373 replies to this topic

[Sandtiger]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 November 2014 - 07:50 AM, said:

The Grasshopper isn't released yet... Just sayin.

Sooooooon.....

[Averen]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 November 2014 - 06:53 AM, said:

But not an advantage that is restricted. If I wanted to use one I can buy one. So then it is not an unfair advantage. And Artillery has no place in a game of combat/warfare? Are you sure?

Come on, now you're just throwing around fallacy's.

Magical artillery out of nowhere without any strategical implications outside of the battlefield being purely determined by single players buying them via freely available virtual money unreliant on any battle situation does indeed not much place in a game of combat/warfare by realistic definitons.
You want artillery making sense in the scope of MWO? Go LRM.

As for fairnes: Everyone being able to buy them does not matter for the unequal distribution inside a match. Fairness inside a match is what we're talking about. Common sense.

Quote

Also PGI is the GM. As such, it's their game their rules. You would not get to dictate what is allowed on my Table and I cannot tell you how to run yours. Video games are NOT a Democracy.

I expected you to be intelligent enough to get the scale of a simple discussion without writing it down. Btw, having fun trying to be rude?

[Mystere]

Averen, on 07 November 2014 - 05:52 AM, said:

The player who buys an arty has an advantage over the one doesn't. And while all people can buy artillery, most won't. The game has a lot of these issues, mainly because of it's f2p-concept, but this one is to direct, unnecessary, and has no real place in the game.

If someone does not want to buy/use artillery, that is not my or anyone else's problem.

[Voivode]

I have to vehemently disagree with the anti-strike crowd. Previous to strikes (and previous to strikes being buffed to give them teeth) this game was a dull, boring sitzkrieg. My playstyle and mech builds are very movement dependent. I do best in highly mobile matches. Before strikes this game suffered from a serious lack of mobility. In my opinion, it still does, but at the very least arty and air strikes can be used to coax an entrenched enemy to move. That is necessary for this game.

If you are getting hit by strikes, stay mobile and make sure you are around 40 meters from your nearest friendly. Strikes are most useful against teams that stand shoulder to shoulder. If you are getting rained on by LRMS (off topic, I know, but this whine sounds so much like the "nerf lurms!" whine) look around you. There is either a spotter (ecm light perhaps) or a UAV above your head. It's amazing how many people won't just look up for the UAV or glance around every once in a while to see if there's a light or some red smoke.

Situational awareness and mobility are player skills that matter. Strikes are fine, they give this game something to use against camped fatties.

[InspectorG]

What victims of the 1/122857613498^46th chance Arty headshot think Arty does.




What Arty users think they do to fully armored Campers.

[Joseph Mallan]

Averen, on 07 November 2014 - 08:11 AM, said:

Come on, now you're just throwing around fallacy's.

Magical artillery out of nowhere without any strategical implications outside of the battlefield being purely determined by single players buying them via freely available virtual money unreliant on any battle situation does indeed not much place in a game of combat/warfare by realistic definitons.
You want artillery making sense in the scope of MWO? Go LRM.

As for fairnes: Everyone being able to buy them does not matter for the unequal distribution inside a match. Fairness inside a match is what we're talking about. Common sense.

Magical Artilery out of nowhere is exactly how it often works on TT. As your arty can be up to 12 maps away from the 2 maps you are playing on. Just as Magical and out of nowhere.

And as to fair. I know I will likely face arty in game, I choose to not bring it. and that sir is as fair as it needs to be. just as I COULD bring a Dire Wolf if I wanted to buy one, my choosing not to do so makes someone else having one fair. The option is there to HAVE. refusing to bring is in fact fair.

[Mister Blastman]

I would not be upset if they removed strikes from the game. I also would not be upset if they limited the maximum total on a given team was two. That means... only two 'mechs on a team could carry it.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mister Blastman, on 07 November 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

I would not be upset if they removed strikes from the game. I also would not be upset if they limited the maximum total on a given team was two. That means... only two 'mechs on a team could carry it.

I would also not be upset if they stayed in the game as they have little impact (literally and figuratively) on my Mech.

[Voivode]

Mister Blastman, on 07 November 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

I would not be upset if they removed strikes from the game. I also would not be upset if they limited the maximum total on a given team was two. That means... only two 'mechs on a team could carry it.

I would like a limit of one assault mech per team if this happens. Most teams are so movement averse already, taking away a method to force movement would be harmful to the gameplay. I mean, look at the light queue, it hovers so low as is. Skirmish and Assault are painful in light mechs because the primary attribute of light mechs is speed and that becomes completely moot if your teammates stand in a circle jerk the entire match. This game needs more movement, not less. The only thing removing strikes does is reward camping.

[Captain Stiffy]

PappySmurf, on 06 November 2014 - 08:11 AM, said:

Yes I agree PGI should get rid of Arties and Airstrikes and replace them with a mini nuke.We already have paper armored mechs that any twitch FPS crowd would love with 1 shot kills and instant gratification.Why not make MWO more Twitch friendly with mini nukes?

I'm all about it. An AOE blanket effect would be more effective and understandable.

[Hoax415]

I wouldn't mind it if they diversified what arty and airstrike do a lot more and I def wouldn't mind it if they put them on much longer team cooldowns but separate cooldowns though you could include a short global cooldown on both after one is used to prevent people from double stacking them.

