135 replies to this topic

[xeromynd]

I'm hoping the Summoner gets some quirks, or something to make people actually want to play it when it's surrounded by the choice of a TWolf, Hellbringer, or Vulture.

Start the chant with me....

Removable JJs.........
Removable JJs........
Removable JJs...............

[r4plez]

SpiralFace, on 19 September 2014 - 09:57 AM, said:

Not convinced on this.

If people where complaining about the summoner's lack of Endo limiting its frame, I can only imagine the complaining for a heavy mech with no JJ option, no endo, no ferro, Less overall armor, and an only mediocre engine locked to the frame.

Sure the ECM will be a nice utility. But if people are complaining about the Summoner's lack of pod space, I can only imagine the complaints the Hellbringer is going to get.

Loki will have same or even better pod space than Thor.

Edited by r4plez, 19 September 2014 - 10:11 AM.

[orcrist86]

Treat it like a fat shadow hawk. You'll get better.

[Bishop Steiner]

nehebkau, on 19 September 2014 - 09:58 AM, said:

Ok you caught me I was taking some creative license.
Truth:
Mist Lynx 113.4kph 25 tons
Ice Ferret: 129.6 kph 45 tons

For a 25 ton mech that is WAY too slow and it will get slaughtered quite quickly. Even with the extra 5 tons, its a weaker version of the Locust. There is NO reason to take this over a kitfox.

124 with tweak. plenty fast for most uses

[C E Dwyer]

Hustler1, on 19 September 2014 - 09:03 AM, said:

Actually, out of all the current clan mechs, i do best in the Summoner. 3 streak 6's and a pair of large lasers. Its not a terrible mech, you just need to know how to use it to be most effective. Hunt lights, hit and run, and poke at range with the lasers. Works pretty great

This is the build I like best, LL's give it long range poke, the streaks usually chained for close work

[Thorn Hallis]

I agree, Thor sucks. Deadpool is much cooler.

[Khobai]

Quote

Loki will have same or even better pod space than Thor.

Yes but the Loki wont have jumpjets. So its not outright better than the Thor. Theyre different.

Conversely the Mad Cat S is outright better than the Thor.

[nehebkau]

Utilyan, on 19 September 2014 - 09:59 AM, said:

Summoner Prime. Should be perched up on top of the tallest mountain and building. Raining down the lightning of ppc on everyone below. That's why when those space Vikings saw it......they said it was THOR!

nice imagery

[Nathan Foxbane]

xeromynd, on 19 September 2014 - 10:01 AM, said:

I'm hoping the Summoner gets some quirks, or something to make people actually want to play it when it's surrounded by the choice of a TWolf, Hellbringer, or Vulture.

Start the chant with me....

Removable JJs.........
Removable JJs........
Removable JJs...............

Um, no. Fixed jump jets just fine. If they allow the removal of jump jets the next thing people will demand is engine rating, armor type, or internal structure type changes. Then it all goes down hill from there. Let them get in a quirk pass first, before demanding more radical changes.

[Joseph Mallan]

Thorn Hallis, on 19 September 2014 - 10:07 AM, said:

I agree, Thor sucks. Deadpool is much cooler.

Lets see Thor do this!

[Mcgral18]

SpiralFace, on 19 September 2014 - 09:57 AM, said:

Not convinced on this.

If people where complaining about the summoner's lack of Endo limiting its frame, I can only imagine the complaining for a heavy mech with no JJ option, no endo, no ferro, Less overall armor, and an only mediocre engine locked to the frame.

Sure the ECM will be a nice utility. But if people are complaining about the Summoner's lack of pod space, I can only imagine the complaints the Hellbringer is going to get.

DV McKenna, on 19 September 2014 - 09:59 AM, said:

As pointed out the Hellbringer has just over 20 tons pod space on the prime, and no AP Pods, armor won't be an issue. ERML and SRM builds are light tonnage, so would be a ranged ECM sniper.

23.5 tons maxed, 25 tons with a stripped arm and max everywhere else.

More hardpoints, more tonnage, marginally less armour. It also has the Magic Jesus Box. Hitbox depending, it will be better.

It can't jump, but that's about it. It will do nearly everything else better, aside from boating missiles. The 60 ton Vulture takes that honour.

[ApolloKaras]

xeromynd, on 19 September 2014 - 10:01 AM, said:

I'm hoping the Summoner gets some quirks, or something to make people actually want to play it when it's surrounded by the choice of a TWolf, Hellbringer, or Vulture.

Start the chant with me....

