20517 replies to this topic

[Gasoline]

Odanan, on 02 March 2018 - 04:06 AM, said:

The big question is: what will be the next (Clan) mech???

Spoiler

Major candidates:

• Hellhound (please PGI, make it the MW4's original design, not the uninspired TT's Conjurer)
  
• Rifleman IIC - possible issues with Harmony Gold
  
• Stone Rhino - possible issues with Harmony Gold
  
• Warhammer IIC - possible issues with Harmony Gold
  
• Fire Falcon - very good (and cute) light omnimech
  
• Vapor Eagle - excellent medium battlemech, but would feel like a slap in the face of the Black Lanner buyers (unless PGI buffs the BKL soon).

The last Clan mechs were: Blood Asp (assault), Sun Spider (heavy), Black Lanner (medium), Piranha (light), Nova Cat (heavy), Arctic Fox (medium), Mad Cat MKII (assault), Cougar (light).


Apparently, it's time for a new Clan light mech. Except we had an IS light mech in March. So... clan medium mech next?

Short list:

• Fire Falcon (light omnimech), or
  
• Vapor Eagle or Hellhound (medium battlemech)

The last releases have been/will be light (Piranha), medium (Black Lanner), heavy (Sun Spider), assault (Blood Asp) for clan and medium (Hellspawn), heavy (Thanatos), assault (Fafnir), light (Flea) for IS.

So considering this it at least some pattern now the most likely upcoming mechs will be light for clan and medium for IS.

Judging from the poll the most popular clan light is the Fire Moth (unlikely - speed) followed Locust IIC (HG issue) and the Urbanmech IIC. But the most interesting seems to be the Hellion.

The next IS medium will most likely be the Chimera... another mech to safely skip. The Dervish has slightly more votes but is unlikely before the MW5 release.

IS 25t? Brigand!

[Ovion]

FLG 01, on 02 March 2018 - 09:22 AM, said:

Brigand.

Good hardpoints and it has jump jets...and great lore. It's a pirate Mech, PGI's art department could do some really amazing stuff with that background.

But Mongoose and Nexus/Jackrabbit would also be nice choices.

Too bad we just got an IS light.

I do feel the Flea was a wasted 'slot'.
Oh yay, the poor mans locust! woo. .

I would prefer the Mongoose just because of how it looks, but the Brigand is a good choice too.

the Jackrabbit would be interesting as a 'heavy' ballistic focused 25T mech.

Then of courese, for the Clans, Locust IIC!

[Metus regem]

Ovion, on 02 March 2018 - 09:36 AM, said:

I do feel the Flea was a wasted 'slot'.
Oh yay, the poor mans locust! woo. .

I would prefer the Mongoose just because of how it looks, but the Brigand is a good choice too.

the Jackrabbit would be interesting as a 'heavy' ballistic focused 25T mech.

Then of courese, for the Clans, Locust IIC!

I think a lot of feel that the Flea was a missed oppertunity by a couple of years... As most of the uproar about it went a way years ago...

Personally I would've like to have seen any of the following:

Hammer
Anubis
Dart
Eagle
Mercury
Red shift

[Jay Leon Hart]

Odanan, on 02 March 2018 - 04:06 AM, said:

The big question is: what will be the next (Clan) mech???

• Fire Falcon - very good (and cute) light omnimech
  
• Vapor Eagle - excellent medium battlemech, but would feel like a slap in the face of the Black Lanner buyers (unless PGI buffs the BKL soon).

Other good candidates are;
Light- Hellion or Incubus
Medium - Crimson Langur or Rabid Coyote

[Jay Leon Hart]

Odanan, on 02 March 2018 - 08:44 AM, said:

Inner Sphere is in dire need of a 25 tonner... which one is the best option?

Raptor

Aside from the Brigand or Nexus, how about the Koto? They would need to go with the "original" 3055 version, though.

[Ovion]

Metus regem, on 02 March 2018 - 09:55 AM, said:

I think a lot of feel that the Flea was a missed oppertunity by a couple of years... As most of the uproar about it went a way years ago...

yeah, and the reason it wasn't released then, is JUST as valid now as it was then - the Flea is a poor mans 'not' locust used due to not having access to the Locust.
With the superior Locust, you just don't need the flea.

