876 replies to this topic

[Lily from animove]

Russ Bullock, on 07 September 2014 - 09:22 PM, said:

Well in my replies you will see it may not be written off entirely and I hope to see it in some form, certainly buttons in Private matches at the least.

But the rest of your statement I must take issue with as simply irresponsible. I truly feel this is the most true to MechWarrior title there has ever been. There is no doubt we have the advantage of todays computers and technologies, but we can start a seperate thread to have this debate sometime.

Well when we have CW maybe. The mechwarrior mechanics are definately the best of all gams so far and of course the way the game looks. But know all macthes are too much of a team deathmatch arena a la counterstrike. Imagine we had conquest and assault on bigger maps including the dropship. Then we would have a cool mechwarrior game. Because mechwarrior was also defined by big maps we could run around Many maps dictaded the way of success because there aren't many different real tactics available to win. Especially the smaller ones.

Edited by Lily from animove, 13 October 2014 - 05:52 AM.

[Celros]

I Can understand clan players frustration with heat, and some of balance changes. I need mention that I didnt see much reason why use ERL or LPL or that already felt very hard add more heat effiency with clan limitations with omnipods (played IS from start of mwo, and got just first fresh clan mech). I dont want be evil, but wont heat limitations add challenge you want ? ;P

PS. I really agree with PGI opinion why not go 10vs12 path, but still playing as clan needs have its flavor too... so other paths needs be considered. so far, Im enjoying again of mwo after LOONG time so they must be doing something right after long time...

Edited by Celros, 13 October 2014 - 12:51 AM.

[Threat Doc]

For you Clan players who are having trouble with heat, keep in mind that you have between 20 and 70% more weapons you can add to your Clan 'Mechs; the weapons are lighter, raise less heat, and you still only have so much space in which to add Heat Sinks. So, the things you get as a bonus, also turns out to be a potential design penalty, so you actually have to be more careful than Inner Sphere pilots with your designs. Please consider all of that before you start crying about heat issues?

[Lily from animove]

Kay Wolf, on 13 October 2014 - 05:21 AM, said:

For you Clan players who are having trouble with heat, keep in mind that you have between 20 and 70% more weapons you can add to your Clan 'Mechs; the weapons are lighter, raise less heat, and you still only have so much space in which to add Heat Sinks. So, the things you get as a bonus, also turns out to be a potential design penalty, so you actually have to be more careful than Inner Sphere pilots with your designs. Please consider all of that before you start crying about heat issues?

this is the whole reason why clanmechs are unbalanced. mechs like DW and TW or SC have enough tonnage to make use of all the lost to cool the massive amount of E weapons. But other mechs, like adder or kit fox don't even have many E weapon points AND they don't even have much tonnage to cool them properly. On top of that TW and DW get more heatsinks int heir engines meanign even less space consumption. Thats the big issue of how why and where they start to outclass the other clanmechs.Heta issue sdo not distribute equally amongst the clanmechs.

Edited by Lily from animove, 13 October 2014 - 05:52 AM.

[Threat Doc]

But, you see, that is not a balance issue, that is a design issue. The OmniMechs are DESIGNED to be that way; they follow the standard design rules which limits them, despite the improvements in everything over Inner Sphere 'Mechs, to the same number plays of all other 'Mechs. Had FASA rebuilt the design rules to favor better tonnages to house their improvements, they would be amazingly overpowered. They're terribly overpowered, now, and that's just increased damage for decreased heat building, so you have to be extremely careful to build your Clan Omni's just right.

[Hoax415]

I'm inclined to agree with Lily, not being able to toggle endo and FF or the even stranger not being able to put HS in open engine slots does create a have vs have not problem among the clan mechs.

HOWEVER.

Adding even more strain onto the balance between Clan and IS would be stupid at this time. Its probably a set of problems we'll need to adjust when/if PGI wants to add some non-omni clan chassis to the game.

[Karl Marlow]

I don't really understand why the hard limits on engine and Endo/FF exist in the first place. I especially don't understand why we can't add or remove Engine HS's. Inner Sphere mechs are supposed to be static in their loadout and yet in MWO we are allowed ot modify the crap out of them. Why is it the Clans no longer possess the ability to modify anything even though the whole Omni design philosophy is about modifying mechs.

I understand some of this is a balance consideration but I also think they are going a little bit overboard with the whole unable to modify an omni thing.

[Marcus Tanner]

Give IS mechs a bunch more module slots than clan mechs.

That way, clan tech can be strictly better without making the overall mech strictly better.

You could even allow IS mechs to carry some clan equipment by using 1 module slot to mount 1 clan gun... it wouldn't affect the balance much at that point, because the difference between an IS ERLL and a clan ERLL is plausibly equivalent to (or worse than) 1 module slot.

[Sable Phoenix]

PGI, you're in danger of making the majority of Clan strictly WORSE than their IS counterparts. Many already are, thanks to the massive design/customization restrictions they suffer from and the fact that you've made IS mechs far too customizable already. You cant keep balancing all of Clan tech on the backs of the Timberwolf, Dire Wolf and Stormcrow. if you continue to do so, you'll just drive more and more players to run nothing but those mechs because they will be the only competitive ones.

if you're going to loosen the design rules enough to allow IS players to customize things like internal structure and armor type, something which FUNCTIONALLY speaking, and per lore, should NOT be practically possible, then you need to also ignore similar rules for Clan tech and give the players more ability to optimize for actual competitive builds.

