124 replies to this topic

[Bront]

cruxholzer, on 14 October 2014 - 09:31 AM, said:

Really balance? The dire wolf is the most Op Mech in the game. Do people rally think it needs a buff? 80% of the matches I drop Pug or Group there is a Dire wolf with over 1000 damage points and multiple kills. People crapped their pants about Boom Jagers, Splat Cats, Poptarts, LRM Apocolypse. You didn't see the same damage numbers and kills as often with those Mechs as you do with the Dire Wolf. I don't want to hear this stuff about oh it has weakness to take advantage of, sure but that doesn't mean it's not OP. Lots of assaults have almost the same weakness as the Direwolf they are not pulling the same face wrecking.

The Direwolf above all Mechs needs to be brought into line with the rest of the assault class Mechs. Of course the Direwolf can be killed but it's absolutly OP.

The problem is a few specific loadouts more than just the plain old Dire Wolf. It's slow, it can't turn well, most loadouts can't move the arms sideways, most of the firepower is in the arms, and the torso makes it exceptionally vulnerable to LRMs.

Alone, many IS mechs can take a Dire Wolf. Stalkers can spread damage better (in fact, if it closes toe to toe, the Dire Wolf can't hit a Stalker due to it's profile), The Atlas can tank better and has ECM as an option, Battlemasters and Victors are faster, Highlanders can jump. There are plenty of evening factors.

The issue isn't the mech, but some of the weapon loadouts it can take. Dual Gauss Dual PPC is just deadly with a 50+10 point alpha, some ballistic loadouts are just gross, and it can laser vomit with the best of mechs. However, unlike the Timberwolf or Storm Crow, it doesn't have awesome hit boxes and great speed to supplement it's arsenal.

[DarthPeanut]

The Dire turret is just fine and needs no buff to speed or twist rate.

Any change to them would make them even more ridiculously powerful and out of line.

[Cruxs]

Ph30nix, on 14 October 2014 - 09:40 AM, said:

actually vs any of the viable assault mechs a dire whale is at a disadvantage, Ask any Direwolf or IS assault pilot who knows what they are doing and you will hear that most of the time in a fair fight the direwolf is going to lose or walk away with barely anything holding it together.

as for the Boom jagers and splats cats, the reason they didnt hit those damages was because THEY DIDNT NEED TO they were able to get the same # of kills with 1/2 the damage thanks to less spread damage.

id rather see a direwolf on the field any day then a competent boom jager.

seriously TRY a direwolf, Try the "cheese" builds and your going to find they SUCK after their opening shots. If you miss or your enemy survives your opening attack you are going to be in a tight spot because you will probably be at 80% heat already.

and as for the 6 uac5 build its garbage, a joke dakka build yes it can put some pain but just like a 4 uac2 jager it requires you to be fully exposed at all times.



tells me the enemies had really horrible aim and they should have all just focused the legs or CT

The only way the Direwolf is at a disadvantage is in close quarter combat with cover. Even then only a select few IS assault mech builds will work. That is if you can get close enough without being wrecked first. You still can't dispute the KILLS AND DAMAGE NUMBERS the Direwolf constantly puts up. Before Clan mechs 900 point games were awesome now 1200 point games for lots of people is the norm. You can't feed me this bull about balance. Its OP!

[Ph30nix]

Bront, on 14 October 2014 - 09:50 AM, said:

The problem is a few specific loadouts more than just the plain old Dire Wolf. It's slow, it can't turn well, most loadouts can't move the arms sideways, most of the firepower is in the arms, and the torso makes it exceptionally vulnerable to LRMs.

Alone, many IS mechs can take a Dire Wolf. Stalkers can spread damage better (in fact, if it closes toe to toe, the Dire Wolf can't hit a Stalker due to it's profile), The Atlas can tank better and has ECM as an option, Battlemasters and Victors are faster, Highlanders can jump. There are plenty of evening factors.