[Metus regem]

Ovion, on 02 March 2018 - 10:37 AM, said:

yeah, and the reason it wasn't released then, is JUST as valid now as it was then - the Flea is a poor mans 'not' locust used due to not having access to the Locust.
With the superior Locust, you just don't need the flea.

Yup, it's why I always asked those that were shouting for it, "It's a worse Locust, why do you want it?", the responce I always got was "'Cause they announced it, they need to follow through on it!"

I agree with Arisen, the IS is it's own worst enemy when it comes to getting bad mechs because people let themselves be blinded by nostalgia... There were better options for the IS in all of the last four or five mechs chosen for the IS recently... But we are getting what people asked for, no matter how much they are going to ***** and moan about it being sub par once it arrives...

[Angus McFife VI]

Jay Leon Hart, on 02 March 2018 - 10:24 AM, said:

[/list] Other good candidates are;
Light- Hellion or Incubus
Medium - Crimson Langur or Rabid Coyote

The rabid coyote would look amazing with new art

[FLG 01]

Metus regem, on 02 March 2018 - 10:57 AM, said:

There were better options for the IS in all of the last four or five mechs chosen for the IS recently... But we are getting what people asked for, no matter how much they are going to ***** and moan about it being sub par once it arrives...

I am not even angry about the fact that there were better option; I am angry that people want bad units. People asking for the Chimera or the Hollander are doing just that.

The bad part about the Flea is not even its performance. With quirks it could be good, of course. The bad part is that the people who really like light Mechs are dominated by a larger group of people who just think it would be nice to have the Flea in game and then forget it after a few rounds. I really like light Mechs but there are only two IS lights I find appealing, so I am needlessly limited. And I fear the Flea won't change that.

Nonetheless I hope I will like it.

[Metus regem]

FLG 01, on 02 March 2018 - 11:17 AM, said:

I am not even angry about the fact that there were better option; I am angry that people want bad units. People asking for the Chimera or the Hollander are doing just that.

The bad part about the Flea is not even its performance. With quirks it could be good, of course. The bad part is that the people who really like light Mechs are dominated by a larger group of people who just think it would be nice to have the Flea in game and then forget it after a few rounds. I really like light Mechs but there are only two IS lights I find appealing, so I am needlessly limited. And I fear the Flea won't change that.

Nonetheless I hope I will like it.

As someone that likes to pilot a Locust 1V, I look at the Flea and I just ask "why?", then when I hear people ask for the Hollander, I start to wonder if their parents are related to each other, specifically after I explain why it is a bad mech and they just say "But God Quirks® will save it!" Hoping for God Quirks® to save something should be a freaking warring sign that it is a bad mech...

I told people why the Uziel would be less than ideal out of the box, all i heard back was "but Quirks!", it landed and those same people lamented that it wasn't living up to their expectations...

The Hellspawn is another example of this, the Chimera is worry some... As I mentioned there are better mechs, but they are less well known by the most vocal members of the community, because they are not in older MW titles.

[Sereglach]

Odanan, on 02 March 2018 - 08:44 AM, said:

Inner Sphere is in dire need of a 25 tonner... which one is the best option?

FLG 01, on 02 March 2018 - 09:22 AM, said:

Brigand.

Good hardpoints and it has jump jets...and great lore. It's a pirate Mech, PGI's art department could do some really amazing stuff with that background.

But Mongoose and Nexus/Jackrabbit would also be nice choices.

Too bad we just got an IS light.

I think the Brigand would be a great choice for IS 25 tonner. Personally, I want the Mongoose more, but I certainly would not complain about the Brigand.

Also . . . who cares if we just got an IS light? They announced something like 7 heavies in a row through the "classics" period; and the game is in desperate need of more light chassis across both Clan and IS, especially for the non-35 ton brackets.

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As to the Flea, I don't think it "wasted" a slot at all. I think it's going to be a solid addition. It's an up-gunned Locust, sure, but the much slower base speed will likely be accompanied by Urbanmech-esque armor quirks (with modestly smaller quirks and/or just structure quirks on the MASC/ECM variants). However, I don't think it'll be in dire need of those quirks to save any viability/fun it could have.

