolled and then wonder/QQ about "whos" fault it was... LOL!

[Faith McCarron]

His point is still valid, though. Short of sacrificing yourself to stop an enemy cap for a few seconds, there is little contributed by your death. And even then, your contribution isn't in your death, it's in managing to stay ALIVE to stop the cap while staying in the tiny square. Of course, really, who caps anymore anyhow. But still.

[Almond Brown]

Roland, on 21 April 2014 - 07:50 AM, said:

People seem to just be trying to rationalize their deaths by imagining that their deaths were secretly the reason why their teams won games.

In any game that goes 12-10, yup, 10 players helped 2 on their side to survive and thus WIN the Match.

We can't all be HERO's Roland. Those who always survive and just roll 12-0 with their playa's... Some day perhaps...

Edited by Almond Brown, 22 April 2014 - 08:00 AM.

[Screech]

What is considered a good KDR for a group only player? I think the bar for 1 KDR as average is really meant for a solo only players. What do group players feel an average group players KDR will be?

[Almond Brown]

Appogee, on 21 April 2014 - 07:52 AM, said:

You are over-thinking it. Or deliberately trying to over-complicate it. Not sure which.

stuff

Man up, fight on, die proud. Occasionally it will lead to a glorious unexpected victory.

Not according to some. Your death is always just a waste of their most precious time.

[Joseph Mallan]

Faith McCarron, on 22 April 2014 - 07:49 AM, said:

The best, concise explanation of HoL that I've heard is that "LORDS is not a unit, it's a way of life". Now, while personally I find their general carrying on to be anathema, they're straightforward in what they do/are. Hint: objectively watch a Lords 4-man in the pub queue and you'll find that they may be annoying, and they are definitely trolls, but they're anything but pop-sniping metas sitting in the back racking up kills from safety. In fact, it can be near impossible to keep up with them in most matches.

And yet.... still not answering the original Y/N question... NOW I see why my wife gets mad when I hedge on a Y/N question!

[Faith McCarron]

I guess I just don't see the point of the original Y/N question. If someone told you authoritatively "Yes", how would that alter anything over them authoritatively telling you "No"?

[Almond Brown]

Roland, on 21 April 2014 - 08:00 AM, said:

But you are assuming that your deaths somehow contributed to those wins, when there is no evidence of that.

Folks who know me know that I tend to play quite aggressively, so I know what it means to put your mech into dangerous situations... but part of being good means being able to get OUT of those situations as well.

There's literally no reason, ever, for you to die.

Now, back in MW4, there actually was utility in dying sometimes, due to splash damage... You could potentially do MORE good by dying in certain cases.

But in MWO? There's zero utility in dying. And it's a mistake to believe that certain beneficial actions require death to accomplish.

And I have seen many a Mech who came away with a win and literally did SFA. Did they do it the proper way? Well they won right, so that must have been done correctly.

Despite the deaths of the 8 or 9 other Team members who actually fought to secure that victory.

[poopenshire]

Roland, on 17 April 2014 - 03:16 PM, said:

Better players have higher KDR's... Because it turns out, that if you're good and you are able to deal precise damage where you want... then you get more kills.

If you have a KDR less than 1, it means you are bad.

I am late to the discussion on this, but this statement without qualifiers is offensive.... as a whole players maybe but on a mech by mech basis, very very offensive.

I have 2 mechs with sub 1 KDR, both are spotting/TAG/NARC mechs with little to no offensive weapons. Infact one of them is sub 0.5 KDR. Last night alone in lance drops I ran one of these spiders. 0 Kills 8 to 11 assists, around 200 to 300 damage, and minimally 15 spotting assists. These are built for speed, max armor, and support operations. If these mechs were so bad, why is my CBills over 200k and my EXP per match on these over 1400.

[Joseph Mallan]

Faith McCarron, on 22 April 2014 - 08:08 AM, said:

I guess I just don't see the point of the original Y/N question. If someone told you authoritatively "Yes", how would that alter anything over them authoritatively telling you "No"?

It would sadden me that the Jags lost a good warrior... other than that. Many things can be shades of grey but a Y/N question requires a Y/N answer. Now if you wanna go around with philosophy I am game to do so in a different thread.

poopenshire, on 22 April 2014 - 08:12 AM, said:

I am late to the discussion on this, but this statement without qualifiers is offensive.... as a whole players maybe but on a mech by mech basis, very very offensive.