[pyrocomp]

In my opinion, based primarily on impression from novels, clans had superior armor/weapon systems (and in some places it is stated directly), but suffred more on the skill/usage side. Skill more in a sense of tactics rather than in ability to keep enemy Mech targeted. Thus, shouldn't their Mech designs suffer from same logic and tradition of full frontal assault and disregard of dishoronable ways (hits in the back, direct crippling of the enemy mech, rather than its destruction and so on). So maybe the clan Mechs still should have better and stronger armor and weaponry (as they should be), but have worse crits (lighter armor on the back), higher chances to crit something specifically for the attacks from the back or from the above and alike.
IS should never be able to gain any advantage over or even chances with Clan in head to head direct assault, but in tacticals Clans should fail. The better way to balance them without '12 normal IS Mechs equals 12 superior Clan Mechs'. Whats the difference then?
As addition for tonnage balancing consider Clan Mech being extra 5 tons hevier?

[Cronotekk]

nerfing clan mechs and making is mechs so some chasis will only be used one way *sigh*

[Kain Demos]

Hoax415, on 13 October 2014 - 05:52 PM, said:

I'm inclined to agree with Lily, not being able to toggle endo and FF or the even stranger not being able to put HS in open engine slots does create a have vs have not problem among the clan mechs.

HOWEVER.

Adding even more strain onto the balance between Clan and IS would be stupid at this time. Its probably a set of problems we'll need to adjust when/if PGI wants to add some non-omni clan chassis to the game.

I don't understand locking Endo and Ferro vs standard or the engine heat sinks at all. The best clan 'mechs already have these thigns "optimized" anyway so unlocking these would just help out 'mechs like the Nova and Summoner.

Hell, they could even unlock the engines to the way I believe it worked in tabletop where the engine rating was tied to your tonnage. Example--a Direwolf could only swap to a 200XL or 400XL.

Still not as customizable as the IS but better than what there is now.

The thing I want the most is full damage from the C-ERPPC though even if it is at the cost of a cycle time increase to 5 or 5.25 seconds. The IS has pinpoint damage all over the place so I don't see that excuse as holding water.

I think short cycle times on a lot of weapons (compared to MW4 anyway) led to a lot of problems here.

C-Gauss and C-ERPPC both had 8 second cycle times in MW4--I think if they were pretty long in this game (say 6 seconds since lasers are still very low in cycle time) people probably wouldn't use them outside of their intended role even if the velocities were bumped way up to where they should be.

Edited by Kain Thul, 03 November 2014 - 11:08 AM.

[M0rpHeu5]

Dont make is laser hoter, make clan cooler

[Hoax415]

Any word on when the next IS vs Clan test(s) will be?

Also can we PLEASE do the next test in the group queue only and have a get X wins challenge going on?

That should reduce the complaints that players are throwing the games for either side and should also increase the level of tryhard and quality of play that the data is coming from.

It also means players aren't forced to play Clan vs IS if the balance is still bad.

[CrushLibs]

Why micro manage all the mechs to a meta build?? Just do improvements to the overall weapons and then quirk specialty mechs like the awesome.

The Clan mechs or at least my DW looses a side torso my heat management goes down so be careful if you nerf that any more to a point where the mech is unplayable without one side torso.

Other areas should be addressed like removing small but annoying problems ie. getting stuck on pebbles (5 degrees incline increase) or rivercity statues (removal), fix hit boxes.

I don't understand how PGI can release dozens of mechs into the game but won't fix map issues or introduce maps in a timely manor.

[NocturnalBeast]

Kay Wolf, on 13 October 2014 - 05:21 AM, said:

For you Clan players who are having trouble with heat, keep in mind that you have between 20 and 70% more weapons you can add to your Clan 'Mechs; the weapons are lighter, raise less heat, and you still only have so much space in which to add Heat Sinks. So, the things you get as a bonus, also turns out to be a potential design penalty, so you actually have to be more careful than Inner Sphere pilots with your designs. Please consider all of that before you start crying about heat issues?

Remember that it is the mechanics of MWO that limit Clan mechs in such ways and allow you to go toe to toe with them using an IS mech, don't assume it is just due to your skill.

[Threat Doc]

True, but if you're going to be designing a Clan 'Mech, you're going to have to step up your design game and consider all the heat you're going to be building.

[NocturnalBeast]

Kay Wolf, on 08 November 2014 - 04:49 PM, said:

True, but if you're going to be designing a Clan 'Mech, you're going to have to step up your design game and consider all the heat you're going to be building.

Which greatly limits your build options. MWO allows every IS mechs to be completely customized and upgraded with lostech, which was not possible for the large majority of IS mechs in lore circa 3050. Omni mechs were designed to be able to easily change their loadouts between battles to tailor their role for the next battle.

[kosmos1214]

Ed Steele, on 08 November 2014 - 07:04 PM, said:

Which greatly limits your build options. MWO allows every IS mechs to be completely customized and upgraded with lostech, which was not possible for the large majority of IS mechs in lore circa 3050. Omni mechs were designed to be able to easily change their loadouts between battles to tailor their role for the next battle.

yes but what allows them to easily change there weapons makes some parts of them unchangeable do to not being able to change the part and still make the omni pod fit

[Barfing Gopher]

I just wish we could see what map we were going to, having the ability to modify your build for specific roles/battlefields is worthless if you have no idea where you are going (Terra Therma with a laser boat/Alpine with an Assault brawler.)