The issue isn't the mech, but some of the weapon loadouts it can take. Dual Gauss Dual PPC is just deadly with a 50+10 point alpha, some ballistic loadouts are just gross, and it can laser vomit with the best of mechs. However, unlike the Timberwolf or Storm Crow, it doesn't have awesome hit boxes and great speed to supplement it's arsenal.

the only good thing the direwolf has is the dual gauss, everything else is okay at best.
Laser vomit takes you to heat cap in one salvo ( 2 erll and 6erml fired in groups and your at cap in 1.5 salvos)
2 PPC's is just as bad on heat and you also have the hit reg issues to deal with (not so bad on other assaults or stationary targets but anything moving and blah)
the dakka builds are meh thanks to the spread damage.

its not Underpowered or anything, but its builds aren't OP either they are just evil in certain situations almost all of which are avoidable by the target.

Edited by Ph30nix, 14 October 2014 - 10:01 AM.

[Ph30nix]

cruxholzer, on 14 October 2014 - 09:59 AM, said:

The only way the Direwolf is at a disadvantage is in close quarter combat with cover. Even then only a select few IS assault mech builds will work. That is if you can get close enough without being wrecked first. You still can't dispute the KILLS AND DAMAGE NUMBERS the Direwolf constantly puts up. Before Clan mechs 900 point games were awesome now 1200 point games for lots of people is the norm. You can't feed me this bull about balance. Its OP!

Getting close enough is 100% a pilot skill/map layout issue not a mech op issue,
and i still see IS mech pilots who can reach the same number of kills and dont need as much damage to do it.
so please realize DAMAGE IS NOT A RELIABLE MEASUREMENT OF ANYTHING
also there is a skill issue, everyone i see complaining about the direwolf is in solo que mid to low ELO ranges which i can say mid range is my home as well i believe so im not knocking it.
Games i drop in my Direwolf i can usually tell what ELO range i got thrown with, if i see a enemy mech just sitting in the open trying to take potshots at other mechs i am happy to put them out of their misery.
Also i know when i get put with the higher ELO people because those are the games i usually get wrecked sometimes horribly so.....
getting pecked to death by 2 spiders is the most horrific way to go possible.

[1453 R]

cruxholzer, on 14 October 2014 - 09:59 AM, said:

The only way the Direwolf is at a disadvantage is in close quarter combat with cover. Even then only a select few IS assault mech builds will work. That is if you can get close enough without being wrecked first. You still can't dispute the KILLS AND DAMAGE NUMBERS the Direwolf constantly puts up. Before Clan mechs 900 point games were awesome now 1200 point games for lots of people is the norm. You can't feed me this bull about balance. Its OP!

Damage numbers don't define OP. Killing ability, and survivability, define OP.

Is the Dire Whale disproportionately good at ending the lives of other players? No. It's got awe-inspiring firepower, but it's so sluggish and difficult to maneuver around that it's only disproportionately good at killing nimrods who stand in front of it and try to beat it in a DPS race. Against opponents who've switched their brains on, the Mired Whale is exceptionally vulnerable to getting outflanked and picked apart. It requires its teammates to cover it and protect its flanks, and even if its team does that, there's no reason for its enemies to just conveniently stand there and get blasted apart. All that unbelievable firepower the Whale carries is hampered pretty tremendously by its mobility.

Yes, it's an absolute face-smasher against idiots who have no idea how to deal with it, but if you do have a clue? You can take out a Whale mano-a-mano in just about anything else that isn't a Whale. I have zero issues whatsoever with them in my Stormcrows, provided I see the Whale before it sees me. And if the Whale spots me first, well, that's on my head, isn't it?

[Scout Derek]

1453 R, on 14 October 2014 - 09:32 AM, said:

Dherek. Seriously, man.

You're not going to see fifty tons of gun moving as nimbly as a pre-Giganerf Victor. The Mired Whale is brutally slow and sluggish for a reason, and that reason is that absolutely nothing[ beats it in a face-to-face encounter. Nothing. Not one thing does that. Avoiding those face-to-face encounters is the only way to drop a Mired Whale, and so Piranha has to make it possible to do just that.