I have 2 mechs with sub 1 KDR, both are spotting/TAG/NARC mechs with little to no offensive weapons. Infact one of them is sub 0.5 KDR. Last night alone in lance drops I ran one of these spiders. 0 Kills 8 to 11 assists, around 200 to 300 damage, and minimally 15 spotting assists. These are built for speed, max armor, and support operations. If these mechs were so bad, why is my CBills over 200k and my EXP per match on these over 1400.

This sounds like you are filling one of those roles for warfare Poop!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 22 April 2014 - 08:24 AM.

[Roughneck45]

Almond Brown, on 22 April 2014 - 07:55 AM, said:

So what you describe is those Teams who do not have any type of Leadership, and they all sit back and get picked off by LRM's and Jump snipers, don't cover the flanks, get rolled and then wonder/QQ about "whos" fault it was... LOL!

No, I'm talking about teams that blob and push straight forward into a firing line. You don't need to push for the sake of pushing, you need to do it when you can flank and take out isolated mechs or take a more advantageous position.

[poopenshire]

Joseph Mallan, on 22 April 2014 - 08:14 AM, said:

It would sadden me that the Jags lost a good warrior... other than that. Many things can be shades of grey but a Y/N question requires a Y/N answer. Now i you wanna go around with philosophy I am game to do so in a different thread.


This sounds like you are filling one of those roles for warfare Poop!

Thanks for the vote of confidence, my teammates didn't complain. I sneaked up on a DDC last night on Tormaline at the start and my team rained on him. I bet there were tons of swearing coming from him on his own coms. of course 3 seconds later I had about 3 mechs trying to chase me.

I like running spotter for my team. Its fun and you get to be really annoying to the big guys.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...59afce0c79cf865

This mech if it gets kills, well I admit they are probably steals. Its not going to kill anyone on its own. Sometimes I drop the AMS and ammo and swap that Med laser for an ER large to do more damage.

[Almond Brown]

Roughneck45, on 22 April 2014 - 08:14 AM, said:

No, I'm talking about teams that blob and push straight forward into a firing line. You don't need to push for the sake of pushing, you need to do it when you can flank and take out isolated mechs or take a more advantageous position.

But according to this thread, only the "bads" do those thing because even under ideal conditions, someone(s) is likely to die in the attempt. If not then the other Team were all "bads"...

[Harathan]

poopenshire, on 22 April 2014 - 08:12 AM, said:

I have 2 mechs with sub 1 KDR, both are spotting/TAG/NARC mechs with little to no offensive weapons. Infact one of them is sub 0.5 KDR. Last night alone in lance drops I ran one of these spiders. 0 Kills 8 to 11 assists, around 200 to 300 damage, and minimally 15 spotting assists. These are built for speed, max armor, and support operations. If these mechs were so bad, why is my CBills over 200k and my EXP per match on these over 1400.

Which makes you (and others) a BAD player, by the estimation of leet dudes like Roland.

WTF do you think you are doing, assisting the team by spotting? Seriously, what are you even thinking? Trying to contribute to your team in ways other than directly dealing damage and killing things? Madness! You're worthless. Bad player. Bad!

...

Sorry, I was channeling Roland for a second there. Might have been caused by the concussion of being bludgeoned by Adiuvo's e-peen.

Edited by Harathan, 22 April 2014 - 08:27 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Thinking man and a team player... Double threat!

[Eglar]

Joseph Mallan, on 22 April 2014 - 08:14 AM, said:

It would sadden me that the Jags lost a good warrior... other than that. Many things can be shades of grey but a Y/N question requires a Y/N answer. Now if you wanna go around with philosophy I am game to do so in a different thread.

He is still in Clan Smoke Jaguar. As his name suggests He is their Khan and his Bloodname is Kotare. I was stating that it does not conflict with being in the house of lords, the role-playing aspect of the Smoke Jaguars arrogance fits in well. And "LORD KOTARE/ggclose" is as much of a match opening statement as "Die Freebirth Scum" or "123123123th. DonegalSkyeNewFuckinRepublic-RangerDoubleGuards Recruiting on enjin.23123123thDonegalSkyeNewFuckinRepublicRangerDoubleGuards.com"

Edited by Eglar, 22 April 2014 - 08:49 AM.

