20517 replies to this topic

[Sereglach]

I've said it time and again and provided the proof multiple times (in this thread no less) . . . PGI could do the Firemoth right now, without nerfing it, and without issue. Just like the city map, they need to grow a pair and make it happen.

Russ himself stated that, when they implemented bone-based HSR and fixed the bugs plaguing the HSR system, speed no longer became a limiting factor on what they could do for mechs. That statement was back in 2015/2016 if I remember correctly. Then, on top of that, lets not forget that they've done even more fixes to HSR and net code, improved server stability, AND (probably most importantly) finally increased the minimum specs of the game and implemented mandatory full 64 bit client.

We've already had mechs breaking 171 in the past when speed tweak was 10%; and that was literal years ago. Now, with the way MASC I works, the Fire Moth will only be going 162 * 1.075 for Speed Tweak = 174.15 * 1.1 for MASC = 191.565 KPH. That's only a about a 20kph jump in maximum speed. That's less than the jump that occurred back in approx. 2013 when the maximum speed went from 143.5 to 171 (Commando with 240 engine rating and 10% speed tweak) . . . or a nearly 30kph jump in maximum speed.

Seriously . . . can we PLEASE stop perpetuating this myth that the Fire Moth/Dasher would somehow need to be nerfed or that PGI just can't do it. That hasn't been the case for many years now. All PGI needs to do is work up the guts to actually implement the mech and deal with the fact that some people (mainly Assault primary pilots) would have to deal with another semi-reasonably competitive light mech.

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Odanan, on 24 March 2019 - 02:25 AM, said:

So be it.

• April: Fire Falcon (Clan light)
  
• May: Wasp (IS light)
  
• June: Hellhound (Clan medium)
  
• July: Crusader (IS heavy)
  
• August: Stone Rhino (Clan assault)

If I had it my way . . .
April - Fire Moth/Dasher
May - Mongoose or Brigand
June - Shadowhawk IIC
July - Clint
August - Griffin IIC
September - MW5 Commemorative Launch Pack . . . Valkyrie, Chameleon, Charger, Longbow with Wasp/Stinger combo pack as reinforcements. Include MW5 DLC Codes with each tier purchase and an MW5 Download Code on "Ultimate Pack" purchase.

Most importantly . . . presuming there's an expansion or "surprise" announcement that MW5 goes all the way to the Clan invasion, then ALL of the above listed mechs are viable for MW5 AND they help flesh out some underrepresented weight classes.

[Odanan]

Sereglach, on 24 March 2019 - 10:04 AM, said:

I've said it time and again and provided the proof multiple times (in this thread no less) . . . PGI could do the Firemoth right now, without nerfing it, and without issue. Just like the city map, they need to grow a pair and make it happen.

Russ himself stated that, when they implemented bone-based HSR and fixed the bugs plaguing the HSR system, speed no longer became a limiting factor on what they could do for mechs. That statement was back in 2015/2016 if I remember correctly. Then, on top of that, lets not forget that they've done even more fixes to HSR and net code, improved server stability, AND (probably most importantly) finally increased the minimum specs of the game and implemented mandatory full 64 bit client.

We've already had mechs breaking 171 in the past when speed tweak was 10%; and that was literal years ago. Now, with the way MASC I works, the Fire Moth will only be going 162 * 1.075 for Speed Tweak = 174.15 * 1.1 for MASC = 191.565 KPH. That's only a about a 20kph jump in maximum speed. That's less than the jump that occurred back in approx. 2013 when the maximum speed went from 143.5 to 171 (Commando with 240 engine rating and 10% speed tweak) . . . or a nearly 30kph jump in maximum speed.

Seriously . . . can we PLEASE stop perpetuating this myth that the Fire Moth/Dasher would somehow need to be nerfed or that PGI just can't do it. That hasn't been the case for many years now. All PGI needs to do is work up the guts to actually implement the mech and deal with the fact that some people (mainly Assault primary pilots) would have to deal with another semi-reasonably competitive light mech.

I hope you are right. Firemoth is the single Clan mech I want in the game. I guess the next few months will tell.

