353 replies to this topic

[Lynx7725]

Moomtazz, on 18 September 2014 - 11:57 AM, said:

There is no skill involved with hitting R, moving the crosshair in the general area of the enemy, and mashing fire.

You pretty much describe my use of direct fire weapon. Target (some people don't target even), move the crosshairs into the general area of the enemy (to adjust for lead; lasers don't even do that), and mash fire.

People need to be honest about what they want out of this game. If they want a hero-type game where they can jump over obstacles and lay waste to everything in sight with their advanced big f**king gun. Or guns.

Or if they want a team-based game where they are individually of limited capabilities, but can bring all the bells and whistles a team can bring.

In a hero-type game where people get their fun from directly confronting the enemy (be they AI drones or real players), support type roles are simply not going to be appreciated.

I hate the LRM-spamming newb sitting in the back field like anyone else, because they bring a bad name to LRM specialists. But if you are keen on a team-based game, you learn to appreciate what a good LRM specialist brings to the team. Damage and kills aren't even the important thing when a LRM specialist gets to work; I can do hundreds of damage and still get not a single kill. That this is the norm, is indicative of the LRM's ineffectiveness as a killing weapon... which I accept is not and get on with the job of actually winning the game as a team.

[FatYak]

Ovion, on 17 September 2014 - 06:57 AM, said:

People who moan about LRMs I find, either have never used them, or stand out in the open waiting to die.

That's horse crap

The issue i have with LRMs is that when the match turns into a brawl, which they all end up doing, i then get killed by some LRM random from places unseen because the mech's im brawling with target me

No tag

No narc

Look at you and your dead

Edited by FatYak, 18 September 2014 - 08:08 PM.

[Wolfways]

FatYak, on 18 September 2014 - 08:01 PM, said:

That's horse crap

The issue i have with LRMs is that when the match turns into a brawl, which they all end up doing, i then get killed by some LRM random from places unseen because the mech's im brawling with target me

No tag

No narc

Look at you and your dead

So brawling forces you to move away from cover (i.e. stand out in the open waiting to die)?

[Mercules]

Wolfways, on 18 September 2014 - 09:27 PM, said:

So brawling forces you to move away from cover (i.e. stand out in the open waiting to die)?

And apparently not be near ECM or equip AMS.

[Lynx7725]

So the enemy brawler moved in under team LRM cover, to engage a presumably lone opposite mech (because if there are multiple targets, the brawler would be more cautious), and help to hold locks to enable teammates to continue to support.

So teamwork beats the crap out of an isolated target, yes?

[Kilo 40]

It's harder than ever to use LRMs effectively, and people are STILL crying about.

unbelievable.

[Wolfways]

I'm not sure what to think about LRM's or MWO players anymore. I have no problems with LRM's and think that any nerfs to them are a joke right now. Maybe they need some minor indirect-fire nerf (not the weapon itself, just the indirect-fire mechanic) but imo not until LRM's have had a substantial overall buff or three.

In the NGNG podcast#120 JagerXII said he has no problem with LRM's being nerfed and they are powerful in the current meta... That was the last thing i expected to hear from a high level player.

[Lyoto Machida]

Wolfways, on 18 September 2014 - 10:59 PM, said:

I'm not sure what to think about LRM's or MWO players anymore. I have no problems with LRM's and think that any nerfs to them are a joke right now. Maybe they need some minor indirect-fire nerf (not the weapon itself, just the indirect-fire mechanic) but imo not until LRM's have had a substantial overall buff or three.

In the NGNG podcast#120 JagerXII said he has no problem with LRM's being nerfed and they are powerful in the current meta... That was the last thing i expected to hear from a high level player.

That might be like criminals saying that police are OP and should be nerfed.

I don't watch his stream but I've never seen him in game using LRMs.

[ramjb]

Lyoto Machida, on 18 September 2014 - 11:28 PM, said:

In the NGNG podcast#120 JagerXII said he has no problem with LRM's being nerfed and they are powerful in the current meta... That was the last thing i expected to hear from a high level player.

Maybe because being a good player doesn't forcibly mean being totally blinfolded to an obvious reality. That you don't see it or don't agree with it doesn't mean isn't real.

