315 replies to this topic

[Ophidian]

If we have to have clan mechs that are inherently better than IS mechs (higher heat really wasn't that big of a deal in previous games, or at least not enough to offset the obvious advantages), could we automatically lump them into a single side....and have the IS side simply outnumber them?

That's usually how it works out anyway in TT. A binary of clanners vs a company of spheroids.

(edit: Ok, not the first to come up with that apparently)

Edited by Ophidian, 28 June 2012 - 08:25 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

man I may redownload my dawn of war 1 games now lol

[Blue Shadow]

Gravaar, on 28 June 2012 - 05:19 PM, said:

Maybe the DEVs will use the Battle Value (BV) system to balance up the fights
Sarna places the Madcat at 2252
The Atlas is 1557 and Hunchback is 851
Using BV every madcat should be facing an Atlas with backup

Every time I read through a Clan vs IS thread someone talks about this BV system and it tends to get ignored it seems... I don't know why, it sounds like a perfect way to balance things. Combine it with a slight numbers advantage for IS - two Stars vs three Lances and the IS have their numbers advantage and the clans have their honor fighting heavier mechs thanks to the BV system as Gravaar suggested.

Everyone looks at this topic from the IS point of view but just for a moment look at it as a Clanner - your outnumbered, your generally going up against heavier mechs because your trying to achieve your goal with the least amount of resources via the bidding system (effectually the BV system) and your going to be glade you have that advanced tech to even things out. You'll still have the advantage 1 vs 1 in the same weight class but the IS wont play those tactics will they ;-)

[Jess Hazen]

i like zellbrigen too just its going to be damn near impossible to account for it in what is a very fast paced game.

[Alexander Diaz]

Ophidian, on 28 June 2012 - 08:22 PM, said:

If we have to have clan mechs that are inherently better than IS mechs (higher heat really wasn't that big of a deal in previous games, or at least not enough to offset the obvious advantages), could we automatically lump them into a single side....and have the IS side simply outnumber them?

That's usually how it works out anyway in TT. A binary of clanners vs a company of spheroids.

(edit: Ok, not the first to come up with that apparently)

Neg. In TT, it's a Company vs a Star. 12 v 5. Makes Clanners use range advantage.

Testing needs to show how this works in MW.

[Assault One]

One company (three lances) of IS mechs versus two stars of Clan mechs would be perfect I think. It gives the IS an advantage yet it would not be insurmountable for the Clan force.

[Fastred]

Greyrook, on 28 June 2012 - 04:37 PM, said:

Clan tech isn't literally "more powerful." Generally it is lighter, so you can fit more of it on the same tonnage mech, and has a longer range (e.g. ER lasers are usually a ton lighter and 100m increased range). But whenever there's a damage increase, it comes with a heat increase that is usually proportional to IS tech (at least if it is similar to how it was in MW4). IS does have lore-friendly competitive solutions like heavy lasers and other stuff. I wouldn't worry too much about it, or demand everything be flat equal.

Actually clan tech is better in every way including being more powerful
just as an example the clan ER Large Laser did 25% more damage than its inner sphere counter part, had almost 31.5% percent longer range, weighed 20 percent less and required half the critical slots.

While clan ER Large laser did equal damage to the Inner Sphere ER PPC and had a range advantage of almost 9 percent, producing 25% less heat, weighing roughly 60 percent the weight and required one third of the critical slots.

If you look at the Clan ER PPC it produced 50% more damage than its Inner Sphere equivalent as well as being lighter and more compact even their machine guns were magically superior..

So yes the clan equipment was more powerful, weighed less, has longer ranged. Couple that with more efficient heat sinks and nothing the Inner Sphere had could stand up to it and these comparisons were against the most advanced advance Inner Sphere tech not the equipment that was still in common usage in 3050 by the majority of mech formations in the Inner Sphere.

i.e. the same gear that was fielded but everyone prior to the Grey Death Legions broadcast of the datacore recovered from the Castle Brian in Marik space.

[Alexander Diaz]

Alexander Diaz, on 28 June 2012 - 09:39 PM, said:

Neg. In TT, it's a Company vs a Star. 12 v 5. Makes Clanners use range advantage.

Testing needs to show how this works in MW.

For those not in the know, that's IS 12 mechs vs 5 Clan mechs.

