20517 replies to this topic

[Odanan]

CYBRN4CR, on 14 December 2013 - 09:07 PM, said:

Doubtful the Flea will be one of the two in between Sabre and Clan drops. I mean look at the Clan mechs chosen. Conveniently, the first 8 of 16 mechs weren't known for their use of MASC. So more likely any MASC mech will show up after June (assuming IS mechs are released concurrently) or after January 2015 (assuming a similar pattern as the Phoenix release).

Indeed. And they picked only the "slow" light mechs, so I see no solution for the MASC and the speed cap for a long time.

CYBRN4CR, on 14 December 2013 - 09:07 PM, said:

But interestingly two mechs known to have a Clan Targeting Computer were chosen (Adder Warhawk), which makes me wonder if they will actually include that (adding another balance problem) or fudge it by converting the tonnage to extra clan DHS.

I'm very worried by the Target Computer. The fact the Masakari is the ultimate Clan package (thus "better" than the Daishi) speaks for itself.

CYBRN4CR, on 14 December 2013 - 09:07 PM, said:

Oh, and that humanoid, controversial, specialist mech as the next light mech is the Firestarter (if I'm not too late to chime in). Most likely this mech will be the one seen in April.

Plus, that 95t slot is looking mighty empty in the IS lineup. Might as well fill that hole up with the only mech that can before the clan mechs hit.

Edit: Oops. Just realized it was two months (April May) before the Kit Fox arrives in June and the last C-bill Sabre drop.

Sure! Banshee and Firestarter.

[Odanan]

Oh God... I'm very happy I asked for my Overlord refund (just after the 3rd person issue).

This game is going Power Creep with the Clans. The "balance" approach is no balance at all.

My last hope is being able to play only against IS pure tech (even if only in private servers). Otherwise, MWO is dead to me.

[Odanan]

CYBRN4CR, on 15 December 2013 - 01:15 AM, said:

Was this really a big surprise considering every other MW game ever made that had Clans and IS together was essentially a power creep in favor of the Clans? =/

So, are you still looking forward to the third and fourth years of service?

[Bishop Steiner]

IDK.

Maybe we have different expectations, or at least definitions of power creep. But what I read in Paul's update seemed IMO, to be about as good a plan for balance as can be expected without full out neutering the Clans as a whole. Yeah, I woulda preferred the original 3015 MW5 also, but I'm pretty sure we've all known for 2 years now, that the Clans WERE coming.

Things like locked cores, IMO are one of the best balancing tools available, plus the steps for balancing the weapons themselves, while not perfect by Paul's own admission, seem like a good starting point. The targeting computer is a point of concern to see how it is implemented (had they ever listened about speed and range induced CoF, the Targeting Comp would have been easy peasy to introduce, by cutting CoF in half, etc).

It's getting almost laughable the lengths people almost seem determined to go to for finding something, anything to make into the next bogeyman though. The Clan lovers are crying because the current plan makes the Kit Fox, Adder and Hellbringer (which does not even exist on the itinerary yet, lol) "unplayable" by their narrow, need for OP Clans views, the Old School IS brigade is crying the Clans will be too strong (despite having no hard facts yet, but a decent sounding plan of action), and then half the rest of the forums are crying because the Clans are being introduced "and we don't even have UI2.0 and CW yet, rarr!!!", despite the plainly spelled out point that the Phoenix and Clans are being rolled out to buy time away from the mech of the month club to focus on finishing those things.

Decaf people, decaf.

Btw, love my Phoenix package, even if the TBolt is kinda underwhelming. Don't really foresee a Clan pack in my future, but that's cuz I'm not a Clan lover, and the one Clan Mech I really want, the Nova should be the second one released, in July, anyhow.

[Odanan]

CYBRN4CR, on 15 December 2013 - 01:35 AM, said:

Call me crazy, but, OH HELL YES! It's going to be fun, in a malicious and and sadistic sort of way.

You know it will be Paul balancing the Clan systems, right? Paul.