[Joseph Mallan]

Wolfways, on 18 September 2014 - 10:59 PM, said:

I'm not sure what to think about LRM's or MWO players anymore. I have no problems with LRM's and think that any nerfs to them are a joke right now. Maybe they need some minor indirect-fire nerf (not the weapon itself, just the indirect-fire mechanic) but imo not until LRM's have had a substantial overall buff or three.

In the NGNG podcast#120 JagerXII said he has no problem with LRM's being nerfed and they are powerful in the current meta... That was the last thing i expected to hear from a high level player.

If they are OP... Why do players have to bring so many to be effective? I mean OP to my Understanding means Over Powered. So Why do Players bring LRM70 if the equipment is OP?

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 19 September 2014 - 02:10 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Moomtazz, on 18 September 2014 - 03:25 PM, said:

Big difference between a game and war, don't you think?

Yes but a War game should be gritty and feel like I am in the Sht! Without actually being in a life threatening position.

[ramjb]

Joseph Mallan, on 19 September 2014 - 02:09 AM, said:

If they are OP... Why do players have to bring so many to be effective? I mean OP to my Understanding means Over Powered. So Why do Players bring LRM70 if the equipment is OP?

Part of them being OP is, precisely ,that you can bring LRM70s to the battle. To then feed them with 2400 missiles.

[Joseph Mallan]

ramjb, on 19 September 2014 - 04:30 AM, said:

Part of them being OP is, precisely ,that you can bring LRM70s to the battle. To then feed them with 2400 missiles.

And completely canon!(minus the 13 tons of ammo)

Quote

A recent upgrade of the Longbow, the 12C variant is designed to maximize the 'Mech's fire support capabilities. The 'Mech has two LRM-20 launchers and two LRM-15 launchers, giving it an incredible bombardment capability and is capable of firing 40% more missiles down range than the base model. The 'Mech has three ER Small Lasers for close combat. The 12C variant is capable of doing this through the use of an XL engine that saves a great deal of weight.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 19 September 2014 - 04:36 AM.

[Fut]

Joshua Obrien, on 17 September 2014 - 02:28 AM, said:

I got locked onto while I was up on a cliff and started getting hit by lrms. I immediately backed off the cliff to receive cover from the hills and valley. This did not work, by the time I hit the ground I had already been hit by one wave of lrms. But they kept coming and coming and coming.

The damage they do is fine. If I'm out in the open I deserve to get molested by Lrms. That's my fault entirely. But behind cover that is quite a bit taller than me? There is no excuse.

From what I can gather, you backed up in a straight line and continued along this path once you lost LOS with the LRM thrower. Is this correct?

When an LRM user loses LOS with you, Missiles in flight will continue to your last known location - so if you only back up straight they're all going to hit you. What you have to do is break LOS, then move off to the side. The missiles will continue in a straight line and impact the ground where you just were.

The problem for a lot of people seems to be lack of knowledge in how the weapon system works. This isn't a slight towards you, or anybody actually, just what it sounds like for a lot of these "LRMs are the Worst" complaints.

Edit:
Keep in mind that people have Target Decay/Adv. Target Decay, so once you lose visual on them, their lock might remain for a moment. So keep moving off to the side even if you can't see where the missiles are coming from. It'll be obvious when the lock is lost.

Edit 2:

ramjb, on 19 September 2014 - 04:30 AM, said:

Part of them being OP is, precisely ,that you can bring LRM70s to the battle. To then feed them with 2400 missiles.

That's not the weapon system being OP though.
My HBK-GI uses a single LRM10 rack... Any nerfs to the "OP LRMs" would make that single rack of mine virtually useless.


Edit 3:

Lyoto Machida, on 18 September 2014 - 11:28 PM, said:

That might be like criminals saying that police are OP and should be nerfed.

Depends where you are, but from the look of things Police are becoming OP.



Much force for a "search warrant".. Who's house is that, the ghost of Al Capone?

Edited by Fut, 19 September 2014 - 04:50 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Fut, on 19 September 2014 - 04:36 AM, said:

From what I can gather, you backed up in a straight line and continued along this path once you lost LOS with the LRM thrower. Is this correct?