My idea:
Airstrike would work as it does now with an increase to team cooldown.

Arty would take much longer to fall after smoke appears. But the aoe would be larger and it would be more shells falling over a longer period of time as well. It would have a BIG increase in team cooldown.

That makes Arty less about actually causing direct damage and much more about area denial and firing line disruption while it can still punish people who load up on just the biggest heaviest mechs or camp in static positions.

Or something. My complaints with arty/airstrike right now are that they act basically the same and that you can chainfire them way too often in 12v12's.

Something like no Arty for the first 4 minutes of a map and a 2 minute cooldown after every strike, resulting in only six max red smokes per match would be preferable imo to the current situation.

Edited by Hoax415, 07 November 2014 - 11:47 AM.

[Mystere]

Mister Blastman, on 07 November 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

I would not be upset if they removed strikes from the game. I also would not be upset if they limited the maximum total on a given team was two. That means... only two 'mechs on a team could carry it.

I would agree to that if we had actual barrages, as in having 30 seconds or more duration of constant hellish explosions.

[Mindwipe]

What about making the strikes work like UAV does. If you can destroy that smoke generator before the arty lands, no harm no foul and it enables even pugs to deal with it as you can just shoot it rather than deal with typing in a battle. Increases the risk of friendly fire but should be reasonable enough. Plus UAV costs the same, and most certainly can be shot down before it's really useful if the other team is watching for it so the cost to reward is already there.

That would at least make using Arty as direct damage a bit harder, but it would also take away some/most of it's ability to scatter mobs. I'd still rather a warning and map icon but a shootable target might be a compromise.

[Mister Blastman]

Losing 30% of your armor or more in several seconds sucks in a 50 ton 'mech, all due to a couple well place strikes. If people are so concerned about stagnant, stale gameplay, why not put a minimum range on strikes then?

i.e. if you're 200 meters or less from your targeted point, the strike won't execute because if your dangerous proximity to the strike area.

The problem I have with them isn't so much breaking up stale camping (I hate camping too and most that have seen me play know I don't do it) but them being used in an offensive manner. Too often do I see a team push in and simultaneously strike over and over again.

It gets old.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Air Strike? a Single fighter, or a flight of 4 fighters is called in and circles the area for 30s. During that time, any mechs caught in the area, a single fighter flies down and fires a single 15dmg Laser guided bomb at it...then leaves.....

A Warning pops in the cockpit: "Warning: Airstrike Inbound". Of course you cant avoid the shot, but you should leave so the other 3 dont nuke you.

Artillery? Idk what can be done there, without simply limiting who can even call it in...same really could go with airstrikes. limit it's call ins to Lance leaders, 1 time a match, either planes or guns, but not both and not everyone....

[Pale Jackal]

These would not be in the game if MWO wasn't "free to play."

Nerf them. They shouldn't be in the game in the first place, but if you want 0-ton 0-drawback damage it should be minimal.

[Sandtiger]

Pale Jackal, on 07 November 2014 - 11:50 PM, said:

These would not be in the game if MWO wasn't "free to play."

Nerf them. They shouldn't be in the game in the first place, but if you want 0-ton 0-drawback damage it should be minimal.

Not so, these should ABSOLUTELY be in the game. This is Mechwarrior online, which gets most of its ideas from Battletech correct? Please don't complain because you have not learned to mitigate them. Try and keep moving, don't cluster together with your lance mates, and keep a watch out for the pesky smoke that tell's you to RUN! FORREST, RUN!!!!

I think we should not only have air strikes, and artillery strikes. We should have Long Toms, and Heavy Gauss, and MUCH, MUCH, more of what is not in this game, that is in the battletech universe.

Me personally, I can' wait for four legged mechs *fingers crossed* I would spend a fortune on them. ~Grins

A FORTUNE!!!!!!! ^^^^^^

[ShadowWolf Kell]

Personally, I'd be happy if they added in AeroSpace Fighters and allowed people to do the bomb and strafe runs themselves. I'd singlehandedly kill all 12 enemy mechs every game.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Mystere, on 06 November 2014 - 09:59 AM, said:

20x20 may have the same damage potential, but not the kill potential. I like the latter. It's psychological effects are so obviously displayed here.

Kill potential is a BAD THING when oftentimes getting hit with one is completely unavoidable. It's too easy for a light to roll up and drop one behind you where you can't see the smoke and your teammates have no time to type up a warning. Even with VOIP the delay between seeing smoke and calling it out to the teammates in danger is high enough that they're going to get hit regardless, especially when they're piloting Assault mechs. An enormous amount damage on my mech is plenty enough to dissuade me from just standing there and taking the hit. The possibility of instant death from full health, from a weapon that weighs nothing, takes up just 1 consumable slot, requires little skill to use, and is oftentimes unavoidable is simply unacceptable.

[Pjwned]

Mystere, on 06 November 2014 - 09:59 AM, said:

20x20 may have the same damage potential, but not the kill potential. I like the latter. It's psychological effects are so obviously displayed here.

Yes, it traumatizes me greatly to see such a **** design as RNG instant kill cockpit shots.