724 replies to this topic

[mania3c]

KraftySOT, on 27 October 2014 - 08:56 AM, said:

Yes it will. Because theres ten thousand battletech players who are waiting for this game to not suck, so they can either come aboard, or come back.

No one cares about the CoD MOAR CBILLS!!!! crowd or what they think honestly. This is why this thread s 24 pages long with only 3 people whining consistently about the payouts, and NO dev will touch this with a 10 foot poll.

If you dont like it. Theres the door.

Weve got plenty of people waiting to take your spot.

What about people who never write anything..who just silently goes away and will never look back? yes buddy...I am pretty sure..there are much more of these than these waiting to hop into the game..when it will not suck..

honestly..MWO is probably the best mechwarrior game I ever played.. combat is bloody awesome...and even with all these bad things and balance problems..MWO is just masterpiece if we are talking about actual combat mech experience and feel..and many people I know feel the same..

however..they wont touch the game with current grind..sad thing is..they don't care anymore..and these people wont be replaced..

Edited by mania3c, 27 October 2014 - 09:05 AM.

[hybrid black]

KraftySOT, on 27 October 2014 - 09:01 AM, said:

Yeah, he makes statement about WoT, then goes on to say he never actually played WoT.

Troooooooll




Nope. Go to a con and ask them. Its resoundingly apparent what drives them away.

Time to kill.

Board game players are not into action games. Period.


By the way I was JUST at Dragon*Con two months ago talking about this with a room full of battletech players.

Its time to kill. They can speak for themselves on the issue. Go to the next big Con and ask them yourself.

Well said i wish they would double recycle rates of weapons and reduce heat dissipation to counter it

Edited by hybrid black, 27 October 2014 - 09:09 AM.

[KraftySOT]

Vassago Rain, on 27 October 2014 - 09:02 AM, said:

A little fun fact here.

An actual professional, after PGI let slip what their equipment actually was, calculated that if it's the best brand, and they're running it at max potential, with the best components, and have everything optimized, they could host a mere 9000 players at any given time.

As in, 9000 people could be logged into MWO and playing games simultaneously. No more, and that was in a best case dream scenario, where they had the best of the best - which they did not.

They recently moved from the old IGP center to a new, unspecified one, but it doesn't seem they have expanded. A PGI guy on reddit's been saying that they're thinking of expanding, but they've yet to do any of it. Simply, they moved from location A, to location B, and upgraded to modern hardware that has the same capacity as the old.

Draw your own conclusions from that.

Very very true, im aware of those things. But still, hitting the max, when its never been hit before...IS progess in the players in-game front.

I dont think capacity dropped during the move, and it surely wasnt increased. 9000 seems a tad high, 7500 on at once seems to be more reasonable given they probably arent sitting on a stack of SunSystems over there.

Albeit that is a low number...but its also not terrible. 7500 people on at once, is putting total player base up around 30-40k.

Thats profitable given the business model. More is better of course, but I dont think PGI is even ATTEMPTING to try and draw in new players until the game is actually pleasing the old players and founders.

If you cant please your hardcore fans, youll never please "the masses". So I think for thier own future, theyre concentrating on making what we have, work with who we have, before they do anything about 'new player experience' and Russ said that on twitter to the same effect.

[Alexander MacTaggart]

Vassago Rain, on 27 October 2014 - 09:02 AM, said:

Draw your own conclusions from that.

The other night I played for about 3 hours and spotted at least 3 names I recognized from the forums (Viktor Drake, Stefka Kerensky, PappySmurf) in matches I played.

I've played a lot of MMOs and online games in general, and you generally never come across so many recognizable names at once because the playerbase is so large in comparison. It's simple statistics.

So that particular night really stood out to me.

[KraftySOT]

hybrid black, on 27 October 2014 - 09:04 AM, said:

Well said i wish thry would double recycle rates of of weapons and reduce heat dissipation to counter it

Ive tweeted Russ at least 7 times to put these options on the test server so people can see. Id like everyone to at least experience what the game would be like if things moved both faster, and slower.

Lets see what triple armor is like, or halved recycle rates, or even doubled. Pacing is an issue in MWO.

mania3c, on 27 October 2014 - 09:03 AM, said:

What about people who never write anything..who just silently goes away and will never look back? yes buddy...I am pretty sure..there are much more of these than these waiting to hop into the game..when it will not suck..

honestly..MWO is probably the best mechwarrior game I ever played.. combat is bloody awesome...and even with all these bad things and balance problems..MWO is just masterpiece if we are talking about actual combat mech experience and feel..and many people I know feel the same..

however..they wont touch the game with current grind..sad thing is..they don't care anymore..and these people wont be replaced..

