724 replies to this topic

[Mr Beefy]

Bartholomew bartholomew, on 25 October 2014 - 08:18 PM, said:

I think most of the people who do not want a buff for the new guys to get up to par are just those afraid that will leave them with nobody to have an edge on..

yes... and the sky will fall down on us, bringing the end of days... and it will hurt the stability of the economy, everything will crash over night....

[Mcgral18]

Bartholomew bartholomew, on 25 October 2014 - 08:18 PM, said:

I think most of the people who do not want a buff for the new guys to get up to par are just those afraid that will leave them with nobody to have an edge on..

Well, you keep saying you're making less than before.

It seems most people are making more, with the terribad matches being terribad.


I won't complain for more Cbills, but it's not exactly required. I'm making around 50k more per match.

[Mystere]

Assiah, on 25 October 2014 - 08:25 PM, said:

I'll say it again, convincing these players is pointless, they do not dictate the development of this game, they just play it. If you want to convince someone, try any avenue you have to contact the devs and explain your concerns, and do so politely.

And which is why 3PV was added to the game. <runs for the hills>

Edited by Mystere, 25 October 2014 - 08:29 PM.

[Assiah]

Mystere, on 25 October 2014 - 08:29 PM, said:

And which is why 3PV was added to the game. <runs for the hills>

No it was added because allegedly Russ's son (who is under the age of 10 if I recall) was not able to figure out how to pilot a mech, and that was all the convincing russ needed to push for its inclusion into the game, despite PGI saying they would never add it, despite countless well thought out arguments as to how it can be game breaking, and despite countless protests and polls showing that the majority did not want it in the game.

Seriously if you are going to attempt to derail because you are losing an argument, at least do so by checking your facts first.

[Mr Beefy]

Assiah, on 25 October 2014 - 08:25 PM, said:

Well first lets be clear, its not just for the new guys, progression for everybody in this game is slow, its especially slow for free players and even worse for new free players. But I don't disagree with your point, many of the opponents of this have always taken the elitist side of "Well I'm doing fine, you just need to step it up." And that is the position they had when the earnings got nerfed in beta, and its the position they have now.

I'll say it again, convincing these players is pointless, they do not dictate the development of this game, they just play it. If you want to convince someone, try any avenue you have to contact the devs and explain your concerns, and do so politely.

Once again, I agree with you 100% on this... but I have chosen to put my feed back in the official spot they gave us to put it in. I also have chosen to take my time to try and make a valid argument on any thread started by others to give real reason as to why I feel the way I do about this, and stance I have on it.

I think emailing them, tweeting,(lol... I have no tweet account, or even a face book one) is also just another way to bog down the support ticket system with more stuff. They have a lot on their plates to work on now as it is. Not that it is a bad Idea, I just think it would over burden the system, and could be just as destructive as some of the guys who dropped out of matches in protest back when MM got changed, just because they didn't like the match. I understand their argument for wanting choice, however their form of protest or actions kinda F up the 11 players on their given team dropped with and pulling off a win. I almost get the feeling these are the types of players that are making such a big stink about the earnings being fine... and I could be wrong. Just seams like the same mindset that one would have, they go hand in hand more times than not.

[Ghogiel]

Regardless of old or new rewards system, if you want cbils mounting up with any sort of speed beyond abysmally slow, you need a hero AND premium. And not just a hero, but an invasion TBR or something good.

edit: and for new system, you need to exploit it and farm the rewards, ie "play well"

Edited by Ghogiel, 25 October 2014 - 08:42 PM.

[Mr Beefy]

Mystere, on 25 October 2014 - 08:29 PM, said:

And which is why 3PV was added to the game. <runs for the hills>

HMMMMM I See...moving on and back to the point

[Assiah]

Mr Beefy, on 25 October 2014 - 08:35 PM, said:

Once again, I agree with you 100% on this... but I have chosen to put my feed back in the official spot they gave us to put it in. I also have chosen to take my time to try and make a valid argument on any thread started by others to give real reason as to why I feel the way I do about this, and stance I have on it.

I think emailing them, tweeting,(lol... I have no tweet account, or even a face book one) is also just another way to bog down the support ticket system with more stuff. They have a lot on their plates to work on now as it is. Not that it is a bad Idea, I just think it would over burden the system, and could be just as destructive as some of the guys who dropped out of matches in protest back when MM got changed, just because they didn't like the match. I understand their argument for wanting choice, however their form of protest or actions kinda F up the 11 players on their given team dropped with and pulling off a win. I almost get the feeling these are the types of players that are making such a big stink about the earnings being fine... and I could be wrong. Just seams like the same mindset that one would have, they go hand in hand more times than not.

