203 replies to this topic

[B L O O D W I T C H]

ChapeL, on 18 April 2015 - 12:24 PM, said:

how do we avoid having to bring down superior designs ( of which the Timber Wolf is an example ) so that less effective ones remain competitive ? How thick would we have to lay on the quirks for a Trebuchet to hold its own against an Uziel ( or nerf the latter to get the same result ) ?

They shouldn't. superior mechs should be superior and inferior mechs should be inferior.
CW should have it's own rules and it's own currency. no unlimited amounts of direwolfs and timbertards, as well as no unlimited amounts of ultra customized stalkers and tbolts.

rebuilding a single IS mech from the very core, including the engine, heatsinks hell even the whole sceleton is something which should take years, besides stupidly expensive (a single heavy/assault serves centuries and is worth more then one or the other aggraculture planets) yet the vast majority of the inner sphere is driving nothing else.

limited resources is what CW would need, but meh, to hard to code so deal with it.

[Mcgral18]

Torgun, on 18 April 2015 - 12:35 PM, said:

But still a 90t mech does have considerably more armor than the TDR, so I don't think it's that close in being able to absorb damage.

No...no it did not.

IS+A accounts for both ARMOUR and STRUCTURE.

It had 4 more IS+A than the Thud. Presently has 15 more.

The armour difference is 16.

Pjwned, on 18 April 2015 - 12:35 PM, said:

Doesn't change that cXL engines are unbalanced on any mech and that PGI plainly acknowledges the heat penalty doesn't do anything. It's also a better method than picking & choosing mechs and thinking about how best to nerf them with arbitrary methods.

Then you had damned well better let the Terribad clams not be Terribad.


Give Mr Gargles a nerfed XL375, let him have Endo, and let him have 31 tons of guns, up from 20.
Or blanket nerf him and keep him absolutely useless.

[Lightfoot]

Chuck YeaGurr, on 18 April 2015 - 12:16 PM, said:

Hellbringer - 4 high mount lasers 2 high mount ACs
Atlas - 0 high mount energy or acs

I think that for every 1 point of extra armor the atlas takes an extra 2 plus points of damage compared to the weapon placement on the hellbringer. An atlas with a 350 engine is a monster in a brawl, but the extra range of cERmlas and cMPlas makes it harder for IS brawl builds to get in their optimal range before the game is won or lost. Yes teamwork will always change this, but most mechs do not get 3-6 players on VOIP doing what I want them to.

That's the problem with any 100 ton Assault, it almost has to be that way because they have so much armor. Atlas is the toughest mech. Smallest CT of them all, excellent armor, decent weapons, but you have to mix them up. Atlas is well done. The Hellbringer is easy to kill for a heavy. My point is each mech is not equally aquitted. It's up to the player to use what they are given by the mech to win the game or pick a mech that will do what they want. It's not up to PGI to make them all equally attributed.

So the Atlas can take a lot of damage and give their team time to kill the other team. That is the rarest of mech strengths really, but it is hard to get the balance right so you don't get destroyed. Assault mechs are all primary targets because they can carry a team or lose the match. Put that AMS on them. Losing the Gauss Rifle's canon ability to shoot from the hip really hurt the Atlas.

[XX Sulla XX]

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Smurfy doesn't take quirks into account.

I understand that. Thats why I said they "START" at those numbers. And why I mentioned the quirk.

[Torgun]

Mcgral18, on 18 April 2015 - 12:37 PM, said:

No...no it did not.

IS+A accounts for both ARMOUR and STRUCTURE.

It had 4 more IS+A than the Thud. Presently has 15 more.

The armour difference is 16.

Are you talking just about side torsos? Since we were discussing about ability to tank I thought you were talking about the whole torso, at which point there is a considerable difference.

[Slow and Decrepit]

How about we first fix the mechs that were nerfed first and STILL haven't been fixed! Give the Victor and the Highlander their mobility in the air back! Just follow Bishop Steiner's plan for the JJed mechs. I grow tired of hearing how this or that is so op because it can be good at most everything. You could at one time put the above two IS mech's into the same category. I see the forum crowd still hasn't learned from the Victor/Highlander nerfing! Oh just a little here and just a small amount here. See there you go, it's fixed! No more OP.

Edited by beleneagle, 18 April 2015 - 01:36 PM.

[Slow and Decrepit]

I suspect that PGI must have lost quite a few gamers when they did the Victor/Highlander nerfs, and some more with the forced fixed JJ's on the Timbers. I believe that's why they are in no rush to do anymore nerfs per say....