Theres no accounting for taste.

[Mystere]

Assiah, on 27 October 2014 - 08:50 AM, said:

No there isn't, discouragement is a punishment based behavioral control tactic. The only difference in your mind is the severity of that punishment, it is still telling someone that what they are doing is not right and you will penalize them for it.

The "out" is increasing the number/variety of awarded behaviors.

Also, note that Football (i.e. not the American kind ) has an "offside" rule that results in a free indirect kick for the other team. Think of the rewards system as the part of the "rules of the game".

Edited by Mystere, 27 October 2014 - 09:16 AM.

[Assiah]

Vassago Rain, on 27 October 2014 - 09:03 AM, said:

lol okay.

Does sound familiar, though. Hmmm, where have I heard things like this before...

you know, now that you mention it, both krafty and hybrid are reminding me a lot of heffay the overgold. Lots of hyperbole and a need to resort to insults and ad hom when they can't refute an argument.

[The Boz]

"US Realm pop: 14,480,650 Characters"
Characters, dude. Characters.

[SpeedingBus]

Mystere, on 27 October 2014 - 09:09 AM, said:

The "out" is increasing the number/variety of awarded behavior.

Also, note that Football (i.e. not the American kind ) has an "offside" rule that results in a free indirect kick for the other team. Think of the rewards system as the part of the "rules of the game".

I am kinda confused how your talking about rules of a game and somehow comparing that to rewards..... it doesn't make any sense I can't just ignore heat system and keep firing my guns unlike rewards which you can completely ignore.

Edited by SpeedingBus, 27 October 2014 - 09:15 AM.

[KraftySOT]

Alexander MacTaggart, on 27 October 2014 - 09:07 AM, said:

The other night I played for about 3 hours and spotted at least 3 names I recognized from the forums (Viktor Drake, Stefka Kerensky, PappySmurf) in matches I played.

I've played a lot of MMOs and online games in general, and you generally never come across so many recognizable names at once because the playerbase is so large in comparison. It's simple statistics.

So that particular night really stood out to me.

Oh yeah ive seen everyone in game pretty much. Bishop, Lefty, Cavale, Koni, Bill, 11011, pretty much every forum warrior that even drops solo queue.

The player base is small. Thats not in debate. However we ARE growing in the past two months. Vassago is only here because he was invited back.

Theyre trying to turn this **** around for the people "that matter" ie the founders, the whales, the long time players, the dedicated loyalists, and the disenfranchised competitive crowd.

New players dont help. New players come in, make the same posts the people who have experience make, but without any real experience. It clogs up the process and they make these wildly insane posts without having any idea whats been going on. Then they quit, they write nasty reviews, tell their friends not to play, etc.

They cant fix the game over night. They simply cant.

But clearly its folly to dedicate time and resources to pleasing new players, over old players. Please the core, the rest will follow.

Thats why Comic book movies turned themselves around. Every comic, or video game to movie adaptation was horrible, because it didnt please the core fans and they didnt bring their friends along. You have to please the core fans.

[hybrid black]

KraftySOT, on 27 October 2014 - 09:09 AM, said:

Ive tweeted Russ at least 7 times to put these options on the test server so people can see. Id like everyone to at least experience what the game would be like if things moved both faster, and slower.

Lets see what triple armor is like, or halved recycle rates, or even doubled. Pacing is an issue in MWO.




Theres no accounting for taste.

I agree use the test server for testing i know i would go on if they updated the test server every week or two woth what there working on

[Assiah]

Mystere, on 27 October 2014 - 09:09 AM, said:

The "out" is increasing the number/variety of awarded behavior.

Also, note that Football (i.e. not the American kind ) has an "offside" rule that results in a free indirect kick for the other team. Think of the rewards system as the part of the "rules of the game".

football/soccer is a different animal. You don't need to pay someone to play it, you just need a ball, a field and some friends. Competitive soccer, and in fact any competitive sport, will have rules set up to make for a good fair game that will be enjoyable to watch. We don't watch MWO, we play it. For us the players are the consumers, for competitive sports, the players are the product. It is not the same thing.

[Mr Beefy]

One of my biggest issues with the "drama queens" if that is a word to define what is happening with some of the replies in this thread. Many of us have given " our opinions" as to why we are concerned with the old and present earnings punishing new and Veteran players alike unless they play by a list of points PGI puts forth to reward the "type of play" from players they think will help with motivating team play/role warfare.