If you want the Mired Whale to be able to swiftly defend itself in an agile manner against a swarm of light 'Mechs attacking it? What you actually want is to play something else, because a Dire Whale able to do that would be several times worse than the current Timber Wolf. Or even the Invasion release Timber Wolf.

Dude, I dont gove a single **** about how fast it moves, i Just want a bit of a faster torso twist, not ALOT, a bit.

[Redshift2k5]

If your DW is too slow, buy a fracking Warhawk or a Timberwolf.

[1453 R]

Scout Derek, on 14 October 2014 - 10:15 AM, said:

Dude, I dont gove a single **** about how fast it moves, i Just want a bit of a faster torso twist, not ALOT, a bit.

Torso twist is part and parcel of how a 'Mech moves

A Mired Whale confined to its usual 50-odd KPH, but with the torso agility of a Timber Wolf, would be a Mired Whale which is far too swift and responsive for its own good. If you want a quicker Whale, there's arm and torso omnipod choices that give it one elbow and a 10% twist rate. Use those, and deal with the loss of overall firepower those omnipods represent. That's the trade you'll have to make in order to try and un-mire a Mired Whale.

[kapusta11]

You noticed that as well? I thought I was the only one. A buff to 90kph would be nice, and 0.5 ton JJs.

[Scout Derek]

Redshift2k5, on 14 October 2014 - 10:20 AM, said:

If your DW is too slow, buy a fracking Warhawk or a Timberwolf.

Um, I kind of stated that earlier, btw, if you're smart, you would've read this entire topic first before commenting, not saying that you aren't smart...

[Monkey Lover]

Only going to get worse once they buff all the IS mechs. Clans are not worth owning. I wish i could sell mine for MC.

[Scout Derek]

1453 R, on 14 October 2014 - 10:27 AM, said:

Torso twist is part and parcel of how a 'Mech moves

A Mired Whale confined to its usual 50-odd KPH, but with the torso agility of a Timber Wolf, would be a Mired Whale which is far too swift and responsive for its own good. If you want a quicker Whale, there's arm and torso omnipod choices that give it one elbow and a 10% twist rate. Use those, and deal with the loss of overall firepower those omnipods represent. That's the trade you'll have to make in order to try and un-mire a Mired Whale.

Thanks for stating that, though a friend of mine said that earlier (DONTOR), but thanks for clarifying.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Direwolf isn't too slow.

You're too fast.

[Scout Derek]

I Zeratul I, on 14 October 2014 - 10:38 AM, said:

Direwolf isn't too slow.

You're too fast.

...

[Bhael Fire]

Actually, the more I think about it, it would probably be a good idea if the DWF could go about 90 kph and have JJs.

Also ECM would help it.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Scout Derek, on 14 October 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

...

"Big, strong and clumsy" sum up the direwolf well. If the direwolf were big, strong and agile it would be OP. It makes sense for the direwolf to have negatives of relatively slow top speed, to balance out its positives.

It also makes sense to have a front line mech locked to 53 kph to *raise awareness* of the tendency some have to abandon slow movers and screw themselves in the process. Losing a 100 ton clan mech because you couldn't bring yourself to wait for it to catch up to you. Or offer support to it when required. These are basics everyone should recognize and understand.

[Sethliopod]

Two Direwolves can often kill one light--sometimes in under three seconds from 100%. It takes two lights far longer--and they better not make one mis-step! Lights clearly need more armor and guns.

Each choice takes the exact same amount of space on our drop ships. Each one counts exactly the same in determining who wins.

If tonnage actually mattered, as in: one DW drop equals three Light drops, then I would worry about the DW's torso twist.

[kapusta11]

Bhael Fire, on 14 October 2014 - 10:40 AM, said:

Actually, the more I think about it, it would probably be a good idea if the DWF could go about 90 kph and have JJs.

Also ECM would help it.

Hey...

[Bhael Fire]

kapusta11, on 14 October 2014 - 10:51 AM, said:

Hey...

Reiterating your idea.