I'm not advocating bogging down the ticket system, nor am I advocating a protest of any kind. I'm simply advocating that as a consumer you should inform PGI as a business of your concerns in their product. If you choose to put it in the forums that is fine, if someone else chooses to email on of the devs directly that is also fine. Also I dare you to find me someone who makes consumer products that doesn't want to hear well thought out and politely written feed back on their product, and I'll show you someone who will be out of business in five years. Which is say that the devs should welcome feedback and will make time for it in their day.

Edited by Assiah, 25 October 2014 - 08:51 PM.

[KrazedOmega]

Mcgral18, on 25 October 2014 - 07:59 PM, said:

I don't see a single team based award in that menu...so you didn't stick with the team, costing you a couple dozen thousand.

So killing almost half of the enemy team, making It easier for the rest of my team to win should be punished because I wasn't standing in the deathball waiting for a clear shot that isn't into the back of a teammate?

There's been many times where I've been 400 - 800m away from teammates, usually on an elevated position, getting free shots at mechs that are focused on other team members. If I'm getting 4 kills, 8 assists and 700+ damage from that why should that count as less effort and game play than standing with the main group? And I don't want to hear "This is a team game, you should be with your teammates." Flanking and gaining an optimal firing position to protect the team and discourage enemy movement is just as much team play than standing in the group firing at the same mech.

I'm playing the same way I was before the changes and I'm getting almost half the cbills and xp I was before. This is with 3+ kills, 6+ assists, 600+ damage rounds. The original rewards system didn't need to be totally changed, just have the additional rewards added for the other roles. I shouldn't be forced into playing the game a certain way just to earn the same rewards I was before.

[Mr Beefy]

Ghogiel, on 25 October 2014 - 08:35 PM, said:

Regardless of old or new rewards system, if you want cbils mounting up with any sort of speed beyond abysmally slow, you need a hero AND premium. And not just a hero, but an invasion TBR or something good.

I do just fine in my Ember and BJ- Arrow..... and am seriously considering passing on the timber. I have always loved it since being a kid playing BT, but when I got the chance to play it on the test server, it just didn't click with me. I think that this is the point of the current problem many have, veteran and new alike.

ALL players need to be able to dabble in many different mechs if they have hope in finding the ones they can really get good in. Some mechs just do not fit some players, and they have a very hard time finding the ones that do. Trial mechs are great and all to find out if you think you will like some, but until you can re-equip them to your liking, you really just can not make a informed choice on what to buy. This is a problem only because current earnings are so low, the grind is extremely painful, and if and when you drop those 80+ hours of time for a given chassis, get it loaded out the way you think you want it, well if it turns out you can't play well with it, or its just not fun for you to roll in.....

Sell it back for at 1/3 loss, but wait, it gets worse... all the time you grinded out for the C-bills to put DHS, Endero, armor, artimus, they are all down the drain.... that's over 2 million c-bills right there....bye bye. That is 2-8 hours of grind depending on your skill level right there, gone down the tubes. Lets not even get into the fact that you just lost 1/3 of your C-bills selling off the mech's. WOW! I think that says it all and sums it up right there.... hit from every which way with the very painful GRIND... and the no reach around on the back end just adds topping to the cake guys. (which might explain why our cup cakes had a bite already out of them)

This is a system that hits Veteran Pilots, but REALLY hits a new player coming in, and the question is this, Is this the F2P Model PGI want to sell to the new player and the experience they want to them to feel after the 25th game they play, and every game they play after, even if they buy PT and a hero mech.... they still will feel it BIG TIME.

Edited by Mr Beefy, 25 October 2014 - 09:06 PM.

[Mr Beefy]

KrazedOmega, on 25 October 2014 - 08:45 PM, said:

So killing almost half of the enemy team, making It easier for the rest of my team to win should be punished because I wasn't standing in the deathball waiting for a clear shot that isn't into the back of a teammate?

There's been many times where I've been 400 - 800m away from teammates, usually on an elevated position, getting free shots at mechs that are focused on other team members. If I'm getting 4 kills, 8 assists and 700+ damage from that why should that count as less effort and game play than standing with the main group? And I don't want to hear "This is a team game, you should be with your teammates." Flanking and gaining an optimal firing position to protect the team and discourage enemy movement is just as much team play than standing in the group firing at the same mech.