Removable JJs.........
Removable JJs........
Removable JJs...............

noooooooo we cant do that cause rules!

[Kirkland Langue]

Nathan Foxbane, on 19 September 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

Um, no. Fixed jump jets just fine. If they allow the removal of jump jets the next thing people will demand is engine rating, armor type, or internal structure type changes. Then it all goes down hill from there. Let them get in a quirk pass first, before demanding more radical changes.

This quote makes me want to reach through my monitor and strangle you.
Using such a ridiculous "slippery slope" argument is ... far beyond absurd.

While you are at it, why not go ahead and paint the specter of people asking for the Summoner to be given an additional 500T of carrying capacity?

Removable JJ's would be a fine way to improve the Summoner - even though it takes away part of what the summoner is supposed to be.

[Cavendish]

nehebkau, on 19 September 2014 - 09:58 AM, said:

Even with the extra 5 tons, its a weaker version of the Locust. There is NO reason to take this over a kitfox.

Depending on its size and profile there could be really good reasons for taking the Mist Lynx over the Kit Fox.

[InspectorG]

Bishop Steiner, on 19 September 2014 - 10:04 AM, said:

124 with tweak. plenty fast for most uses

Dunno.

Depends on Hitboxes and agility.

If its an amped up Commando, ill use it even if it doesnt run at 171 or 136(2D?)

As far as the Summoner, give it agility(turn, acceleration, reverse speed), JJ(more boost similar to pre-nerf), heatsink(1.6 per instead of 1.4) quirks. Twolf can be the broadsword, Summoner can be the rapier

[Nathan Foxbane]

Kirkland Langue, on 19 September 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

This quote makes me want to reach through my monitor and strangle you.
Using such a ridiculous "slippery slope" argument is ... far beyond absurd.

While you are at it, why not go ahead and paint the specter of people asking for the Summoner to be given an additional 500T of carrying capacity?

Removable JJ's would be a fine way to improve the Summoner - even though it takes away part of what the summoner is supposed to be.

No it destroys the concept of an Omnimech and podspace. The jump jets are fixed equipment, just like the flamer on an Adder or the active probe on a Myst Lynx. You deal with them, besides if you pull the jets you might as well as add endo steel and release the Thor II six decades ahead of schedule. And 500 tons? Really? What would be the point in doing something where the math does not add up. I raise this supposed specter because I have seen people ask for all these things on these very forums.

[r4plez]

Mcgral18, on 19 September 2014 - 10:18 AM, said:

23.5 tons maxed, 25 tons with a stripped arm and max everywhere else.

More hardpoints, more tonnage, marginally less armour. It also has the Magic Jesus Box. Hitbox depending, it will be better.

It can't jump, but that's about it. It will do nearly everything else better, aside from boating missiles. The 60 ton Vulture takes that honour.

Actually Loki Prime at least 27t of pod space , based on PGI loadout sheet, and thats only weapons, ammo, ECM, BAP, TC mkIII - strip armor you get more

Edited by r4plez, 19 September 2014 - 10:45 AM.

[Mcgral18]

r4plez, on 19 September 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

Actually Loki Prime at least 27t of pod space , based on PGI loadout sheet, and thats only weapons, ammo, ECM, BAP, TG - strip armor you get more

Armour. That brings it down.

Go add it up if you want, I've done it a couple times already.

[Joseph Mallan]

Saxie, on 19 September 2014 - 10:19 AM, said:

noooooooo we cant do that cause rules!

You have no idea how true that is. and

if you could do it it would be because of...
Say it with me...
Rules.

[Kirkland Langue]

Nathan Foxbane, on 19 September 2014 - 10:38 AM, said:

No it destroys the concept of an Omnimech and podspace. The jump jets are fixed equipment, just like the flamer on an Adder or the active probe on a Myst Lynx. You deal with them, besides if you pull the jets you might as well as add endo steel and release the Thor II six decades ahead of schedule. And 500 tons? Really? What would be the point in doing something where the math does not add up. I raise this supposed specter because I have seen people ask for all these things on these very forums.

It's one thing to argue, "Removable JJs would break the lore behind Omnimechs" and something completely different to say, "here I'll paint a slippery slope which will happen if you give in on this one request." Don't try to mix the two arguments in an effort to make each argument seem reasonable. Slippery Slope arguments are never reasonable arguments.

I'm ok with someone wanting to maintain the rocked JJ's for Lore reasons - but at the same time, it's very easy to see that Timberwolf is strictly superior to the Summoner, and that something should be done.