All of us that are making argument, (IMO, is not just whining/complaining) if done in a civil and constructive way, are bringing up very specific examples of why we believe the earnings for C-bills and XP/GXP need a 30-50% boost.

The key to our argument, while some say is just our misguided, selfish, we want more for free, rant, is backed by factual information we have taken the time to type up, giving examples of specific events that have happened, during our games played, or with people we have tried to get to play the game, (new players) and ones we play or have played with over the last year or two.

If you really need more proof, at least to my claim and concern that the old system, and the new one, the very painful grind it creates given the very long time it takes to progress ones account, new and veteran players alike..... I guess I could go back and compress the 150 frap video's from games the last event for the player base to set the sale price on the Crow and Shadows and mech bays.

With in those video's, it will show one very real Style of play, and that is in 80% of drops, out of around 150 games.... there was always 1-3 players at least, that would not go for the primary objective set forth by PGI, given what game mode we dropped in. And not only would they not go for the base capture, and this works both ways, not defending the base if we was attacked, they would go out of their way to go after the biggest Red ball they could find on the radar, and their only goal was to "KILL em all" When asked by their entire team why they would blow a sure win, and not to kill the last mech, Many of them made it very clear, in chat...." I need C-bills to buy stuff, killing is the only thing that pays in this game, don't like it, TOO BAD."
This is just one example of how many players, given the very low and painful grind we have and have had all along, exploit this system, and any system that pays out so low with the earnings VS. time spent playing the game. It is counter productive, and with some players.... not all mind you, it creates a toxic in game play experience for the ones that try to play for fun, and as a team always.... not just when it suits us or when we get to the point of 115 million C-bill bank in our account.

This is a concern... and counter productive to PGI's bottomline, and toxic to keep players new and veteran alike. To say it is my opinion, is just insane... I think it would be safe to say we all see this type of "Team players" in many games we drop.


At the current prices for everything, and the low pay out we have had and have now.... Even Veteran players, and for sure New players can't not even begin to figure out the time it will take to earn such a amount let alone save it giving the price's on everything and the vast amount of content for sale right now.

Back in the day, with only 9 mechs released, limited modules/none to buy, no DHS, I could understand PGI wanting to keep a very tight cap on earnings.... However this is no longer the case and with the current content alone, and with more and more coming every month.... This is a very large problem for New and Veteran players alike, we are saying that many players, myself included, have a issue with the very painful time vs rewards for our time. As for the numbers...yep PGI has them, and we don't know for sure.

IMO, and many have voiced the same or similar concern/ Opinion, This is not only thinning the player base we have, It is counter productive and will not help keep New players coming in that like the game, but can not see the light at the end of a very long and painful tunnel with the lack of earnings vs. time spent to obtain them. It would seem to me that it is not just new players stating there "opinions" on this, but veteran players are in fact expressing the same concern.

IMO, base on playing this game for hundreds of hours over the last year, and videos I have of the in game footage from fraps, I have seen a very real pattern start to appear, in game and on the forums. IMO, a very productive way to solve these concerns/complaints would be to raise the earnings by 30-50% for all. IMO, it would solve many concerns, Issues I have seen first hand in game's, with some players play style they claim are "team play" and it would do it in such a way that everyone would be happy about it. Happy players may not bring a gold rush of more players for PGI, but at the very least it will bring them in more money from the current player base we do have. IMO, it will bring in new player's and it will have a better chance of keeping here, and in the long run, they will spend more money if they don't feel like they are being punished to be here. If they have the C-bills and XP to buy and upgrade their mechs, Logic only says that they will in fact do so.

This means more dollars to PGI's Bottom line, Mech bays will be needed, players will want to buy the bling, and not think twice about doing so if they can afford to. I could be wrong, but If our "opinions" are right, would this not be a very productive way to help support, pay for the continued development to better this game, and build a player base that is healthy, that is sustainable, and will take very low effort on PGI's part to make this positive change take effect?

If your opinion is "NO, I don't believe it will bring a positive change." Please, share some thoughts, maybe even some facts from what you have seen in game play, and in the forums that will help Me understand your opinion on this topic.

I believe that most of us care about this game, we want it do well and grow.... that is why we have over 20 pages of replies regarding this topic.

[KraftySOT]

And frankly PGI doesnt care about you, they care about Vassago.

Its crazy, but they do. Thats who they want to please right now. If they can get Vassago to like this game and be positive, theyre on the right track. He's a great measuring stick if not lethargic. If he's pissed, youre really screwing up.