[Gallowglas]

Here's the thing:

1) You assume that removing a KDR stat would correct this behavior.

2) If you remove the ability to track statistics or a cumulative, personal score, then a lot of people, myself included, will quickly lose interest. I'm a competitive player. It's part of what drives me. I like statistics. I want more of them. I understand that by itself the stat is meaningless, but it does give me a general idea about my progress and performance when coupled with other factors.

3) Most people don't act as you describe. I may try to improve my KDR, but that doesn't mean that I do it at the cost of good sportsmanship or abusive gameplay. Sure, there are a few bad apples, but there are people who TK and the like as well. That doesn't mean it needs some draconian correction.

4) CW (whenever in the distant future that it arrives) should provide an ample, offsetting incentive to circumvent this behavior.

[Eglar]

Almond Brown, on 22 April 2014 - 08:23 AM, said:

But according to this thread, only the "bads" do those thing because even under ideal conditions, someone(s) is likely to die in the attempt. If not then the other Team were all "bads"...

Yes, if you die you probably made an mistake. Try not to die when leading a charge and winning. Good players make mistakes too but it doesn't excuse the "dying for the greater good attitude" - and than losing which happens alot more in this game. You can state as many Case-Scenarios as you want but noone of them will beat the general idea of "DYING IS BAD"

poopenshire, on 22 April 2014 - 08:12 AM, said:

I have 2 mechs with sub 1 KDR, both are spotting/TAG/NARC mechs with little to no offensive weapons. Infact one of them is sub 0.5 KDR. Last night alone in lance drops I ran one of these spiders. 0 Kills 8 to 11 assists, around 200 to 300 damage, and minimally 15 spotting assists. These are built for speed, max armor, and support operations. If these mechs were so bad, why is my CBills over 200k and my EXP per match on these over 1400.

#PublicElo
#PublicStats
#MetagameSaysNo

Harathan, on 22 April 2014 - 08:25 AM, said:

Which makes you (and others) a BAD player, by the estimation of leet dudes like Roland.
WTF do you think you are doing, assisting the team by spotting? Seriously, what are you even thinking? Trying to contribute to your team in ways other than directly dealing damage and killing things? Madness! You're worthless. Bad player. Bad!

Quoting myself

Eglar, on 22 April 2014 - 07:19 AM, said:

I'm not saying that playing with your friends, fun-builds is wrong but it makes you a worse player compared to people who play to win with all the meta, consumables, pre-mades, verbal trolling. It's like comparing a casual weekend neighborhood basketball-team with a nba team.

.

Edited by Eglar, 22 April 2014 - 09:40 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Eglar, on 22 April 2014 - 07:19 AM, said:

I agree. And I'm not saying that playing with your friends, fun-builds is wrong but it makes you a worse player compared to people who play to win with all the meta, consumables, pre-mades, verbal trolling. It's like comparing a casual weekend neighborhood basketball-team with a nba team.

Edit: P.s. Crunck Prime is not in HoL, just a fanboy.

I find it makes me a better player. I can default to the meta, rather easily. But I feel that after playing exclusively to it, it's harder to loosen up and go free for all. Meta in general wins, no denying, else it would not be meta, but I think adhering too it makes one less rounded player in general, especially in situations where the Meta advantages are not as prevalent. In my experience in PUGland, you get a 4man running Meta, it can dominate. You got 1-2 guys trying to run to it, it is pretty easy to take them out, unless of course, your whole unit huddles behind a hill for slow attrition death, anyhow.

And yeah, Crunk Prime is just a tryhard troll anyhow. I tend to ignore him, though on the occasions he contributes useful forum post, I will acknowledge it. But I think he has pre made envy or puppy issues.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 22 April 2014 - 09:51 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Eglar, on 22 April 2014 - 07:19 AM, said:

that being said there are many easily approachable players such as JagerXII you can ask whatever you want, they play non-meta mechs and still win on a regular base (catlance and stuff...),
Or how your typical Lords 4-man meta-premade wins with Heimdelight with a usual 4 man meta not staying in the backyard and sniping but rather being the first and foremost to seek confrontation.

On both streams you'll notice that the W/L and K/D are both above 5.

Which in and of itself kinda shows, it's the meat, and the coordination, more than the Meta(l). Meta enhances it, but is not mandatory.