You are not malicious nor sadistic, my friend. You are m-a-s-o-c-h-i-s-t.

Edit: so m-a-s-o-c-h-i-s-t is censored? WTF?

Edited by Odanan, 15 December 2013 - 01:51 AM.

[Odanan]

CYBRN4CR, on 15 December 2013 - 02:04 AM, said:

I've sold every mech, every hero mech, every engine, every module, and every piece of equipment I could sell for c-bills, and bought and sold stuff to burn my c-bills to the point I couldn't buy machine gun ammo before. And then I bounced my way back up by playing nothing but trial mechs for a week straight. Why because instead of wanting to rl murder the game populace, I turned it on my own virtual inventory. Funny thing is, I actually had fun bouncing back in trial mechs.

So of course I'm a *********. What's your point?

And no I will not see a doctor. MWO is good enough.

As for the sensor thing, vOv dunno man.

No problem... if you are in my opposing team.

[John MatriX82]

Odanan, on 15 December 2013 - 01:01 AM, said:

Oh God... I'm very happy I asked for my Overlord refund (just after the 3rd person issue).

This game is going Power Creep with the Clans. The "balance" approach is no balance at all.

My last hope is being able to play only against IS pure tech (even if only in private servers). Otherwise, MWO is dead to me.

I've mindlessly recharged a few MCs in the latest black friday sale, but after seeing the new very well thought spawn points, I've ragequitted the game and already regretted to pay them.

Now after Clan reveal and the borked idea behind the clan balance tech.. I've already redacted the refund e-mail. This game is going nowhere.

I'm just waiting for the "apology" of boll0ks that will tell us "everything it's good love love love you all" to trigger that e-mail and leave this game for good.

As with the Phoenix, they didn't even had that little touch to say "to all the founders, you get a 20% discount if you buy any of the Phoenix or Clan packs". These guys don't deserve anything more.

And I hate it, because (take away the balance) combat is good, mechs feel like mechs (taking away movement archetypes that don't allow me to step over an ankle-tall ridge because "it's too steep"), art is beautiful, graphics just need to see DX11, Iglesias and his team did an outstanding job. But the rest.. the rest spills out incompetence from every hole.

Edited by John MatriX82, 15 December 2013 - 03:10 AM.

[ssm]

John MatriX82, on 15 December 2013 - 03:09 AM, said:

(...)
And I hate it, because (take away the balance) combat is good, mechs feel like mechs (taking away movement archetypes that don't allow me to step over an ankle-tall ridge because "it's too steep"), art is beautiful, graphics just need to see DX11, Iglesias and his team did an outstanding job. But the rest.. the rest spills out incompetence from every hole.

Actually, things you listed here are way enough for me to keep playing this game.

[Wabbit Swaya]

Hikaru, on 27 June 2012 - 03:27 PM, said:

I think the Blackjack is a viable choice.

• BJ-1 prime variant has jump jets, 4 beam and 2 projectile hardpoints.
  
• BJ-1DB keeps the jump jets and instead swaps the projectile hardpoints for beam hardpoints, 6 total.
  
• BJ-1DC drops the jump jets for 2 projectile 6 beam hard points total.

Later variants don't fit the 3049 timeline. These 3 give a good distinction between the sellable variants.


Vindicator doesn't work so much. The 3049 available variants aren't really distinctive with the way MWO's mech lab works.

And the Hatchetman is a no, because they haven't implemented meleeing or melee weapons yet.

I want the BJ's to get their proper respect, one of my favorites to play, though I think the 1DC is gimped because it can't carry as big an engine as the 1X, so it's basically a BJ-1 with clipped wings.
BUT, dammit I want my HEROIC BJ, maybe put four ballistic hardpoints on the arms, two energy in the torso, or go with 2 ballistic OR 2 energy in arms and 2 missile in either arm or side torso in additon to 2 energy in torso. and just two JJs and maybe ecm capability, because that would be one evil little medium, maybe call it TAZ.

