724 replies to this topic

[SpeedingBus]

LordKnightFandragon, on 25 October 2014 - 03:29 PM, said:

The new reward system seems very hit and miss. Some guys post 700dmg games, 2 kills, assists, component kills, this that, maybe 100K, next guy, similar results 78K, next, similar, 214K, your game...500K+? Dear god.......

But really why the vast differences in variation now?

Because your not playing PGIs new way in those battles regardless if it makes sense or not... people are bringing tag just to farm free c-bills forget whether it helps your team or not.

Edited by SpeedingBus, 25 October 2014 - 03:34 PM.

[Assiah]

Mcgral18, on 25 October 2014 - 03:28 PM, said:

So, to bring it to the point where a newbie can make 200k per match, will the veterans be able to make 1 mil per match?

if they are running premium time, a hero mech, and did very very VERY well that match, I don't see why not. I mean lets face it, there is plenty to spend your money on, from new mechs, to equipment, to modules. But I would say that being able to make 1 mil on a match would be the exception, not the rule, it would be more likely you could earn 400k on a match.

[Alexander MacTaggart]

Mcgral18, on 25 October 2014 - 03:28 PM, said:

So, to bring it to the point where a newbie can make 200k per match, will the veterans be able to make 1 mil per match?

If the spread right now is 50k to 400k, then changing it something more like 100k to 500k seems reasonable.

Not sure where you're going with the 1 million hyperbole. The problem is not with the top end, the problem is with the bottom end.

[OznerpaG]

i think the basic problem is that PGI listed this massive list of new actions and their CB/XP earnings in the patch notes, but when you start reading through them your eyes start glossing over and you stop reading and start skimming and you end up missing the point of how to make a decent income in MWO. that's even if you read the patch notes, and somehow i bet most if not near everyone didn't

there was likely a basic point PGI was trying to get across in how people should (now) play the game in order to make a proper income, but they never communicated it and i'l get a headache trying to figure it out so i won't. i play MWO to kill mechs, not make a flow chart on how to make 17 more CB per 18sec timeframe if i'm within 16.27m of a BJ-1X with less than 86% armour as long as i'm not going over 79.6kph. that kind of crap sucks the fun out of it, and fortunately for me i have over 4000 games under my belt so really i don't have to care - a bad game for me is an average or good game for a new player so i'l still plug away and make a decent income

the new player however needs to know how to play MWO in a way where they can make a good enough income where they'l keep playing, and unfortunately it seems even the vets don't know what the 'magic formula' is. it's almost like we have to go through specific hoops to make cash now - TAG everything, NARC everything, do a back flip while unloading an AC2 shell on the 3rd finger of a golden Atlas. wa?

we need an easy to comprehend very basic explanation of the what and why's of the new income system so people can know what they are supposed to be doing out there. PGI seems to have created this system with something in mind, but we can't read their minds and until someone takes the time to 'crack their code' and get the message out to the people who need it i think almost everybody is going to be very confused and/or get very frustrated

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

The main problem is not the top end players who have just about everything. It is the new guys who do not have enough to be competitive yet.

If we keep cutting the legs out from under them just to keep us on top. Soon there will be none. And then there will be no game either. No new guys spending money and the leets leave from the same people, same game every day.

There need to be enough Cbill earnings on the low side to keep bringing in new meat.

[Mr Beefy]

Alexander MacTaggart, on 25 October 2014 - 03:42 PM, said:

If the spread right now is 50k to 400k, then changing it something more like 100k to 500k seems reasonable.

Not sure where you're going with the 1 million hyperbole. The problem is not with the top end, the problem is with the bottom end.

But the issue would be no top end increase.... and the guys that play really well would not accept it. By increasing both is not a big deal, It will do more good than harm, and it is not counterproductive nor will it create toxic game play style, It will heal it and make it become the 20% instead of the 80% we see right now.

[Livewyr]

I am doing just fine economy-wise. If I do poorly, I get paid poorly. If I do well, I get paid well.

It is almost as if it is a merit based economy.

If you are having a terrible time accumulating Cbills, feel free to get premium and a hero mech, otherwise crank out the merit.


(If they do increase the base pay for some reason, I will laugh...and enjoy making *still* more, and I do not use TAG/Narc. The economy is fine, if you put the effort in.)

