134 replies to this topic

[SharpCookie]

I survived this match in one of the clan mechs, but barely at 41% (one side torso gone, the other side torso exposed and orange). I swept CMPL over 10 times across the non armored FS9 legs, watching them flash on the paper doll every time, but legs remained intact. My teammate was also shooting at the FS9 legs, but this dance went on for over 30 seconds. A real pain to hit.

[Khobai]

firestarter has needed a nerf for a long time. nothing too major just lower its max speed so other lights have a better chance to escape from the 8 spl death ray.

they should revise the speed cap on certain lights to 170/160/150/140 kph for 20/25/30/35 ton mechs respectively

they can do it simply by changing the max engine sizes:
35 tonners = 275
30 tonners = 250
25 tonners = 225
20 tonners = 190

certain lights like the raven and non-ecm spiders/commandos would be exempt from the changes though since that would nerf them.

Edited by Khobai, 02 December 2014 - 06:27 PM.

[Brody319]

Khobai, on 02 December 2014 - 06:21 PM, said:

firestarter has needed a nerf for a long time. nothing too major just lower its max speed so other lights have a chance to get away.

they should revise the speed cap on lights to 170/160/150/140 kph for 20/25/30/35 ton mechs respectively

I say we buff the speed so lights can feel true fear.

Edited by Brody319, 02 December 2014 - 06:22 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

I say we buff the speed so lights can feel true fear.

Except lights that arnt firestarters/jenners already feel true fear.

[TheGallows]

SharpCookie, on 02 December 2014 - 06:18 PM, said:

I survived this match in one of the clan mechs, but barely at 41% (one side torso gone, the other side torso exposed and orange). I swept CMPL over 10 times across the non armored FS9 legs, watching them flash on the paper doll every time, but legs remained intact. My teammate was also shooting at the FS9 legs, but this dance went on for over 30 seconds. A real pain to hit.

Yes, we desperately need to save the poor timberwolves from being abused by the firestarters. God forbid an obviously skilled pilot brought your mech to half health before dying.

[TheGallows]

Khobai, on 02 December 2014 - 06:21 PM, said:

firestarter has needed a nerf for a long time. nothing too major just lower its max speed so other lights have a better chance to escape from the 8 spl death ray.

they should revise the speed cap on certain lights to 170/160/150/140 kph for 20/25/30/35 ton mechs respectively

they can do it simply by changing the max engine sizes:
35 tonners = 275
30 tonners = 250
25 tonners = 225
20 tonners = 190

certain lights like the raven and non-ecm spiders/commandos would be exempt from the changes though since that would nerf them.

Protip: If your idea of "balance" involves actually nerfing a spider 5V, you might want to rethink it.

[Khobai]

Quote

Protip: If your idea of "balance" involves actually nerfing a spider 5V, you might want to rethink it.

My proposed speed cap for the 30 tonners, including the spider 5V, is 150. The spider 5V already caps out at 150 now. So it wouldnt get nerfed by it. Non-ecm spiders would still go 170 though, since I already mentioned they would be exempt.

The nerf primarily affects the firestarter/jenner, both of which deserve it. Those two mechs currently render every other light mech obsolete. Especially now that the ECM role can be filled by any weight class. Lowering their max speeds will help balance them against other lights.

Its important to set a precedent on speed caps for any future light mechs that get released so theyre not as unbalanced as the firestarter/jenner are.

Edited by Khobai, 02 December 2014 - 06:51 PM.

[TheGallows]

Khobai, on 02 December 2014 - 06:43 PM, said:

My proposed speed cap for the 30 tonners, including the spider 5V, is 150. The spider 5V already caps out at 150 now. So it wouldnt get nerfed by it. Non-ecm spiders would still go 170 though, since I already mentioned they would be exempt.

The nerf primarily affects the firestarter/jenner, both of which deserve it. Those two mechs currently render every other light mech obsolete. Especially now that the ECM role can be filled by any weight class. Lowering their max speeds will help balance them against other lights.

Its important to set a precedent on speed caps for any future light mechs that get released so theyre not as unbalanced as the firestarter/jenner are.

You have everything backwards. 35 ton lights are not overpowered, other light mechs are underpowered. Firestarters are hardly dominating in a meta where you have thunderwubs and timberwolves capable of tearing off a leg in a single alpha. If you try and balance jenners by making them suck as much as locusts, all you will accomplish is killing lights as a class entirely.

The locust and commando need serious buffs, well beyond even tier 5 quirks. You aren't going to balance them with anything else unless you want to nerf literally every other mech in the game.

Edited by TheGallows, 02 December 2014 - 08:48 PM.

[Adiuvo]

Khobai, on 02 December 2014 - 06:43 PM, said:

My proposed speed cap for the 30 tonners, including the spider 5V, is 150. The spider 5V already caps out at 150 now. So it wouldnt get nerfed by it. Non-ecm spiders would still go 170 though, since I already mentioned they would be exempt.

The nerf primarily affects the firestarter/jenner, both of which deserve it. Those two mechs currently render every other light mech obsolete. Especially now that the ECM role can be filled by any weight class. Lowering their max speeds will help balance them against other lights.

Its important to set a precedent on speed caps for any future light mechs that get released so theyre not as unbalanced as the firestarter/jenner are.

Other lights need buffs, the top lights don't need nerfs.

Assuming an equal level of play across all participants, they're the worst class.

[YueFei]

Adiuvo, on 02 December 2014 - 01:02 PM, said:

People by and large don't understand the armor model. They expect something like a single AC20 to be 'crippling' when it isn't to anything but a Locust.

35 tonners can take an AC20 to anywhere but the back or head, and not even have armor breached.