[John MatriX82]

ssm, on 15 December 2013 - 03:16 AM, said:

Actually, things you listed here are way enough for me to keep playing this game.

And that's perfectly understandable. The problem is when you've seen this game since CB and you only saw it getting awarded only by nerfs after nerfs, limiting the fun and experience of play to a point that you understand that PGI will never deliver.. my probably wrong expectations.

So if you have fun it's perfectly legit and it's good for you . I'm done, I've already quitted from pug play and I just keep going for 12 mans of my company, but what I'm seeing is making me seriously think to leave and come back only if good sense will ever grab PGI, which is a far, far away hope I fear.

[ssm]

John MatriX82, on 15 December 2013 - 03:41 AM, said:

And that's perfectly understandable. The problem is when you've seen this game since CB and you only saw it getting awarded only by nerfs after nerfs, limiting the fun and experience of play to a point that you understand that PGI will never deliver.. my probably wrong expectations.

So if you have fun it's perfectly legit and it's good for you . I'm done, I've already quitted from pug play and I just keep going for 12 mans of my company, but what I'm seeing is making me seriously think to leave and come back only if good sense will ever grab PGI, which is a far, far away hope I fear.

Of course, I wasn't around for CB so I didn't get a brunt of PGI's promises, but still - through some of those nerfs you mention game became perfectly playable now, mechs still look amazing, and things are moving in right direction (albeit at glacial pace)

As for delivering on promises - it's just transition between "we need to get funding so let's be overly optimistic" happy phase and sad, brutal reality of game development. Bigger the expectations, bigger the dissapointment.

[Bishop Steiner]

John MatriX82, on 15 December 2013 - 03:41 AM, said:

And that's perfectly understandable. The problem is when you've seen this game since CB and you only saw it getting awarded only by nerfs after nerfs, limiting the fun and experience of play to a point that you understand that PGI will never deliver.. my probably wrong expectations.

So if you have fun it's perfectly legit and it's good for you . I'm done, I've already quitted from pug play and I just keep going for 12 mans of my company, but what I'm seeing is making me seriously think to leave and come back only if good sense will ever grab PGI, which is a far, far away hope I fear.

One man's fun is another man's metarape.

I find, despite detection issues with SRMs, the weapon balance now to be the best it's been since CB. I certainly have no desire to see Poptart and PPCWarrior Online return.

Out of curiousity, what is so objectionable in Paul's post about balancing Clan Tech? I'm a dyed in the wool Succession Wars era IS jock, but don't really see the egregious error in balancing concepts, aside of course, from my preference to never see the Clans at all, which from a marketing standpoint, unfortunately, would have been suicide.

UI2.0 looks to be making interesting progress in the test server.
CW and Dx11 are in the pipeline
Clan Concepts are not atrocious, whether their in games models will be remain to be seen.
And most importantly, they have followed their plan since announcing Phoenix pretty well, and the obvious point of the Clan Pack, is 1) to drum up more revenue, and 2) have the Mech of the Month club squirreled away for the next year, so as to allow pure focus on backend.

Mind you, the Gold Mechs are just plain dumb, but hey, if they don't offer them, they for sure won't sell any. (though I question the sanity of anyone who does buy one)

[Odanan]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 December 2013 - 04:26 AM, said:

One man's fun is another man's metarape.

I find, despite detection issues with SRMs, the weapon balance now to be the best it's been since CB. I certainly have no desire to see Poptart and PPCWarrior Online return.

They introduced some ugly convoluted systems (ghost heat and gauss rifle ghost delay) and, TBO, I don't think the weapon balance is much better than the Closed Beta.

Bishop Steiner, on 15 December 2013 - 04:26 AM, said:

Out of curiousity, what is so objectionable in Paul's post about balancing Clan Tech? I'm a dyed in the wool Succession Wars era IS jock, but don't really see the egregious error in balancing concepts, aside of course, from my preference to never see the Clans at all, which from a marketing standpoint, unfortunately, would have been suicide.