When an LRM user loses LOS with you, Missiles in flight will continue to your last known location - so if you only back up straight they're all going to hit you. What you have to do is break LOS, then move off to the side. The missiles will continue in a straight line and impact the ground where you just were.

The problem for a lot of people seems to be lack of knowledge in how the weapon system works. This isn't a slight towards you, or anybody actually, just what it sounds like for a lot of these "LRMs are the Worst" complaints.

Edit:
Keep in mind that people have Target Decay/Adv. Target Decay, so once you lose visual on them, their lock might remain for a moment. So keep moving off to the side even if you can't see where the missiles are coming from. It'll be obvious when the lock is lost.

Edit 2:


That's not the weapon system being OP though.
My HBK-GI uses a single LRM10 rack... Any nerfs to the "OP LRMs" would make that single rack of mine virtually useless.


Edit 3:


Depends where you are, but from the look of things Police are becoming OP.



Much force for a "search warrant".. Who's house is that, the ghost of Al Capone?

Sorry, no sympathy for him, the cameraman was a moron and needed arrested for it.

[Fut]

Joseph Mallan, on 19 September 2014 - 04:55 AM, said:

Sorry, no sympathy for him, the cameraman was a moron and needed arrested for it.

That wasn't really the point of me posting the video - was just trying to show how militarized US Police forces are becoming.
I will add though, that video taping police is not a crime, regardless of how much they try to tell people that it is. The dude was a good 20 feet away on the other side of the street, there's no way he was getting in the way or obstructing them.

But now we're really getting off on a tangent here... so how about them LRMs?

[Joseph Mallan]

No its not a crime, But the police have the right to tell you to stay back, and for your protection get in your house. Refusal is belligerent.

LRMs are fine. To much LRM isn't. That is called working as intended.

[The Basilisk]

Sorry but I realy think those who complain about LRMs beeing too strong never realy played an LRM Boat.
REALY effective LRM boats are quite difficult to play at the moment due to a hundred possible ways of evading or negating LRMs.

-- ECM: without the Help of TAG and/or counter ECM no lock --> no tracking
-- AntiLRM Mechs like Tripple AMS Kitfox and other dual AMS Mechs with AMS range and rapidfire booster. Even single AMS Mechs can just cuddle together and be totaly fine.
-- Radardeprivation: Sure a soft counter but it effectively restricts LRM to LOS
-- Misslespeed: too slow to track fast moving targets but too fast to get time to relock after loosing lock.

So if you get obliterated repeatedly by LRMs you either fail to stick with your group or you fail to pay attention, fail to carry AMS, fail to look for usable cower and so on ....

IS LRMs are too slow, too weak in direkt fire and too bothersome due to their minimum range.
Clan LRMs feel more like ACs with Tracking ability.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

The Basilisk, on 19 September 2014 - 05:20 AM, said:

Sorry but I realy think those who complain about LRMs beeing too strong never realy played an LRM Boat.
REALY effective LRM boats are quite difficult to play at the moment due to a hundred possible ways of evading or negating LRMs.

-- ECM: without the Help of TAG and/or counter ECM no lock --> no tracking
-- AntiLRM Mechs like Tripple AMS Kitfox and other dual AMS Mechs with AMS range and rapidfire booster. Even single AMS Mechs can just cuddle together and be totaly fine.
-- Radardeprivation: Sure a soft counter but it effectively restricts LRM to LOS
-- Misslespeed: too slow to track fast moving targets but too fast to get time to relock after loosing lock.

So if you get obliterated repeatedly by LRMs you either fail to stick with your group or you fail to pay attention, fail to carry AMS, fail to look for usable cower and so on ....

IS LRMs are too slow, too weak in direkt fire and too bothersome due to their minimum range.
Clan LRMs feel more like ACs with Tracking ability.

I said exactly thaqt several pages back lol

[Joseph Mallan]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 19 September 2014 - 05:28 AM, said:

I said exactly thaqt several pages back lol

To be fair, I believe you said it a year or so ago as well.