I'm playing the same way I was before the changes and I'm getting almost half the cbills and xp I was before. This is with 3+ kills, 6+ assists, 600+ damage rounds. The original rewards system didn't need to be totally changed, just have the additional rewards added for the other roles. I shouldn't be forced into playing the game a certain way just to earn the same rewards I was before.

Sir, I would have to say that game you just posted is a fine example of helping your team win, as long as it wasn't in the last event we had, and you was killing the last mech on the enemy side in a base assault where you team was 30 seconds away from getting 20 points on instead of only 10. +1 also if you didn't chase down the last light on the enemy team for 2 minutes and kill him while your team was asking you nicely not to do it, we have the primary objective in the bag. +1 if you didn't proceed to type "LOL" in chat after you killed the said light, and explained to us you need the C-bills and XP for things you want, and it doesn't pay to take the base.

Please continue to do what you do if you didn't fit the bill above, and don't let the "L2P" or leave crowd change you. We are all hoping PGI takes notice and makes the required change to weed these guys out, or heard them like the sheep they are to do the right thing, even when it doesn't pay out in C-bills as well. Ya Know, real team play, because even though you might lose the battle by trying to take the primary objective, it is the reason you play, ya know, fun, immersion and stuff like that.

[Angel of Annihilation]

First. This game does not have an economy so gaining more C-bills per match doesn't break a damn thing in that regard or really have any effect what-so-ever on anything other than how fast people can access new mech and outfit them.

That being the case I really don't have a fricken clue why Russ seems so gawdamn hell bent on reducing rewards to the point the game grind is downright painful.

Second, as someone who have spent their entire professional career in sales and marketing I can understand why they want to slow down the pace of how fast you earn things and that is simply so people don't flash consume the content then quit. However, right now the game has around 2 billion C-bills worth of content available to it currently and each and every month they add new mechs for people to buy. Additionally they are going to require C-bill investment to participate in CW which will further dilute the amount of available C-bills the average player will have.

The point here is even if they increased rewards, the vast majority of players would take at least 2-3 years minimum to go through all the content available right now, let alone what will be coming in the future.

Third, grinding is not fun and when a game starts not being fun, people leave and if they leave due to the grind, it doesn't matter squat what sort of pace you intended the game to have. Additionally, low rewards, especially on a loss just breed frustration and anger like a swamp breeds mosquitoes. When I see a reward of 40-50k after I have invested a quarter hour of my limited time, all I want to do is rage at the ineptitude of my team because 40-50k is a total waste of time. In fact one of the things that kept me going in MWO was the fact it was such a low stress game. I Win....great I get to make 200-250k woot and when I lose...I make 120-150k....no biggy. I mean I would rather win but I am not going to get upset and go raging when I still make 75% of a wins reward in a lost match. This is what made the game low drag and relaxing.

Forth, why the hell is anyone defending the reduction of rewards? Are you masochists or something? Your not going to tell me that you wouldn't rather get a new mech in a weeks time rather than a months time, I just don't believe that. That being the case, seriously, get a clue. Increased rewards only do one thing for this game....IMPROVE IT. When you increase rewards, the game becomes less stressful and more fun. You can earn new mechs quickly so when you get a bit bored, no worries, just buy a new mech and outfit it. You lose a match...oh well...150k isn't bad so not going to stress it. Don't have alot of time to invest in the game....no worries, you make enough to get what you want without turning the game into a job. These are all good things.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 25 October 2014 - 09:22 PM.

[FupDup]

Viktor Drake, on 25 October 2014 - 09:00 PM, said:

--
That being the case I really don't have a fricken clue why Russ seems so gawdamn hell bent on reducing rewards to the point the game grind is downright painful.
--

It's totally for all dat "endgame content" module hoarding, brah.


Nevermind the fact that increasing a Small Laser's range by 10 meters is apparently considered to be the "endgame" of MWO, which is completely retárded.

Edited by FupDup, 25 October 2014 - 09:07 PM.

[Mr Beefy]

Viktor Drake, on 25 October 2014 - 09:00 PM, said:

First. This game does not have an economy so gaining more C-bills per match doesn't break a damn thing in that regard or really have any effect what-so-ever on anything other than how fast people can access new mech and outfit them.

That being the case I really don't have a fricken clue why Russ seems so gawdamn hell bent on reducing rewards to the point the game grind is downright painful.