It is objectionable the fact he can't balance the Clan systems. He will just make a big mess that will kill this game.

Bishop Steiner, on 15 December 2013 - 04:26 AM, said:

UI2.0 looks to be making interesting progress in the test server.

Many people who tried it say it is terrible.

Bishop Steiner, on 15 December 2013 - 04:26 AM, said:

CW and Dx11 are in the pipeline

Come on, they didn't even start to implement CW, a supporting pillar of the game.

Bishop Steiner, on 15 December 2013 - 04:26 AM, said:

Clan Concepts are not atrocious, whether their in games models will be remain to be seen.

The concept arts are amazing. Couldn't be better.

Bishop Steiner, on 15 December 2013 - 04:26 AM, said:

And most importantly, they have followed their plan since announcing Phoenix pretty well, and the obvious point of the Clan Pack, is 1) to drum up more revenue, and 2) have the Mech of the Month club squirreled away for the next year, so as to allow pure focus on backend.

Mind you, the Gold Mechs are just plain dumb, but hey, if they don't offer them, they for sure won't sell any. (though I question the sanity of anyone who does buy one)

They certainly did something very wrong for losing most of their playerbase in 24 hours. I can't believe they didn't see it coming.

The Clan Collection promotion was started too soon, with a game no different from the CB. They should have a solid Community Warfare (something promised long time ago) before asking for more money.


There is something really wrong going on with PGI.

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 15 December 2013 - 04:48 AM, said:

[/size]
They introduced some ugly convoluted systems (ghost heat and gauss rifle ghost delay) and, TBO, I don't think the weapon balance is much better than the Closed Beta.

Agreed, though mind you I said the best it's been SINCE closed beta, not that it is inherently better. Though some of the convoluted thinking, while convoluted, has worked, like it or not. I can't even think of the last time I thought "OMG!! Ghost Heat cost me that match!".

I can think of how glad I am that 4PPC Stalkers are not the most common sight anymore.

Odanan, on 15 December 2013 - 04:48 AM, said:

[/size]
It is objectionable the fact he can't balance the Clan systems. He will just make a big mess that will kill this game.

Got hard details or just ad hominem? Can't and things not being done to your ideal, are two very different things. I have found many initially objectionable things to have made sense, "big picture". And the biggest problem on these forums ifs the number of people who only stare at the tree in front of them and miss the forest.

Odanan, on 15 December 2013 - 04:48 AM, said:

[/size]

Many people who tried it say it is terrible.

I tried it Can't say I liked or disliked it, it's still too limited to form an opinion, IMO. Which is another issue people have here, making half formed opinions without all the details (which IS in part PGI's fault for not being transparent enough and making it a point to put ALL updates actually on their own bloody web site)

Odanan, on 15 December 2013 - 04:48 AM, said:

[/size]
Come on, they didn't even start to implement CW, a supporting pillar of the game.

So the faction badges and info from launch were nothing? Or do you mean, OMG! I don't have it in my hands right this moment, so I will hyperbolize the situation?

Odanan, on 15 December 2013 - 04:48 AM, said:

[/size]
The concept arts are amazing. Couldn't be better.

Eh, pretty good. Too homogeneous with his other designs, and I am not terribly in love with the Warhawk, DireWolf or Summoner. How they translate into in game models, their hitboxes, etc, remain to be seen. And of course, Scale, since in theory, all Clan Mechs should be more compact than their IS counterparts.

Odanan, on 15 December 2013 - 04:48 AM, said:

[/size]
They certainly did something very wrong for losing most of their playerbase in 24 hours. I can't believe they didn't see it coming.

Hard numbers and data? And which 24 hours?

Odanan, on 15 December 2013 - 04:48 AM, said:

[/size]
The Clan Collection promotion was started too soon, with a game no different from the CB. They should have a solid Community Warfare (something promised long time ago) before asking for more money.