[CocoaJin]

XX Sulla XX, on 18 April 2015 - 10:45 AM, said:

I think your missing why people want changes. The comp players and higher Elo players all bring the best mechs. So on the higher end of the game every one is running the same mechs. People would like for more mechs to be viable than just a few.

Variable rewards/operating costs. Any mech that is being used in high numbers would have additional real world costs/liabilities associated with it, especially in respect to parts. Reduce rewards(including LP...even have them cost LP to use maybe...that might even mean no LP for the match) for using these mechs to reflect higher operating costs and demand on logistics for the faction to supply these parts. In addition, perhaps we can have them count as extra tonnage toward one's drop deck. These features mean they aren't more expensive to acquire...they are just a high reward trade-off to use.

This provides a mechanic to encourage the use of other mech chassises...there would be some encouragement to cycle these chassises in and out of drop-decks periodically.

[Pjwned]

Mcgral18, on 18 April 2015 - 12:37 PM, said:

Then you had damned well better let the Terribad clams not be Terribad.


Give Mr Gargles a nerfed XL375, let him have Endo, and let him have 31 tons of guns, up from 20.
Or blanket nerf him and keep him absolutely useless.

Sure, I'm not arguing to leave low tier clan mechs in bad shape. There might be differences in opinion on how to achieve that, but I agree that nerfing mechs that are already not that great and then giving them the finger instead of buffing them a bit in other ways--that's a bad idea.

beleneagle, on 18 April 2015 - 01:35 PM, said:

How about we first fix the mechs that were nerfed first and STILL haven't been fixed! Give the Victor and the Highlander their mobility in the air back! Just follow Bishop Steiner's plan for the JJed mechs. I grow tired of hearing how this or that is so op because it can be good at most everything. You could at one time put the above two IS mech's into the same category. I see the forum crowd still hasn't learned from the Victor/Highlander nerfing! Oh just a little here and just a small amount here. See there you go, it's fixed! No more OP.

I just wanted to say that as much as people complain about about mechs like the Victor & Highlander with their terrible jumpjets (and I do agree they need to be better) the game is still in better shape than when the overly prevalent pop-tart meta dominated every match.

All PGI really needs to do is increase jumpjet thrust a bit, at the very least for assault mechs if not others as well, or alternatively change the design a bit and increase thrust a lot while increasing heat generation a lot as well; I like the former idea more personally.

[Slow and Decrepit]

Pjwned, on 18 April 2015 - 01:59 PM, said:

I just wanted to say that as much as people complain about about mechs like the Victor & Highlander with their terrible jumpjets (and I do agree they need to be better) the game is still in better shape than when the overly prevalent pop-tart meta dominated every match.

All PGI really needs to do is increase jumpjet thrust a bit, at the very least for assault mechs if not others as well, or alternatively change the design a bit and increase thrust a lot while increasing heat generation a lot as well; I like the former idea more personally.

I don't disagree about pop tarts. That said, they went way over the line. Just adding a little bit of boost WON'T fix a damn thing. They could turn and move while in the air! That is how the Victor spread damage to keep going. Without it, he has lost his durability! You people don't get it! I'm not saying to go back to pop tarting, just fix what didn't need to be fixed in the first place!

Edited by beleneagle, 18 April 2015 - 02:48 PM.

[XX Sulla XX]

Quote

How about we first fix the mechs that were nerfed first and STILL haven't been fixed! Give the Victor and the Highlander their mobility in the air back! Just follow Bishop Steiner's plan for the JJed mechs. I grow tired of hearing how this or that is so op because it can be good at most everything. You could at one time put the above two IS mech's into the same category. I see the forum crowd still hasn't learned from the Victor/Highlander nerfing! Oh just a little here and just a small amount here. See there you go, it's fixed! No more OP.

JJs will not fix the Victor is is undergunned now because of lack of hard points and using IS weapons. Although it would be more fun to pilot again.

Quote

I just wanted to say that as much as people complain about about mechs like the Victor & Highlander with their terrible jumpjets (and I do agree they need to be better) the game is still in better shape than when the overly prevalent pop-tart meta dominated every match.

All PGI really needs to do is increase jumpjet thrust a bit, at the very least for assault mechs if not others as well, or alternatively change the design a bit and increase thrust a lot while increasing heat generation a lot as well; I like the former idea more personally.

