399 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

Saiphas Cain, on 08 January 2015 - 08:56 AM, said:

We're actually already over the 9S in my unit. We ran it for a few days, and it worked well, but the massed 9S drops posed a monolithic defense that didn't cope well with light rushes and once we got into facepunch range really suffered. We still use them, sure, but not as a massed firing line like we used to. The meta, I believe, has already moved on.

Also, if you think the TDR-9S is nasty, I invite you to step in front of my CTF-4X.

Knee cannons != cockpit cannons.

Better heat, but ammo hungry.

[Ace Selin]

Clans have the advantage at range with longer range weapons, at close in brawling with their XL engines and higher damage builds, and still have to QQ about one mech that can put out some long range damage but needs to worry about overheating if firing 3xPPC more than twice in a row & that up close gets mauled by Clan mediums. LOL.

In further news Clans have yet to invent the ER PPC for themselves.

Edited by Ace Selin, 08 January 2015 - 09:22 AM.

[Saiphas Cain]

Davoke, on 06 January 2015 - 06:36 PM, said:

Taking a contract with the Clans was a terrible idea. The total non-canonicity of it is being punished by a terror filled reign of Thunderbolts equipped with ERPPC's. Everywhere. Gone are the days of hope for CW, gone is the fun. Now, we just have these ERPPC wielding maniacs running around, spotting for missile barrages while calling in artillery support. I lovingly pet my Daishi and tell it not to cry as we come in hot for the assault drop. It'll be over soon, too soon.

I'm just gonna leave this here.

Cannon... so... you want reams of fights with outdated, cobbled together from parts and douct tape IS mechs to fight instead?
You're giving up your jumpjets and focus fire because they're dishonoraboo?
You'd rather bid down to 10 or 9 mechs for a drop?

[Mr Beefy]

operatorZ, on 08 January 2015 - 08:50 AM, said:

I am not advocating that we all run around in adders with no armor and flamers.... as some will exaggerate any discussion of balance into...

although we would find out who the best, no armor, adder pilot is

Diversity in mech choice and loadout are a huge component to the fun factor of this game...IMHO

Seeing teams of just TBR's and SCR's vs. TRD's is not diversity...I understand that the units and comp. teams have a little bit different take on this ....that's cool...you all want to run the same mech...go for it

and to avoid power creep...only buffing mechs for balance creates problems...or quirking

I am not claiming you are advocating such things..... but this is where it can lead to, and most often does lead to. It has PGI chasing its tail.... it fills the forums up with nerf this and that threads.

Maybe I am just of a different breed, when I see a mech or a line of the same mechs being used by anyone, comp players or newbies... and they are stomping my team into the ground, I don't come to the forums to start a thread for a nerf. It could take hours in ones day to complain about it, and ask, beg, cry for nerfs. I try to find ways to counter such players, and if I find a way to do it, I try to get my team to follow suit and pound the other teams "golden goose" so hard, that they will start to not want to bring it on the field any longer, or not in such high amounts. This same thing happened when clans first came out for cash only and I was only playing IS mechs vs. Clans. While many complained they needed nerfed bad, and claimed they was OP, I was in game finding ways to stomp them just as hard. I would win some, and I would lose some...but never wanted clans to be nerfed, or felt they needed to be. Its called a challenge, and I rise to it every time I drop, even if I am the underdog.

Edited by Mr Beefy, 08 January 2015 - 09:37 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Ace Selin, on 08 January 2015 - 09:21 AM, said:

Clans have the advantage at range with longer range weapons, at close in brawling with their XL engines and higher damage builds, and still have to QQ about one mech that can put out some long range damage but needs to worry about overheating if firing 3xPPC more than twice in a row & that up close gets mauled by Clan mediums. LOL.

In further news Clans have yet to invent the ER PPC for themselves.

Or can fire over 140 damage before overheating? All potentially on the same panel.

That hurts quite a bit. Of course, most pilots aren't so incompetent to allow that to happen to themselves.

If you only take two ERPPCs, you can get nearly 300 damage before needing to release the trigger. 28 last I checked on Forest Colony (not snow) with 20 DHS on an elited 9S. That's not very much firepower. Impressive sustained fire, though. Most mechs can't get 200 before hitting the cap, let alone with a 800M range.

I'll have to check tri or quad cERLL builds tonight and see how those compare heat wise, before hitting the heat cap.
Objective comparisons are important/

Edited by Mcgral18, 08 January 2015 - 09:43 AM.