[Mr Beefy]

JagdFlanker, on 25 October 2014 - 03:48 PM, said:

i think the basic problem is that PGI listed this massive list of new actions and their CB/XP earnings in the patch notes, but when you start reading through them your eyes start glossing over and you stop reading and start skimming and you end up missing the point of how to make a decent income in MWO. that's even if you read the patch notes, and somehow i bet most if not near everyone didn't

there was likely a basic point PGI was trying to get across in how people should (now) play the game in order to make a proper income, but they never communicated it and i'l get a headache trying to figure it out so i won't. i play MWO to kill mechs, not make a flow chart on how to make 17 more CB per 18sec timeframe if i'm within 16.27m of a BJ-1X with less than 86% armour as long as i'm not going over 79.6kph. that kind of crap sucks the fun out of it, and fortunately for me i have over 4000 games under my belt so really i don't have to care - a bad game for me is an average or good game for a new player so i'l still plug away and make a decent income

the new player however needs to know how to play MWO in a way where they can make a good enough income where they'l keep playing, and unfortunately it seems even the vets don't know what the 'magic formula' is. it's almost like we have to go through specific hoops to make cash now - TAG everything, NARC everything, do a back flip while unloading an AC2 shell on the 3rd finger of a golden Atlas. wa?

we need an easy to comprehend very basic explanation of the what and why's of the new income system so people can know what they are supposed to be doing out there. PGI seems to have created this system with something in mind, but we can't read their minds and until someone takes the time to 'crack their code' and get the message out to the people who need it i think almost everybody is going to be very confused and/or get very frustrated

Until it is raised to 30-50% of earnings now on both ends..... proper income is not the word that many would use to describe it.

Livewyr, on 25 October 2014 - 03:49 PM, said:

I am doing just fine economy-wise. If I do poorly, I get paid poorly. If I do well, I get paid well.

It is almost as if it is a merit based economy.

If you are having a terrible time accumulating Cbills, feel free to get premium and a hero mech, otherwise crank out the merit.


(If they do increase the base pay for some reason, I will laugh...and enjoy making *still* more, and I do not use TAG/Narc. The economy is fine, if you put the effort in.)

We are happy that you are fine with the income......moving back to the point of the topic.

[Alexander MacTaggart]

Livewyr, on 25 October 2014 - 03:49 PM, said:

I am doing just fine economy-wise. If I do poorly, I get paid poorly. If I do well, I get paid well.

It is almost as if it is a merit based economy.

If you are having a terrible time accumulating Cbills, feel free to get premium and a hero mech, otherwise crank out the merit.


(If they do increase the base pay for some reason, I will laugh...and enjoy making *still* more, and I do not use TAG/Narc. The economy is fine, if you put the effort in.)

When will people learn that "I am doing fine, you just need to get better" is a zero-substance non-reply?

[KharnZor]

Mr Beefy, on 25 October 2014 - 03:53 PM, said:

We are happy that you are fine with the income......moving back to the point of the topic.

You are asking the wrong person to stay on topic. never happen.

Just give up and come to the dark side Beefy. Put on a wide brimmed hat and pick up your plow and farm the blue buggery out of it.

[Livewyr]

Alexander MacTaggart, on 25 October 2014 - 03:56 PM, said:

When will people learn that "I am doing fine, you just need to get better" is a zero-substance non-reply?

Around the same time people learn that just because they are doing poorly does not mean the game needs to cater to them. If the problem were systemic, everyone would be having issues of some sort...as it is there are a select few that are underperforming. (Which coincides with being a poor asset to the team.)

[Livewyr]

True systemic problem: ECM, a mechanical wall on a class of weapon system that requires extra equipment to let it function at all.

Personal problem: Not gaining the same rewards as everyone else in a merit based economy.


This is just sticker shock at people no longer getting bank for dragging a laser across a mech that is about to be killed, who was dragging a laser across another mech that had critical damage and getting "savior" kills.

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

Livewyr, on 25 October 2014 - 04:05 PM, said:

Around the same time people learn that just because they are doing poorly does not mean the game needs to cater to them. If the problem were systemic, everyone would be having issues of some sort...as it is there are a select few that are underperforming. (Which coincides with being a poor asset to the team.)

I am doing just fine. But most of the rest of the guys in that match got nothing. And won't be able to get anything for a long time because they do not have the funds to get everything needed to be competitive without grinding for (let's be very realistic cause you have seen them) over a year or spend a potload of money in this game. Which after getting reamed by us good earners with no real reward for any effort on their part is not something they are likely to do.

Edited by Bartholomew bartholomew, 25 October 2014 - 04:16 PM.

[Alexander MacTaggart]

Livewyr, on 25 October 2014 - 04:05 PM, said:

Around the same time people learn that just because they are doing poorly does not mean the game needs to cater to them. If the problem were systemic, everyone would be having issues of some sort...as it is there are a select few that are underperforming. (Which coincides with being a poor asset to the team.)

It's not a 'merit based economy' it's a freaking video game.

[Livewyr]

Bartholomew bartholomew, on 25 October 2014 - 04:12 PM, said:

I am doing just fine. But most of the rest of the guys in that match got nothing. And won't be able to get anything for a long time because they do not have the funds to get everything needed to be competitive without grinding for (let's be very realistic cause you have seen them) over a year or spend a potload of money in this game. Which after getting reamed by us good earners with no real reward for any effort is not something they are likely to do.

A: Those new players will not have seen the difference. (As I said, this is sticker shock)
B: Trial mechs are no longer your SHS stock piles of garbage...they are all useful, some of them- very useful.
C: If they are in a game with "good earners" they were likely put there with Elo...which is another issue entirely. (Elo starting out mid-grade is a poor decision on PGI's part.)
D: If someone does not want to spend as much time grinding cbills, they can get premium... that IS the point of premium, taking what is a slower process... and making it faster. It works for the underperforming too.