Sure not asking for the jump sniping meta back And yes you can fix jump jets and still control jump sniping with other mechanics.

Quote

I don't disagree about pop tarts. That said, they went way over the line. Just adding a little bit of boost WON'T fix a damn thing. They could turn and move while in the air! That is how the Victor spread damage to keep going. Without it, he has lost his durability! You people don't get it! I'm not saying to go back to pop tarting, just fix what didn't need to be fixed in the first place!

They were a lot more fun when they had a fast turn speed in the air and more thrust etc. --- Shoot Atlas ... jump over Atlas and spin in air.... shoot Atlas in the back

[Knyx]

Sure lol, you can add negative quirks to the TW and SCR... but only as soon as:

Stalker loses ALL added range quirks, and the - heat gen quirks are cut to 5% each

+

Tbolt is toned down as well

+

Jager is toned down

+

Firestarter is toned down

+

Summoner, Gargoyle, IFerret, Lynx are all buffed and clans get better ballistics

[XX Sulla XX]

Quote

Sure lol, you can add negative quirks to the TW and SCR... but only as soon as:

Stalker loses ALL added range quirks, and the - heat gen quirks are cut to 5% each

+

Tbolt is toned down as well

+

Jager is toned down

+

Firestarter is toned down

+

Summoner, Gargoyle, IFerret, Lynx are all buffed and clans get better ballistics

I have made other threads about balancing the mechs and fixing the outliers both at the top and bottom. So reviewing all mechs would be the best.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Stick your proposed nerf bat up your ***. The Timber, Stormcrow, and Dire are balanced. Other mechs are more op now compared to these 3 with quirks implemented. They are good all rounders and nothing more. Generic decency vs op quirked mechs.

Nerf the quirked mech's before you nerf these 3, they are the trouble makers now.

Edited by Alwrath, 18 April 2015 - 03:51 PM.

[XX Sulla XX]

Quote

Stick your proposed nerf bat up your ***. The Timber, Stormcrow, and Dire are balanced. Other mechs are more op now compared to these 3 with quirks implemented. They are good all rounders and nothing more. Generic decency vs op quirked mechs.

Nerf the quirked mech's before you nerf these 3, they are the trouble makers now.

OK what mechs should we nerf to bring them back inline?

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

XX Sulla XX, on 18 April 2015 - 03:54 PM, said:

OK what mechs should we nerf to bring them back inline?

If I had my way none of em, ill take on the op quirked IS mechs like I do everyday. Lets stop talking about nerfs and just play the damn game.

I didnt even care about the op TDR 9S before it was nerfed, I out traded it every time at 800+ meters with dual er large Gauss on a clan mech. It wasnt a big deal in CW. It was slightly op in pug matches but that was about it. Hell I out traded it in CW with my dual er large ice ferret, it couldent even hit me with its erppcs.

This game is 70% skill, 10% quirks, 10% alcohol, and 10% caffeine.

Edited by Alwrath, 18 April 2015 - 04:05 PM.

[XX Sulla XX]

Quote

If I had my way none of em, ill take on the op quirked IS mechs like I do everyday. Lets stop talking about nerfs and just play the damn game.

So what about fixing non viable mechs by giving them better quirks?

Edited by XX Sulla XX, 18 April 2015 - 04:10 PM.

[Pjwned]

beleneagle, on 18 April 2015 - 02:48 PM, said:

I don't disagree about pop tarts. That said, they went way over the line. Just adding a little bit of boost WON'T fix a damn thing. They could turn and move while in the air! That is how the Victor spread damage to keep going. Without it, he has lost his durability! You people don't get it! I'm not saying to go back to pop tarting, just fix what didn't need to be fixed in the first place!

No, that aspect of jumpjets was nerfed for a good reason and mechs do not need to be able to spin on a dime just because they're hovering in air. Jump capable mechs should not be able to spread damage any better than if they were on the ground, other than the fact that they're moving up and down anyways.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

XX Sulla XX, on 18 April 2015 - 04:00 PM, said:

So what about fixing no viable mechs by giving them better quirks?

Im all for it. Most mechs are already fixed though, and viable. Highlander and Victor need some love I think.

[XX Sulla XX]

Quote

Im all for it. Most mechs are already fixed though, and viable. Highlander and Victor need some love I think.

So I take it you do not agree with Gman listing most IS mechs as lower tiers? http://metamechs.com...-lists/is-list/
Or the mechs that are listed as viable for group drop? http://metamechs.com...sts/group-list/