Yes, clan is that OP, especially in Zell conditions.

[Name140704]

Whoah what's a clan 'mech?!?!? This is 3049 right?

[Gais Tramilious]

A clan Invasion would be awsome. I they made it so only clan mechs on one side and IS on the other, Epic! But I like the idea that the clanners could have a slight numarical disadvantage. I think that would sort things out. I say, Bring Them ON!

Ps...
I would love to pilot a Blood Asp

[Tarellond]

Lightdragon, on 28 June 2012 - 04:32 PM, said:

...or we could just not have clans, all the clans attract is people with god complexes, horrible roleplayers, and ignorant noobs that dont even bother to read up on the history of the bt universe

I believe, my good sir, that you just described most of the Davion players.
No offence, though. Handeling stereotypes is allways a tricky job.

[Wolfman0503]

Clan Weapons and Mechs are lighter,faster, Do more damage the IS stuff sorry but it's the was Fasa made them.

[Alexander Diaz]

Gais Tramilious, on 28 June 2012 - 10:13 PM, said:

A clan Invasion would be awsome. I they made it so only clan mechs on one side and IS on the other, Epic! But I like the idea that the clanners could have a slight numarical disadvantage. I think that would sort things out. I say, Bring Them ON!

Ps...
I would love to pilot a Blood Asp

Whats slight about 12 vs 5?

Clan tech is the player vs zombie.

CoD vs Reality.

Balanced Numbers still need to be play tested.

[Alexander Diaz]

NARCoMAN, on 28 June 2012 - 09:44 PM, said:

Whoah what's a clan 'mech?!?!? This is 3049 right?

I dont know!

Is some one talking about online play?

[QuantumStorm]

It's really simple.

Clan mechs are far superior. It is just in a clan vs is engagement the IS feilds the usual 15, and the clans feild 5.

Strike a balance tech wise there and let people decide if the want uber powered mechs and long *** que times for games or weaker mechs and faster games

[Voyager I]

Assuming IS players don't have access to Clan tech, a Binary vs a Company would still be a massacre if the Clan values are anything like tabletop. We're talking mechs that are superior in nearly every measurable statistic, often by enormous margins.

[StealthSlicer]

Rejarial Galatan, on 28 June 2012 - 04:51 PM, said:

Balancing Clan 'Mechs and technology item for item and 'Mech for 'Mech is a good way to upset a lot of players. Making them a non player faction would be the straw that breaks the camels back. Doing anything less than staying true to canon and lore and not giving those of us the ability to play or charging us more to field or repair clan machina is going to cause a lot of players to leave the game. I am sorry if this offends the die hard IS players but you ask more than is reasoable when you say we clanners need to be dumbed down in the name of balance or demand we pay more to play how we want. We do not ask this of you, why ask it of us?

*Claps* I think we can all agree you've got it right there.

My thoughts: The devs WILL have a plan for this because Clan vs IS is one of the biggest topics possible so they would have planned ahead. I say just wait and let the devs work their magic and we'll see what they come up with before we start asking for other things or changes. Everyone needs to remember we have no idea how/if the Clans will be implemented (However it's more than likely they will be.) and so why are we complaining about something we one have no information on and two haven’t even seen what the devs have planned?

Edited by StealthSlicer, 28 June 2012 - 10:44 PM.

[Insidious Johnson]

Clans will need to be ABOVE par, mech to mech, to handle most mercenary units. IF there is salvage, clan tech should be a hard fought trophy, not a common drop ( like the sound most clanners make on impact with the ground ).

Edited by Insidious Johnson, 28 June 2012 - 10:46 PM.

[Tyrgrim]

Its a tough nut to crack, and I'd be surprised if the dev's aren't already brainstorming about it.

I have no golden solution, Canon-wise I want the Clans to be superior in tech, and fun-wise I want playbalance.

If this could be implemented, or at least assisted by zellbrigen, I think that solution would be most elegant.

What if Clan's only get money and killstats for mech's taken out according to zellbrigen?

That would surely encourage all the clanners to fight "duelling" style, while the IS focus on teamwork.

[Xune]

When ever 2 CLan mechs shoot the same target the whole Clan team gets 0 Exp/0 C-bills and get ther mechs taken away for becoming dezgra easy as that