[Shadowomega1]

Odanan, on 24 March 2019 - 02:25 AM, said:

So be it.

• April: Fire Falcon (Clan light)
  
• May: Wasp (IS light)
  
• June: Hellhound (Clan medium)
  
• July: Crusader (IS heavy)
  
• August: Stone Rhino (Clan assault)

I think you might be right on the Fire Falcon, 25 tons, as the last light was the Incubus at 30 tons. Though they could easily get the Fire Moth at 20 tons as the devs seem to work different ends of the weight spectrum when they release mechs within a weight class.

Currently there are 18 clan mechs left within the light mech class, of which 9 of those mechs have 1 or 2 variants in total.


List of all Bipedal mechs within timeline that are currently not in game.

https://mwomercs.com...__fromsearch__1

Edited by Shadowomega1, 24 March 2019 - 11:45 AM.

[Sereglach]

Odanan, on 24 March 2019 - 11:19 AM, said:

I hope you are right. Firemoth is the single Clan mech I want in the game. I guess the next few months will tell.

It's not a matter of hope, it's a matter of the evidence and statements are already there. It's just like the city map. Remember, Russ said they'd been scared to do it for a LONG time, even once they had the ability . . . then they FINALLY broke down, worked up the nerve, and gave us Solaris City. All PGI has to do is work up the nerve to actually implement the Fire Moth/Dasher. However, when most of the community is more content with their heavies and assaults, it creates little pressure for PGI to leave their comfort zone.

Pardon the rant . . .

Personally, I think the biggest limiter is the fact that a lot of people, who expect their bigger weight classes to crush anything below them, will complain about another competitive light mech; and PGI know's it'll happen. It's like the Piranha . . . I was actually quite infuriated that mech got nerfs for being the first light -in a LONG time- to actually be reasonably competitive; and the only reason that happened was because of enough assaults/heavies complaining because they don't want to mount arm weapons and fight without armlock on . . . or heaven forbid carry streaks. Overall, the biggest reasons I've seen for the complaints, over and over again, is because people don't want to put in the effort to counter-play (it's like the people who say AMS isn't worth putting on a mech but complain PGI is creating LRMageddon). Yeah, I get a bit salty over the state of lights, which started deteriorating ever since PGI started giving out agility like candy to heavier weight classes. Despite still loving lights more than any other weight class, it's the biggest reason I play mediums more often then lights -when I do play- nowadays.

I think PGI is scared that a 190kph light (only in bursts, mind you) with 4.5 tons for weapons (at max armor) and high mounts will be reasonably competitive; and that they're afraid of the reaction that the "nerf the piranha" crowd will have because of it. They've been berated too much, by certain facets of the community, to stick to their old guns on trying to keep all weight classes truly competitive. The coming months won't be a deciding factor . . . the real question is "How long can PGI hold out vs. how much pressure is put on them by the community?"

[FupDup]

Sereglach, on 24 March 2019 - 01:38 PM, said:

I think PGI is scared that a 190kph light (only in bursts, mind you) with 4.5 tons for weapons (at max armor) and high mounts will be reasonably competitive; and that they're afraid of the reaction that the "nerf the piranha" crowd will have because of it. They've been berated too much, by certain facets of the community, to stick to their old guns on trying to keep all weight classes truly competitive. The coming months won't be a deciding factor . . . the real question is "How long can PGI hold out vs. how much pressure is put on them by the community?"

It's 5 tons of pod space, not 4.5.

As for competitivity, I think it's almost guaranteed that the Dasher will be at least a peg or two lower on the pecking order than the Fishbot. Those arm mounts might be high, but since they're mounted above the cockpit that extra height is basically nullified (since you always need to expose the cockpit anyways) and they are in a very vulnerable position to be shot off. And since almost all of the Dasher's weapons are mounted in those arms...the mech will be very easily disarmed similar to the MLX, ACH, and PIR.

Here's a spreadsheet for funzies:

[Sereglach]

FupDup, on 24 March 2019 - 02:43 PM, said:

It's 5 tons of pod space, not 4.5.