Second, as someone who have spent their entire professional career in sales and marketing I can understand why they want to slow down the pace of how fast you earn things and that is simply so people don't flash consume the content then quit. However, right now the game has around 2 billion C-bills worth of content available to it currently and each and every month they add new mechs for people to buy. Additionally they are going to require C-bill investment to participate in CW which will further dilute the amount of available C-bills the average player will have.

The point here is even if they increased rewards, the vast majority of players would take at least 2-3 years minimum to go through all the content available right now, let alone what will be coming in the future.

Third, grinding is not fun and when a game starts not being fun, people leave and if they leave due to the grind, it doesn't matter squat what sort of pace you intended the game to have. Additionally, low rewards, especially on a loss just breed frustration and anger like a swap breeds mosquitoes. When I see a reward of 40-50k after I have invested a quarter hour of my limited time, all I want to do is rage at the ineptitude of my team because 40-50k is a total waste of time. In fact one of the things that kept me going in MWO was the fact it was such a low stress game. I Win....great I get to make 200-250k woot and when I lose...I make 120-150k....no biggy. I mean I would rather win but I am not going to get upset and go raging when I still make 75% of a wins reward in a lost match. This is what made the game low drag and relaxing.

Forth, why the hell is anyone defending the reduction of rewards? Are you masochists or something? Your not going to tell me that you wouldn't rather get a new mech in a weeks time rather than a months time, I just don't believe that. That being the case, seriously, get a clue. Increased rewards only do one thing for this game....IMPROVE IT. When you increase rewards, the game becomes less stressful and more fun. You can earn new mechs quickly so when you get a bit bored, no worries, just buy a new mech and outfit it. You lose a match...oh well...150k isn't bad so not going to stress it. Don't have alot of time to invest in the game....no worries, you make enough to get what you want without turning the game into a job. These are all good things.

You sir may just be onto something good here.....

FupDup, on 25 October 2014 - 09:06 PM, said:

It's totally for all dat "endgame content" module hoarding, brah.


Nevermind the fact that increasing a Small Laser's range by 10 meters is apparently considered to be the "endgame" of MWO, which is completely retárded.

Please do not forget the way if first came into effect..... with a bit of added heat to boot. I could live with the small range perk, but the heat had to go, and thankfully they removed it.

Edited by Mr Beefy, 25 October 2014 - 09:13 PM.

[NeoRocket]

Months ago I could bring an LRM boat and make good c bills. I could brawl and make c bills. I could snipe and make good c bills. I didn't figure out how to game the earning system I just played the effin game. I played to win and to help my team win. Every month I have to relearn the game. That was not fun. Everty month things I bought with real money no longer make as much damage or heat more or have less speed or what have you and I would have to re outfit my mech or rebalance or relearn how to play a mech or put a completely new weapon loadout due to the game NOT being the same game every month or sometime every few weeks. But through it all I could still earn decent c bills to DO all the FRUSTRATING re engineering of my mechs. Now since the c bill nerf I just can't seem to earn c bills and am told I need to "learn to game the c bill earning system"? How about I go find another game to play or two and wait for this version to implode? Remeber this is the 5th or 6th iteration and all the last iterations of FPS tactical Mech Warrior play have been on cd or dvd and installed and then very few changes so people learned the game over years and had a lot of fun doing so and each version lasted literally years and years. In a nutshell I am damnnnn tired of playing a mech game that changes every few weeks and I have to relearn weekly. I wanna just PLAY. A game I KNOW. The SAME GAME I knew LAST WEEK or even SIX MONTHS AGO. Now I can't even earn c bills by just playing and over the last year I have spent HUNDREDS of dollars in real money. I have never spent that much on a game in a year and probably never will again. I have met both good players and good people in this game MWO. This c bill nerf is pretty much the last straw for me. Man up? Don't need to I am a man and have been a man for decades and have grown children that were raised well because I am a man and was with a good woman. So I don't need any effin game to prove to myself I am a man. I am here for fun and that's it. Part of the fun comes from a challenge. But constantly changing the structural gameplay is not "challenging" it is only frustrating. And that my friends... Is not fun.

[Angel of Annihilation]

FupDup, on 25 October 2014 - 09:06 PM, said:

It's totally for all dat "endgame content" module hoarding, brah.


Nevermind the fact that increasing a Small Laser's range by 10 meters is apparently considered to be the "endgame" of MWO, which is completely retárded.

Yeah an item that should just be consider part of fully outfitting every mech you own being end game content is kind of ridiculous. What is even more ridiculous is that they are so expensive that most people just by one of each one they need and then constantly go through the hassle of swapping them between mechs.