Actually it started right when most of us assumed it would. Xmas is a great time to get people to spend extra cash. Actually I find the game quite different from Closed Beta, for better or worse, thought he game modes, have of course, not expanded, yet. On the other hand, since anyone paying attention, again, knew they were planning to use these bulk sales to free up blocks of time to work the back end, seems... moot?


http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2983538

let's convince the Devs they want frank in their cockpits too.

[SgtMagor]

um, I want a Banshee so I can be in its cockpit, although a Frank in the cockpit seems pretty kewl too!

Edited by SgtMagor, 15 December 2013 - 05:39 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

SgtMagor, on 15 December 2013 - 05:37 AM, said:

um, I want a Banshee so I can be in its cockpit, although a Frank in the cockpit seems pretty kewl too!

your Banshee is cross eyed. Odanan's Banshee has a neckbeard. Why we no see cool looking banshees?

[Adridos]

Odanan, on 15 December 2013 - 04:48 AM, said:

There is something really wrong going on with PGI.

Bad management, plain and simple.

People are working all over the place. One day they are implementing DX11, the other they're creating the UI 2.0, sometimes work on bugs or implementing features,... get nothing done properly or on time.

instead of getting the competitive community, or a hired specialist do the balance, Paul, the monetisation manager, gets to helm the balance of the game.

Let's not even mention the nonexistent PR management.

Et cetera, really.

[John MatriX82]

Odanan, on 15 December 2013 - 04:48 AM, said:

They introduced some ugly convoluted systems (ghost heat and gauss rifle ghost delay) and, TBO, I don't think the weapon balance is much better than the Closed Beta.

The weapon balance has been reached by nerfing each weapon. Guess what, people mount the next "usable" weapon on the list. Before it was the GR, now it's the UAC5s AC5s. These will get nerfed (i've read the interviews) then we'll use AC 20 and AC 10. These will get nerfed again and then there will be nothing else left to be nerfed.

Odanan, on 15 December 2013 - 04:48 AM, said:

It is objectionable the fact he can't balance the Clan systems. He will just make a big mess that will kill this game.

They want to "IS-ize" the Clan mechs. They should realize we need PVE environments where we can do campaign as IS defending from Clans and vice versa, CW should run IS vs IS (house vs house), IS vs Clan (house vs invading clans).

Balance the clans through weight, IS drops 750, Clans drop 560 (spitting numbers).

Do you know why they want Clans to be able to launch and get balanced among ISs? because there will be not enough players to do the above splitting. Too much tight playerbase, thus the mechgrab is the only way to go, so we have to make Clan mechs not too different from IS ones. Which is wrong.

Odanan, on 15 December 2013 - 04:48 AM, said:

Many people who tried it say it is terrible.

Indeed it is. And in the latest podcast I heard I've heard.. that Smurfy isn't clear for newcomers. Like it is clear seeing one mech section at a time without undestanding why I've finished the available slots due to endo and ff together and it's cool to pass through a clickfest just to select armor in one panel and then select critical slots/weapons in another for the darn same mech section and only for the front. It's clumsy, it's even better what we have now. I can't really stand things like these!

Odanan, on 15 December 2013 - 04:48 AM, said:

Come on, they didn't even start to implement CW, a supporting pillar of the game.

Yep. They should have done that, Dx11 and balance things BEFORE getting the Clans. Phoenix should have guaranteed enough funds to the purpose but no. I feel they just need to milk out more money, who cares about the player base.

Again not even a discount for founders or Phoenix buyers (hell, they still have to get the Sabre pack).

Odanan, on 15 December 2013 - 04:48 AM, said:

The concept arts are amazing. Couldn't be better.

Of course they are. That's why my anger increases furthermore.

Odanan, on 15 December 2013 - 04:48 AM, said:

They certainly did something very wrong for losing most of their playerbase in 24 hours. I can't believe they didn't see it coming.

The Clan Collection promotion was started too soon, with a game no different from the CB. They should have a solid Community Warfare (something promised long time ago) before asking for more money.

There is something really wrong going on with PGI.

I guess that those leaked images triggered IGP to say "there you've been spoilered rush those things out naow!"