As for competitivity, I think it's almost guaranteed that the Dasher will be at least a peg or two lower on the pecking order than the Fishbot. Those arm mounts might be high, but since they're mounted above the cockpit that extra height is basically nullified (since you always need to expose the cockpit anyways) and they are in a very vulnerable position to be shot off. And since almost all of the Dasher's weapons are mounted in those arms...the mech will be very easily disarmed similar to the MLX, ACH, and PIR.

Here's a spreadsheet for funzies:

5 Tons? Hmm, looking at it in SSW I figured 4.5, guess my math was a little off . . . of course that was efficient maximum armor with 2 points wasted. Are you shaving off that half ton to make it even, or did I screw up the math elsewhere? As a side note on the table, though . . . the statements are out there, directly from Russ, speed is no longer an issue in MWO for HSR.

Regardless, I'm not saying it'd be superior to the Piranha, I'm just saying it'd be another competitive light . . . which would of course result in screaming and eventual nerfs. That's the source of my frustration and reason for the rant. It's happened every time a light starts to become reasonably competitive. You can't make a class of mech less competitive than the others when everyone only gets one life with their one mech.

Anyway, as for arm position, that'd really depend on Alex's interpretation and creation of MWO styled artwork. After all, there are some versions of the mech and artwork where the arms are like the thing is trying to drive a motorcycle with ape-hangar handlebars, and others where the arms don't go too far above the top of the mech. I'd say my mini is somewhere in the middle . . . the forearms are only slightly above the top of the mech (and it's an early-gen Ral Partha "Partha Plastics" and Pewter hybrid). Of course, the cockpit position will be equally important, whether it's more centered on the torso or raised up closer to the top; and there are variations in that artwork as well.

One way or the other, I'd really like to see Alex's interpretations of the Fire Moth/Dasher in MWO style. It's a mech PGI should have done long ago, when speed no longer became an issue. They just need to work up the guts to do it.

[TheArisen]

Odanan, on 24 March 2019 - 02:25 AM, said:

So be it.

• April: Fire Falcon (Clan light)
  
• May: Wasp (IS light)
  
• June: Hellhound (Clan medium)
  
• July: Dragon Fire (IS heavy)
  
• August: Stone Rhino (Clan assault)

Decent list there.

Edited by TheArisen, 24 March 2019 - 09:07 PM.

[jjm1]

Sereglach, on 24 March 2019 - 07:47 PM, said:

5 Tons? Hmm, looking at it in SSW I figured 4.5, guess my math was a little off . . . of course that was efficient maximum armor with 2 points wasted. Are you shaving off that half ton to make it even, or did I screw up the math elsewhere? As a side note on the table, though . . . the statements are out there, directly from Russ, speed is no longer an issue in MWO for HSR.

Regardless, I'm not saying it'd be superior to the Piranha, I'm just saying it'd be another competitive light . . . which would of course result in screaming and eventual nerfs. That's the source of my frustration and reason for the rant. It's happened every time a light starts to become reasonably competitive. You can't make a class of mech less competitive than the others when everyone only gets one life with their one mech.

Anyway, as for arm position, that'd really depend on Alex's interpretation and creation of MWO styled artwork. After all, there are some versions of the mech and artwork where the arms are like the thing is trying to drive a motorcycle with ape-hangar handlebars, and others where the arms don't go too far above the top of the mech. I'd say my mini is somewhere in the middle . . . the forearms are only slightly above the top of the mech (and it's an early-gen Ral Partha "Partha Plastics" and Pewter hybrid). Of course, the cockpit position will be equally important, whether it's more centered on the torso or raised up closer to the top; and there are variations in that artwork as well.

One way or the other, I'd really like to see Alex's interpretations of the Fire Moth/Dasher in MWO style. It's a mech PGI should have done long ago, when speed no longer became an issue. They just need to work up the guts to do it.

Usually I'm an advocate for reinterpreting the original TRO art, but the poor Firemoth got hit so hard with the ugly stick it might not be salvageable. Would be a great blank page project if the community would allow that.

[TheArisen]

jjm1, on 24 March 2019 - 10:33 PM, said:

Usually I'm an advocate for reinterpreting the original TRO art, but the poor Firemoth got hit so hard with the ugly stick it might not be salvageable. Would be a great blank page project if the community would allow that.