Any location hit by AC20 can survive it. Even the rear side torso survives such a hit if you put more than 7 armor on the back unless the AC20 double or triple crits on the armor penetration. Each leg could take two AC20 hits and not be destroyed unless the AC20 triple-crits on the second hit that penetrates the armor and deals 9 additional damage to the internal structure.

Most players have a hard time hitting a well-driven Firestarter with AC20, let alone hitting it in the same spot twice.

[Brody319]

I don't think a speed cap makes much sense. I mean because you have to put in a bigger engine to go as fast as a smaller mech. A firestarter needs a 295 engine to go as fast as a Locust with a 190 engine. thats an jump of 105. That seems fair to me at least considering the Locust is 20 tons and the Firestarter is 35 tons.

Yea when a light is moving really fast and got a lot of fire power it is annoying, but that doesn't mean we should nerf the speed, we just need to fix their damn hitboxes!! I mean I pilot the damn things, and I've seen so many AC20 and Gauss shells simply pass completely through my chest because I tapped my JJs at the right time.

Fix the hitboxes and the JJs and the Firestarter won't be as OP.

[Thunder Child]

From the 240ms Latency part of the world (New Zealand), I would just like my hits to register.

And this is not a generic light issue. I was in a match on Bog, and caught a Firestarter dead to rights with an ASRM30 Blast (Summoner), all missiles on target, he flickered once, but stayed green (crosshair went Red). His Locust buddy followed him in a few seconds later, while he was circling our teams Whale. I caught the Locust with the same spread. Not much more than a leg and a cockpit left on the doll (from fresh). So, I tried again on the firestarter when I next saw him. Direct hit, damage flickered, minimal effect.

Now, I get that these little f...suckers have more armor than a Locust. But they should at least NOTICE when you plaster them with 60pts of damage. I would have been happy if I'd at least taken the armor off somewhere. But when these little bas.... little annoying mechs can completely ignore damage from high ping players, you know it's a hitbox registry issue.

It's the same thing that happened with the Spiders, before they got fixed. Please, for the love of all that's holy, PGI, please fix the HSR so that us high ping players can actually register hits on these mechs.

[Corrado]

bring a streakcrow and see how firestarters perform.

[DjPush]

[Thunder Child]

Corrado, on 02 December 2014 - 11:46 PM, said:

bring a streakcrow and see how firestarters perform.

The problem, Corrado, is that I have to run one of the most Powerful Mediums in the game, to fight a Firestarter.

With a build that ignores the issue of Hitreg.

That's like saying "I can't kill a Timberwolf" "Well that's okay. Just ALWAYS pilot a Direwolf with Dual Gauss Dual PPC, and you can kill Timberwolves".

What if I don't want to run a Dual Gauss, Dual PPC Direwolf? Then I suppose I shall just have to ALWAYS die to the Timberwolves.

Or in this case, instead of running builds that I find fun (and, can effectively fight everything else in the game with), I instead have to resort to using just ONE mech, with ONE specific build, just so I can defeat something that is broken and needs to be fixed.

I am not wanting to see the quirks nerfed, or the chassis altered in anyway. I just want my hits, ones that I actually SEE HIT, on MY Screen, to count. That is all.

Edit: Just fyi, I don't usually have issues with T-Wolves. They have nice big shoulders to cry on. With autocannons.

Edited by Thunder Child, 02 December 2014 - 11:59 PM.

[Sarlic]

Bumping this topic up.

[Dawnstealer]

Joey Tankblaster, on 14 November 2014 - 02:14 AM, said:

My actual K/D in 44 games is 4.45. So it has pros and cons.

Wait, so you're killing a lance + for every time you die? That doesn't sound like a very resounding "con."

[Kain Demos]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 November 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

Yup., 2-3 patches ago it tanked, hard.

Of course, had they looked at Firestarters in general, they would have figured that thanks to hitbox design, consistent hit registry issues, and such, that they probably ALL were tier 2. The Ember was just preeminent, and relatively cheap, thus it was the most used.

The others were hardly "bad" before the Quirks.


It should be material to you, as it comes down to broken core mechanics.

FS9s have been exploited for so long, because 70-80% of the time, I can nail one dead to rights and magically, nearly no damage occurs. Red reticle flash, enemy mech shows damage, but oddly an ac20 or 2, get spread all over the torso and arms. ABout the only semi-reliable answer is LRMs, (SRMSs are decent too, at PBR), but I can't count the number of times I have seen Lights taking streams of LRMs from my MadDog that would have felled a Dire Wolf, and kept running.

I don't know if people are getting lazy in them because they are so good or noobs are jumping in them since they hear they are good but I'm starting to see "bad light behavior" I can't take advantage of due to their void shields.

Example--I was on mining collective and saw one on e-line about 300m away and he just bee lined straight towards me--I thought good, I can take this guy out before he gets too close and he is giving me an easy target. I put a 57 point laser vomit alpha center mass and got yellow armor on CT and LT only.

[Dawnstealer]

There's a lot of weirdness going on with the hitboxes, fershur. The really sad thing? The thing that makes me the most mad? When *I'M* piloting Firestarters? I get one shot cored while moving perpendicular to the shooter, jumping, spinning, whatever. But if I shoot at one while in a high-alpha monster?

*ping!*

[Kain Demos]

TheGallows, on 02 December 2014 - 06:29 PM, said:

Yes, we desperately need to save the poor timberwolves from being abused by the firestarters. God forbid an obviously skilled pilot brought your mech to half health before dying.

In what world should a 75 ton 'mech not crush a 35 ton one?

I guess you missed the part where he was simply saying that his hits weren't registering too.