[Aethon]

Roadbeer, on 06 January 2015 - 09:15 PM, said:

The reason Lords field 8+ at a time is because YOU haven't figured out how to defeat it. That drop deck is virtually unseen in IS vs IS combat, and the Clans are supposed to be OP.

So what's that tell you?

That is just it, though; the Clans are NOT OP. Supposed to be in 1v1? Yes. Actually implemented that way in MWO? No.

The Clans have been nerfed to hell and back, because the IS pilots wanted to be on even footing with a Clan mech of the same weight class. I have explained the chain of problems with the Clan omnis that prevent their being OP in another thread; it boils down to really low/wide weapon hardpoints, being stuck with gigantic engines and tons of heatsinks/jump jets/random bits of fixed structure/armor here and there that prevent our using the weapons we often want to. We also have really long duration lasers that make it damned near impossible to actually put most of that damage all in the same place. Then you have the heat problem; when the fight gets close (and it typically does), we have all kinds of heat problems, due to having to field energy-heavy loadouts on most mechs.

[Basilisk222]

Saiphas Cain, on 08 January 2015 - 08:56 AM, said:

We're actually already over the 9S in my unit. We ran it for a few days, and it worked well, but the massed 9S drops posed a monolithic defense that didn't cope well with light rushes and once we got into facepunch range really suffered. We still use them, sure, but not as a massed firing line like we used to. The meta, I believe, has already moved on.

Also, if you think the TDR-9S is nasty, I invite you to step in front of my CTF-4X.

After running cataphracts for a long time, here's my answer.

Not.
Even.
Once.

[Duvanor]

Ace Selin, on 08 January 2015 - 09:21 AM, said:

Clans have the advantage at range with longer range weapons, at close in brawling with their XL engines and higher damage builds, and still have to QQ about one mech that can put out some long range damage but needs to worry about overheating if firing 3xPPC more than twice in a row & that up close gets mauled by Clan mediums. LOL.

In further news Clans have yet to invent the ER PPC for themselves.

I am using ER PPCs on my Hellbringer in nearly every CW match. But despite my Clan XL Engine that fully mastered Mech overheats much quicker then the IS Thunderbolts. My PPC Projectiles are slower and the weapons need longer to reload. I do not expect easy mode. PGI said, Clans and IS should be equal and in a PvP game I agree with that. But what we got now is not really equal.

Not to mention we can not light rush as suggested above with the Clans light Mechs.

On the other hand I think the main problem is Boreal, specifically opening the gates there. If you want to open them, you can not stay in cover. A good team with Thunderbolts kills half a wave before they get through the gates. And yes, that works for Clan defenders too. A good reason to fix that map for good.

[Aethon]

Kilgorin Strom, on 08 January 2015 - 08:18 AM, said:

I'm truly upset at my fellow clansmen who are complaining.

the 9s is a SNIPER platform.

Here's a pro tip:

Duck.

Do not engage an enemy at a range where his kit is better than yours. It's pretty basic. If you're forced to, lock and do as much as you can before you die. Let your team know where thunders are after that.

It's quirks make it a PPC machine gun, STOP STANDING IN FRONT OF THE MACHINE GUN.

It's really not hard.

Individual 9S's are not a problem. Even a couple are not that bad. When the enemy fields a crapload of them in the same wave, however, ducking does no good. You end up doing one of two things: Dying, or sitting behind cover, doing nothing. The ricockulous number of these things being spammed is the real problem, IMHO.

Boreal is really the worst, here, as you end up taking fire from two angles, and finding *useful* cover becomes an exercise in digging a hole and sitting in it until the inside of the base is full of Thunderbolts.

They are not much easier to kill at close range, either, with their rate of fire and lack of heat issues.

Edited by Aethon, 08 January 2015 - 10:00 AM.

[Kin3ticX]

Its not that the 9S is overpowered. I think 50% quirks just make one mech potentially stand out too much.

[Necromonger Commander]

I have never seen one of these TDR slaughterfests. Does anyone have a video...or screen shot....or anything other than "a friend of mine got shot by a magical god mech playing CW". Paste links below....

[Podex]

I saw someone try using one last night on the Marik/Davion front. It was pretty useless. The ac5 Dragon on the team tore me up, though.

[_Comrade_]

JFP dropped in a 12 man yesterday and some Steiner pilot got two headshots (both pilots killed!) on our pilots with TBolt ppc of course, our mighty superior clan mechs trembled and hide in fear because PGI wants to throw lore out the window make IS mechs just as powerful so the IS players don't QQ

Edited by Grimwill, 08 January 2015 - 10:22 AM.