It's going to be just as tiny as the Locust and just as big as a PITA to shoot at . . . but carry a lot more bite. If anything, the Flea makes me want 4x Ballistic hardpoints on the LCT-3V and 6x Ballistic hardpoints on the LCT-1V that much more, so they have a chance at competing. Also, unlike the Locust, I don't think the hitboxes are going to be as easily picked out and shot through on the Flea. The body is quite a small uniform box; and therefore the hitboxes will blend together in the heat of a firefight, making them less easily picked out.

[Odanan]

Gasoline, on 02 March 2018 - 09:35 AM, said:

Judging from the poll the most popular clan light is the Fire Moth (unlikely - speed) followed Locust IIC (HG issue) and the Urbanmech IIC. But the most interesting seems to be the Hellion.

Hellion pales against the Arctic Cheetah. Fire Falcon is a great option for the Mist Lynx in it's 25 tons.

Gasoline, on 02 March 2018 - 09:35 AM, said:

The next IS medium will most likely be the Chimera... another mech to safely skip. The Dervish has slightly more votes but is unlikely before the MW5 release.

IS 25t? Brigand!

Brigand? Cool. It actually was in a MekPak for MW4:M, so it really fits.

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 02 March 2018 - 11:41 AM, said:

Hellion pales against the Arctic Cheetah. Fire Falcon is a great option for the Mist Lynx in it's 25 tons.

Brigand? Cool. It actually was in a MekPak for MW4:M, so it really fits.

Eh, it was a MegaMek addition... let's not confuse those with "real" MW4 releases.

[Odanan]

Jay Leon Hart, on 02 March 2018 - 10:28 AM, said:

Raptor

Raptor would be a great choice. Is PGI ready to introduce the IS omnis?

Bishop Steiner, on 02 March 2018 - 11:42 AM, said:

Eh, it was a MegaMek addition... let's not confuse those with "real" MW4 releases.

I know... I know...

[Ovion]

Metus regem, on 02 March 2018 - 11:27 AM, said:

As someone that likes to pilot a Locust 1V, I look at the Flea and I just ask "why?", then when I hear people ask for the Hollander, I start to wonder if their parents are related to each other, specifically after I explain why it is a bad mech and they just say "But God Quirks® will save it!" Hoping for God Quirks® to save something should be a freaking warring sign that it is a bad mech...

In my opinion, the Hollander would be salvageable without quirks by A: Hardpoint Inflation. B: Doing something interesting like releasing it as half Light, Half Medium.

This would give you something along the lines of:
BZK-F3 - (35T) Gauss Rifle (To bring it in line with the likely 3-7 hardpoints on the G1, 3-7B)
BZK-G1 - (35T) LBX10, 2ML (Probably 1-3 B, 2-4E)
BZK-F5 - (45T) Gauss Rifle, Medium Laser, SSRM2 (1-3B, 1-3E, 1-3M but not more than 7 / whatever the rest get)
BZK-F7 - (45T) Heavy Gauss Rifle (same as the F3)

Leaves 1 35T and 1 45T PGI variant for reinforcements, with the added bonus of 2 Hero variants, one for each.
Probably one would replace the Ballistic with a heavy missile of some flavour, one of each would be an energy boat
The base package of 2+2 for $20, the reinforcements of 2 for $15, then the 2 heroes for $10 and $15 a pop, to be in line with other packs.

But yeah, wanting a mech and expecting it to be fixed by something as malleable and prone to change as quirks is simply absurd.

Edited by Ovion, 02 March 2018 - 11:50 AM.

[Sereglach]

Odanan, on 02 March 2018 - 03:32 AM, said:

Now PGI gave us Fleas, it looks like they really want to complete the MW4's mech host (and are avoiding HG issues). So, what more MW4 (and MW4:M) can give us?

I don't think locked STD heat sinks are going to be as difficult to deal with as people think. PGI's already shown they're not averse to using quirks to basically give mechs cooling ability that they "could/should" have. In addition, when you look at the heat sink requirements and crit space on those mechs there's no severely pressing issue turning them into DHS:

The Strider can move the one SHS in the leg into either arm with plenty of space on all builds.

The Owens carries a 280 XL with 10 SHS, you can just declare it to have DHS and not change any build crits at all.