Haha I bet you could pull it off jjm

[FupDup]

Sereglach, on 24 March 2019 - 07:47 PM, said:

5 Tons? Hmm, looking at it in SSW I figured 4.5, guess my math was a little off . . . of course that was efficient maximum armor with 2 points wasted. Are you shaving off that half ton to make it even, or did I screw up the math elsewhere?

On SSW you might have used an IS mech instead of a Clan mech, which would cause FF armor to cost more tonnage.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Sereglach, on 24 March 2019 - 07:47 PM, said:

One way or the other, I'd really like to see Alex's interpretations of the Fire Moth/Dasher in MWO style. It's a mech PGI should have done long ago, when speed no longer became an issue. They just need to work up the guts to do it.

Probably wouldn't be that hard to make for MW:O since Odanan made the Firemoth using in game assets already. I think this is an heavily modified edit of the Mist Lynx.

Edited by Arnold The Governator, 25 March 2019 - 09:31 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Arnold The Governator, on 25 March 2019 - 09:29 AM, said:

Probably wouldn't be that hard to make for MW:O since Odanan made the Firemoth using in game assets already. I think this is an heavily modified edit of the Mist Lynx.

I like that interpretation, it looks good and very close to the source material.

[Odanan]

Arnold The Governator, on 25 March 2019 - 09:29 AM, said:

Probably wouldn't be that hard to make for MW:O since Odanan made the Firemoth using in game assets already. I think this is an heavily modified edit of the Mist Lynx.

Wow, that old stuff! Where did you find it?

(BTW, I would make the cockpit closer to the original concept art today)

jjm1, on 24 March 2019 - 10:33 PM, said:

Usually I'm an advocate for reinterpreting the original TRO art, but the poor Firemoth got hit so hard with the ugly stick it might not be salvageable. Would be a great blank page project if the community would allow that.

I did this concept art (and I'm not proud of it). Please, do your magic. (remember it's lower half is identical to the Mist Lynx')

[Sereglach]

FupDup, on 25 March 2019 - 02:50 AM, said:

On SSW you might have used an IS mech instead of a Clan mech, which would cause FF armor to cost more tonnage.

I think that might be what I did. Thanks for pointing that out. I had two SSW windows running, one for the Dasher, and the other as a generic 20 tonner to max out armor. I probably forgot to swap the generic 20 tonner over to clan tech.

Edited by Sereglach, 25 March 2019 - 04:41 PM.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Odanan, on 25 March 2019 - 12:06 PM, said:

Wow, that old stuff! Where did you find it?

(BTW, I would make the cockpit closer to the original concept art today)

Easy google search

[Bishop Steiner]

eh, call me a maverick. For next clanner I want either a Crossbow, or this silly lil 40 tonner

[FLG 01]

Battle Cobra?
Could be the first Clan and IS OmniMech. Though it would not be my first choice for an IS Omni, it could work.

[Sereglach]

Battle Cobra could be a nice addition. I actually like the mech in TT (especially the IS "F" config, go figure). However, I think we need to get IS Omni's introduced, first. After that, then they can turn around and do a Battle Cobra pack that's not unlike how they did the Arctic Wolf . . . only half IS and half Clan variants instead of half battlemech and half omnimech. Although it'd probably end up more like a Charger/Hatamoto pack since people would likely want a clan and IS (S) variant; and you'd need to populate both factions with enough variants to give omni-pod differentiation.

Once we get an IS Omni intro-pack of chassis, then I'm all for adding the Battle Cobra. We're just not there, yet. I'm guessing IS Omnis will come out when we get a MW5 expansion pack (or MW6?) that'll push the single-player timeline into the 3060's.

Edited by Sereglach, 29 March 2019 - 08:50 PM.

[Odanan]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 March 2019 - 09:48 AM, said:

eh, call me a maverick. For next clanner I want either a Crossbow, or this silly lil 40 tonner

Well, this is a freaking cool Crossbow.

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 29 March 2019 - 11:48 AM, said:

Well, this is a freaking cool Crossbow.

It's a Battle Cobra