Then the Clan Tech post looks to have been put together in the nick of time (on saturday, too) a sign that they aren't even sure about what to do with the Clans. Which means hurry, which means again of NOT being aware (or even care) about their playerbase, which means than they'll have to rush things out, which means they'll screw them.

Bishop Steiner, on 15 December 2013 - 05:11 AM, said:

I can think of how glad I am that 4PPC Stalkers are not the most common sight anymore.

Do we agree that how they managed to deal with that build isn't the way they should have?
To destroy that, they've crippled out nearly everything else as well. Yet you still can mount 6 PPCs on a Stalker, something that shouldn't even be possible.

They brought this on themselves, leading to DHSs not working as DHSs, they brought the ghost heat, they crippled one weapon system after another; next on the list is the AC5s/UAC5s. The next one will be the AC 20. Then the AC 10. Then we'll throw out sticks at each other, oh wait! That will be the introduction of blunt/melee weapons! xD

I find that being able to equip XxPPCs along with AC5s or UAC5s or AC 20 in nearly every chassis (as it was with GR + XPPCs before and XPPCs earlier again) from assaults to mediums is a tad wrong. And that's what allows the omni hardpoints we have now.
In the 4PPC meta, a QKD could have 3PPCs; hell even Hunchbacks 4Ps with 3PPCs and a XL engine were good, I've even seen Jenners with dual PPCs. You shouldn't be able to mount those things at all in certain mechs! Imho of course.

Hardpoints should be restricted. With dynamic critical slots. K2 has 10 ballistic crits, 2 hardpoints. Dual UAC5 is the max you can do, do you want an AC 20? Cool, but that thing eats up all the 10 crits so the hardpoint that's in the opposite side torso isn't anymore available for any weapon. It would be easier that "hey, shoot dual AC 20s together and blow up from the heat, we forgot to write it down anywhere unless before being asked and revealing that only on these forums" also: "too bad we didn't presented that system on Twitter, too few available chars to explain that."

Edited by John MatriX82, 15 December 2013 - 02:52 PM.

[Steinar Bergstol]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 December 2013 - 01:44 AM, said:

Btw, love my Phoenix package, even if the TBolt is kinda underwhelming. Don't really foresee a Clan pack in my future, but that's cuz I'm not a Clan lover, and the one Clan Mech I really want, the Nova should be the second one released, in July, anyhow.

Thunderbolt is underwhelming? Underwhelming?!?

Well, I _never_!

Sir, those are fighting words! I shall see you at dawn, Sir, with loaded halibuts!

The nerve! Calling the most perfect mech in the history of history underwhelming! One does not simply disparage a Thunderbolt, sir!



Oh, and the clanmechs presented aren't ones I'm interested in buying either, being one of those old diehard 3025ers as well. That said, if a good looking Vulture/Mad Dog was presented _that_ might be what would manage to make me part with cash since the original Vulture design was always the one clanmech I loved the look of.

[Bishop Steiner]

Steinar Bergstol, on 15 December 2013 - 05:55 PM, said:

Thunderbolt is underwhelming? Underwhelming?!?

Well, I _never_!

Sir, those are fighting words! I shall see you at dawn, Sir, with loaded halibuts!

The nerve! Calling the most perfect mech in the history of history underwhelming! One does not simply disparage a Thunderbolt, sir!



Oh, and the clanmechs presented aren't ones I'm interested in buying either, being one of those old diehard 3025ers as well. That said, if a good looking Vulture/Mad Dog was presented _that_ might be what would manage to make me part with cash since the original Vulture design was always the one clanmech I loved the look of.

Well, not to poop on CarrionCrow's "Perfect Hitbox" Theory (I get way more survivability out of my Shawks, but it seems like you gotta dance and juke less in a Thud to survive) but the hardpoint's leave me unimpressed. I feel the my Jagers, I can outclass the Thuds every time. They of course have better hitboxed, but the firepower I can bring with my Jags have probably tinted my expectations, good sir!