However this has absolutely nothing to do with Cbill payouts, which are fine, if you have some idea wtf youre doing and wont just shove your head in the sand screaming "I WANT TO BE REWARDED FOR PLAYING THE WAY I PLAY, I HAVE TWO HOURS A WEEK TO PLAY AND I WANT A DIREWOLF MASTERED FOR FREE IN TWO HOURS OR I QUIT!!!"

[Alexander MacTaggart]

KraftySOT, on 27 October 2014 - 09:12 AM, said:

But clearly its folly to dedicate time and resources to pleasing new players, over old players. Please the core, the rest will follow.

No, it really isn't. The 'core' you mean, the hardcore competitive crowd, is almost never the majority of the playerbase. You have to find a way to keep them engaged while also catering to the majority, who are the more important portion.

It doesn't matter at all what PGI does if there's not enough people playing the game. The hardcore crowd and the whales will never be enough to keep the game going. You need new players and you need them to stick around or there is no game.

[Vassago Rain]

KraftySOT, on 27 October 2014 - 09:06 AM, said:

Very very true, im aware of those things. But still, hitting the max, when its never been hit before...IS progess in the players in-game front.

I dont think capacity dropped during the move, and it surely wasnt increased. 9000 seems a tad high, 7500 on at once seems to be more reasonable given they probably arent sitting on a stack of SunSystems over there.

Albeit that is a low number...but its also not terrible. 7500 people on at once, is putting total player base up around 30-40k.

Thats profitable given the business model. More is better of course, but I dont think PGI is even ATTEMPTING to try and draw in new players until the game is actually pleasing the old players and founders.

If you cant please your hardcore fans, youll never please "the masses". So I think for thier own future, theyre concentrating on making what we have, work with who we have, before they do anything about 'new player experience' and Russ said that on twitter to the same effect.

Actually, back in closed and early open beta, the game had a much larger population than it does now, and they were running on a lot more of IGP's hardware. There were even plans for them to expand to region specific servers, so pings could be brought down across the board, but by the time that came up again, as we all know by now, the pop had sank like a lead atlas.

They would routinely give out the hypest numbers for big sales items, like the highlander hero, how many hero mechs were killed during event X, when they hit 1 million accounts total made, and so on.

Such is life in the inner sphere.

For comparison purposes, the by now actually ancient utopia, a 1998 browser game with no graphics or anything, commands some 7500 players to return for each ladder reset.

[KraftySOT]

Dude you have 234 posts, and havent spent oodles of cash Mr Beefy.

Why...would anyone....listen to you. Not just us, but...PGI? They have someone they pay a salary too, who is the lead designer, who thinks about these things.

Besides "MOAR CBILLS OR THE GAME DIES!!!"

What do you offer?

[Assiah]

hybrid black, on 27 October 2014 - 09:13 AM, said:

I agree use the test server for testing i know i would go on if they updated the test server every week or two woth what there working on

yeah I never got their way of running a test server, seems counter intuitive to me, only open it up for a few days then close it and push the build to live regardless of feedback. I think they would benefit more with a setup like Planetside 2 and their test server, leave it up, constantly make updates and listen to feedback.

[Mystere]

SpeedingBus, on 27 October 2014 - 09:12 AM, said:

I am kinda confused how your talking about rules of a game and somehow comparing that to rewards..... it doesn't make any sense I can't just ignore heat system and keep firing my guns unlike rewards which you can completely ignore.

Look at the rewards system as a collection of "rules" that govern how you earn c-bills and XP based on your in-game behavior.

Assiah, on 27 October 2014 - 09:14 AM, said:

football/soccer is a different animal. You don't need to pay someone to play it, you just need a ball, a field and some friends. Competitive soccer, and in fact any competitive sport, will have rules set up to make for a good fair game that will be enjoyable to watch. We don't watch MWO, we play it. For us the players are the consumers, for competitive sports, the players are the product. It is not the same thing.

See above.


(Honest question for everyone: Was it really that difficult to figure out from my words?)

Edited by Mystere, 27 October 2014 - 09:22 AM.

[Alexander MacTaggart]

KraftySOT, on 27 October 2014 - 09:18 AM, said:

Why...would anyone....listen to you. Not just us, but...PGI? They have someone they pay a salary too, who is the lead designer, who thinks about these things.

"I would love to spend money on your service but you pricing is just not reasonable so I haven't."

"Why would I listen to you? You haven't spent any money on my service!"