Of course this goes back to the crappy rewards we are getting. By the end of Dec, I will have 60 mechs each and every one of them needing a set of modules. I have determined that on average if I wanted to equip every one of those mechs with its own unique set of module which lets face it is how it should be, not this swapping crap, I would have to come up with roughly 15 million C-bills per mech or roughly 900 million C-bills just for modules. I am suppose to do that exactly how again? What? Did you say I am suppose to do it on the roughly 100-125k C-bills I earn per match on average now? Yeah right got to give you a big fat LOL on that one especially when I am going to need a couple hundred million just for the Warhawk, Mad Dog and King Crab variants I am going to want/need here in the next few month.

Honestly, when I think about needing to try to grind out on 100-125k per match, roughly at a minimum 150 million C-biils in less than 2 months, I almost want to cry.

[Budor]

While the grind is still horrible average earnings seem to be better unless you are playing poorly everytime you drop.

[Mr Beefy]

Budor, on 25 October 2014 - 09:42 PM, said:

While the grind is still horrible average earnings seem to be better unless you are playing poorly everytime you drop.

Looking at your first statement here.... and then after reading the hard numbers and than seeing Viktor do some numbers on the module system cost.... and he is very right about it shouldn't be that way. Once you unlock a module you should have access to it for all your mechs, or charge the very same or around the same as they do for clan Targeting computers for each one. We have heard we will be on a timer to drop into a given game to defend or attack a planet. We also have been told that we will be taking four mechs each player... These mechs will need modules, and players that do not have them to bring are gonna be hurting to a degree, some will be really hurting.

I have played group drops with many friends in the Lance challenges and it becomes really clear how many players that are Veteran here in the player base that are playing the switch the module out game.....lets not forget switch the cockpit Items out game either.....it takes time to reconfigure them and it slows down the amount of drops you get in a given event. How will CW be any better with the way things are now? It seems like everything is stacked against even Veteran players, how will new players hang in for this BIG ground breaking event core pillar we have all been waiting for? Why would they want to.... I can see it now, factions that can not get a 12 man to the planet fast enough, we have been told pugs will be picked up from solo to fill the team out, right? I can just see the rage against any players that can not live up to the teams expectations... It will not be pretty for some new players and even some veterans alike will feel the rage.

Edited by Mr Beefy, 25 October 2014 - 10:14 PM.

[CtrlAltWheee]

They need to rethink their business model. The nice thing if we got more c-bills is we'd all be buying more mechbays.

For us who buy the mech bundles/packs, the camo pattern model is strange. You pay a lot for permanent unlock, but of my three mechs I can only put that camo on 2 of them. And I'd have to switch it on and off like 10 times to get my money's worth over a single use pattern

What they want is more *good* uses of mc. Example: custom hangars, custom decals, etc. Then I think they'd feel better raising c-bill earnings. The game has changed so much since release (vastly increased number of mechs, introduction of c-bill sink modules) and it's time for overhaul.

[Mr Beefy]

CtrlAltWheee, on 25 October 2014 - 10:35 PM, said:

They need to rethink their business model. The nice thing if we got more c-bills is we'd all be buying more mechbays.

For us who buy the mech bundles/packs, the camo pattern model is strange. You pay a lot for permanent unlock, but of my three mechs I can only put that camo on 2 of them. And I'd have to switch it on and off like 10 times to get my money's worth over a single use pattern

What they want is more *good* uses of mc. Example: custom hangars, custom decals, etc. Then I think they'd feel better raising c-bill earnings. The game has changed so much since release (vastly increased number of mechs, introduction of c-bill sink modules) and it's time for overhaul.

I have a really hard time with the fact that I purchased two camo patterns that I have really liked when they was 50% off, 1300 mc with out knowing that they only unlock on on chassis, not all in your inventory like color unlocks. I really would of never bought them if I would of know this, even at 50% off the normal price....is that price normal? Oh well it is what it is, I am thankful for the 50% off sale on them, but IMO, they should be that normally, and should also unlock for every mech you own, Minus hero mechs.... guess I could live with that. I ended up putting the pattern on the wrong chassis not knowing they were unlocked only to that chassis. Really just leaves a dirty feeling after spending the money on them....I want to blow money, but the painful grind we have makes me feel bad for supporting such an.... seemly unfriendly painful grind that is in place right now. I am a die hard BT fan, and gamer.... How will new players take this kinda F2P model as it stands?