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As for the Fire Moth/Dasher, I've been down the whole hit registration mess of why it's no longer an issue; and that PGI has been afraid to bite the bullet and just put it in. They're finally putting in a full-fledged city map AND they're finally killing the 32 bit client (which is probably part of the ability to have the city map). Let alone the huge pile of hit-reg improvements they did . . . remember Russ stating that Bone-specific HSR "removed their hit reg problems".

Posts for reference:
https://mwomercs.com...23#entry5884123

https://mwomercs.com...38#entry5883538


Therefore, Fire Moth is 162 kph + 12.15 kph from Speed Tweak grants 174.15kph then + 10% MASC = 191.57 kph . . . which is not that far beyond the old "cap" the Commando had with 10% speed tweak of ~172 kph. In fact it's about the same 20kph boost to speed cap we got when they did the first round of speed cap increases.

Also, they could easily drop MASC 1 to 5% speed with more agility if it's THAT big of a concern and I don't think there'd be any issues over it.

Edited by Sereglach, 02 March 2018 - 11:56 AM.

[FupDup]

Sereglach, on 02 March 2018 - 11:52 AM, said:

Therefore, Fire Moth is 162 kph + 12.15 kph from Speed Tweak grants 174.15kph then + 10% MASC = 191.57 kph . . . which is not that far beyond the old "cap" the Commando had with 10% speed tweak of ~172 kph. In fact it's about the same 20kph boost to speed cap we got when they did the first round of speed cap increases.

Also, they could easily drop MASC 1 to 5% speed with more agility if it's THAT big of a concern and I don't think there'd be any issues over it.

You did the maths wrong, you first add up the multipliers separately then you multiply the base speed by the combined multiplier. So it's a 27.5% speed boost (20% MASC and 7.5% tweak) thus resulting in 206.5 kph (162 * 1.275).

Also, nerfing MASC isn't the answer because even now it's not considered worth the weight to have it hardwired. More agility isn't going to be that great on a mech that will likely have very high base agility out of the box, or an even worse case is that PGI would nerf the base agility just to make MASC feel like it does something (see Black Lanner that has lower agility than the Linebacker).

[Sereglach]

FupDup, on 02 March 2018 - 12:24 PM, said:

You did the maths wrong, you first add up the multipliers separately then you multiply the base speed by the combined multiplier. So it's a 27.5% speed boost (20% MASC and 7.5% tweak) thus resulting in 206.5 kph (162 * 1.275).

Also, nerfing MASC isn't the answer because even now it's not considered worth the weight to have it hardwired. More agility isn't going to be that great on a mech that will likely have very high base agility out of the box, or an even worse case is that PGI would nerf the base agility just to make MASC feel like it does something (see Black Lanner that has lower agility than the Linebacker).

MASC 1 is only 10% speed boost as per MASC release (it hasn't received any tweaks that I'm aware of: https://mwomercs.com...13405-16jun2015 ). You're numbers of really high. If you do 162 * 1.175 you only end up with 190.35, which is still slightly lower than I had previously stated.

Still no reason to prevent putting in the Fire Moth.

Regardless, I'm not advocating nerfing MASC. I'm just saying if they're going to have that much of a freak-out over it then there's nothing stopping them from doing a nerf to keep the top speed lower.

Edited by Sereglach, 02 March 2018 - 12:47 PM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Sereglach, on 02 March 2018 - 12:47 PM, said:

MASC 1 is only 10% speed boost as per MASC release (it hasn't received any tweaks that I'm aware of: https://mwomercs.com...13405-16jun2015 ). You're numbers of really high. If you do 162 * 1.175 you only end up with 190.35, which is still slightly lower than I had previously stated.

It was changed

From here;

David Bradley, on 01 March 2018 - 03:52 PM, said:

The MASC values have been tuned since their initial release. MASC Mk I now provides a +20% speed boost. A Flea with its max engine and MASC will be able to run at 165.24 kph.

[Sereglach]

Jay Leon Hart, on 02 March 2018 - 01:17 PM, said:

It was changed

From here;

Thanks for that info. Regardless, given all of the Hit Reg fixes in place and PGI admitting that there's no real game breaking issues anymore for speed, then there's still no reason to not release the Fire Moth/Dasher. The speed argument is thoroughly debunked. The only thing stopping PGI from doing it is PGI.