[Mr Beefy]

Necromonger Commander, on 08 January 2015 - 10:11 AM, said:

I have never seen one of these TDR slaughterfests. Does anyone have a video...or screen shot....or anything other than "a friend of mine got shot by a magical god mech playing CW". Paste links below....

I have seen a few.... and it boils down to you have to break line of sight and close on them. We have a poster above saying it doesn't matter if you close on them, because of the almighty none heat issue. I pilot Thunderbolts on my IS account, they are elite and almost to master. They have the X2 bonus and I am using the ERppc cool down level 5. They will overheat even on cold maps if you close on them and make them brawl. The key is to rush them to close in on them using cover if you can, if not, your team has to be committed to rushing them, closing in on them, can't find cover? Torso twist, jump, don't run in straight lines, zig zag.... what ever it takes, but close in on them, find cover, flank them, hit them from all sides, they will go down. Its when you have some staying out in the open, not torso twisting, giving them the same spot to shoot at or the same mech to hit every time you are screwed... Just like any other weapon system a enemy uses.

Even in games that I have played against 7-12 man comps, if even just 6 players are aware of how to use this tactic to focus on the mighty thunder gods with their ERppc spam, it becomes a close game instead of a stomp. It really is that simple.

[Bellum Dominum]

shrug if people weren't crying about the 9S and it's ER PPC's then they'd be crying about the direwolf with 2 ER PPC's and 2 GUASS (which by the way does much more damage and is every bit as heat manageable if not more). I know! NERF THE CAT A1! no other mech can compete with it's lrm spammage.... OPPS there's the Maddog now... hrmmm... NERF kitfox's! 3 ams is OP!

lmao....

[dezgra]

I just finished a 12 pack. I know you all wish you could be me. How about we buff a few more mechs with quirks, and turn this game into something other than a generic, pastel, goob fest. I mean, even "super smash brothers" has OP characters. I believe that with a little time and practice a counter to every "OP whatever:" can be discovered. Is not the idea of discovery the
driving force for the modern world? OOOHHH my head hurts. I love you all so much!

[Basilisk222]

Necromonger Commander, on 08 January 2015 - 10:11 AM, said:

I have never seen one of these TDR slaughterfests. Does anyone have a video...or screen shot....or anything other than "a friend of mine got shot by a magical god mech playing CW". Paste links below....

I don't have a link but basically this is how this works:

4-5 TDR's camp defense waiting in front of gate. When mechs become visible - PPC's get fired usually chained into anything that moves, with really no heat penalty, and since MOST players will get struck and duck back behind cover, the TDR slugfest claims many, also, since so many ppc's fly at you, usually you lose a component in 1/2 a second.

Course this is pretty much constrained to boreal as I've NEVER had it happen on the other map, at least not with as much success.

Not complaining, just stating strategy.

EDIT: Screenshot:

Edited by Kilgorin Strom, 08 January 2015 - 11:04 AM.

[Almond Brown]

It is not the Mech per say, it is the Quirk specific to the erPPC + Pilot Skills + Modules. If they were to reduce the 2 big ones, Quirk - erPPC Heat -25% and Energy Heat -25% to more reasonable values things would quickly resolve themselves.

Lots of Mechs can carry 3 erPPC's but don't and for obvious reasons, perfectly good reason.

Just as a tease, the 3 x erPPC 9S gets to Alpha every 2.52s at an Optimal Range of 891m with a Heat savings of 37.5 points every trigger pull.

So instead of 3 x 15H (+18.9H GH) per, the 9S generates only 26.4H per Alpha with Modules, Quirked and not including the Elite Pilot Skills, (minus the +7.5% Dissipation and +10% Threshold - value fluctuates to much based on Heat Sinks applied).

Your Maths may vary.

Edited by Almond Brown, 08 January 2015 - 11:07 AM.

[Martis Gradivus]

HAV0C, on 08 January 2015 - 01:52 AM, said:

P.S. Hope the Clans can organize better, the last seven drops I've had in Community Warfare since Monday with DHB were all against Clan opponents (Both attacking and defending on both available CW maps) and all resulted in wins for the I.S. side. NONE of these drops were against ghost opponents too, I'll mention. Up your game fellas. Up your game.

I'd have said the same to you about how we were steamrolling IS, but it was due to our OP equipment and mechs, nothing more. So with that logic, you winning all those games means YOUR equipment and mechs are OP and require a nerf to balance out.

/sarcasm off

[Podex]

Kilgorin Strom, on 08 January 2015 - 10:57 AM, said:

4-5 TDR's camp defense waiting in front of gate. When mechs become visible - PPC's get fired usually chained into anything that moves

No nerf needed. Just go out the other gate.