Alexander MacTaggart, on 25 October 2014 - 04:17 PM, said:

It's not a 'merit based economy' it's a freaking video game with a merit based economy.

FTFY. (There is an economy within the video game...and it happens to be a genuine merit based economy now.)

And it does not specifically cater to heavies and assaults anymore, to boot.

[Alexander MacTaggart]

Livewyr, on 25 October 2014 - 04:19 PM, said:

D: If someone does not want to spend as much time grinding cbills, they can get premium... that IS the point of premium, taking what is a slower process... and making it faster. It works for the underperforming too.

Taken to its logical conclusion, maybe we should just give people 10k per match and have premium time be a 2,000% increase. After all, if they wanted to make more money they can buy premium, right?

The point you are missing is that 'rewards 2.0', which was supposed to be an earnings increase, has instead lowered earnings for a lot of people. We are not saying 'give us more free money!' We are actually saying 'Don't give us LESS money than we were making'.

Then again this seems to be a common tactic in 'F2P' games, reducing income while hiding it in the facade of an increase.

[Mr Beefy]

Mcgral18, on 25 October 2014 - 03:28 PM, said:

So, to bring it to the point where a newbie can make 200k per match, will the veterans be able to make 1 mil per match?

I would say if that min, 150,000 a match for a match not played well, - 650,000 to a match that is played well would be a very good start. This is of course with out PT or Hero/champion Mechs bonus. Keep the XP around 800 min range not well played - 2000 for well played before PT, hero/champion bonus and avg, falling between those numbers would be reasonable.

Adding main objectives (primary and secondary ones) into game modes soon to be brought out and the ones we have of around 75-100k extra for taking the base or a defense of a base attack with 400-600xp on top of the normal match earnings would fix some of the players outlook on what they should be trying to accomplish in a given match mode they drop in. It would solve many problems with players wanting to tackle the objectives, instead of sending us out into a death ball and just kill'em all style of play we have 80% of matches now. Would this be such a bad thing for all to see in game for our performance?

Would this make us rage or complain of a roll back to PGI? No, I don't think it will cause even one problem.

Would this make new players want to come into the game, stick around and be able to have 10-15 of the many mechs within a reasonable amount of grind time, say 4 months, 3-5 hours a day, maybe 5 days a week to get them? I believe it very well would, and this will bring PGI money, mech bays are needed, players veteran and new alike will want to spend money because they don't feel like they are getting it hit both ways, and from the bottom. Reasonably LONG grind for all, still a grind for Veterans, and still a grind for players that choose to buy PT and hero mechs, Just a easier grind. This will get PGI more sales, not what we have now.

Please send me my Gold mech/ the Storm crow, It will be acceptable payment in full for my service's and help here Russ, no PT needed ;-)

[Livewyr]

Alexander MacTaggart, on 25 October 2014 - 04:23 PM, said:

Taken to its logical conclusion, maybe we should just give people 10k per match and have premium time be a 2,000% increase. After all, if they wanted to make more money they can buy premium, right?

That would be obtuse. 50% is much more reasonable... and it is here.

Alexander MacTaggart, on 25 October 2014 - 04:23 PM, said:

The point you are missing is that 'rewards 2.0', which was supposed to be an earnings increase, has instead lowered earnings for a lot of people. We are not saying 'give us more free money!' We are actually saying 'Don't give us LESS money than we were making'.

The previous system was flawed. When you could get rewards just for happening to get a savior kill (which was a LOT of reward) for accidentally dragging a laser across a mech who just happened to be dragging a laser over a mech that had critical damage...

It was getting cbills, without actually earning them. (rewarding someone for pretty much existing)

Now that that is no longer the case, they are having "sticker shock."

Alexander MacTaggart, on 25 October 2014 - 04:23 PM, said:

Then again this seems to be a common tactic in 'F2P' games, reducing income while hiding it in the facade of an increase.

I am making more Cbills than I was before...because the earning potential increased.

It WAS roughly capped at getting assists (particularly accidentally or worse: purposely timed) "Savior" kills (assists) which inflated everyones' income. The only way to get higher was doing more damage...and that was the realm of assaults and heavies.

[Alexander MacTaggart]

Livewyr, on 25 October 2014 - 04:31 PM, said:

I am making more Cbills than I was before...because the earning potential increased.

Good for you. Now once they increase the 'floor' on earnings we'll have made some progress.

[Mr Beefy]

KharnZor, on 25 October 2014 - 03:59 PM, said:

You are asking the wrong person to stay on topic. never happen.

Just give up and come to the dark side Beefy. Put on a wide brimmed hat and pick up your plow and farm the blue buggery out of it.

Never! I don't want a dark side, for us as Veteran players, New players for sure and for PGI, the guys working on bringing us their and our game we all have waited for and support!