1017 replies to this topic

[Tangelis]

Since CW was released I have participated in it on and off as part of a group and as a solo player. Generally I enjoy myself either way but yes, when dropping solo there is a tendency for our group to fall apart and much of that has to do with lack of experience and a group wide "let's wing it" mentality.

I must agree that with CW being the proverbial "End game" of MW:O that players should not be able to participate in it immediately. CW should have a criteria that needs to be met before being able to participate, but I don't think it needs to be extravagant.

From my experience though, solo players are not directly the issue. For example, during that last CW event (Hardcore 10 point thingy) and previous CW events as well there was a considerable increase in population. Many of the games I played were comprised of mainly solo players. Though we certainly didn't win all our games the quality of matches was much better, and even a lot of the games we lost were close.

CW needs help in many areas, but population and having an incentive to play are IMO the biggest. Currently, when solo's queue up for CW (mostly on defence) it makes the best of limited options. Which usually leads to a lop sided match over and over again. This doesn't tend to happen when the player pool triples. At least from my experience anyway.

So while I agree that solo players should have restrictions, I don't honestly believe they are as much of a problem as believed..... merely the easiest crowd to blame.

Edited by Tangelis, 09 August 2015 - 07:40 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

And so by trying to push this load of bull shine on us you instantly condemn teams of 11 people to not play CW, this king of crap, stalled the game for over a year in arena drops, lets not go there again

[IIIuminaughty]

Community warfare wouldn't be so bad if people just played as a team. your kills and damage will come if you play as a team. But clearly mechwarrior has nothing to do with team. game is ffa

[IIIuminaughty]

TWIAFU, on 09 August 2015 - 04:23 AM, said:

Just like the 4 man.

Then the 8 man.

Why did we progress from small size to large?

If 12man were shut down, why do we have 12mans now in two different queues?

Why do we have a game mode designed specifically for 12mans if they were shut down?

Why is our max group size 12 if 12mans were shut down?

Besides all that,m yea, 12mans were shut down.

he means premade 12 mans que

[Void Angel]

Armando, on 09 August 2015 - 01:33 AM, said:

Letting solo players que for community warfare is THE worst idea ever, not even close.

Bad for the communities of players (228, NS, Kcom, EmP, Lords, MS, etc).
Bad for the solo players (who can't put out 100 damage total using 4 mechs).

What PGI has done is take the solo que....give players 3 more mechs per drop, FORCED solo players to fight 12 mans groups, oh and lets not forget.....No ELO in CW either. Solo players have a solo que RIGHT NOW, TODAY....no groups allowed, and it HAS ELO.

Community Warfare is NOT fun for solo players, nothing will change that, I will say it again...NOTHING WILL CHANGE THAT...that is a fact, a plain and simple FACT.

Require being part of a team before someone can que for CW....THEN INCENTIVEISE (I like to make up words.) TEAM PLAY TO MAKE BEING PART OF A TEAM MEANINGFUL.

Give people a reason to join a team and THEY WILL join a team.

How can I say this politely... Hmm... Your position is nonsense - and yes, that was polite.

Your conclusions are not facts, and no amount of CAPITAL LETTERS will make them such. CW is not identical to the solo queue; it has a deeper tactical environment - what with the gates, turrets, and objectives - and is a different experience. Your vast overgeneralization that CW isn't fun for solo players is easily falsifiable; many of us - myself included - play CW without a 12-man team at times; and even in 12-mans you find a lot of PuG groups. More than you find 12-mans, really, but that's not even the biggest way you've embarrassed yourself.

If the assertion you've screamed about so loudly - that CW is not, and cannot ever be fun for solo players - then it follows that players should avoid this terrible unpleasantness and join a team, incentivized by the prospect of actually having fun, unlike their currently dreary prospects. Oh, wait! You said that there wasn't an incentive to join a team, didn't you? So they're just not joining teams, even though they have a reason to do so? But, didn't you wrap up your diatribe by saying that if people had a reason to join a team, they would join one? You can't harmonize these statements, because they are all contradictory; far from having simply reached a false conclusion, you have yet to demonstrate a coherent thought.

In short you're not even wrong - and you're certainly not right. If you can't even make up your own mind, why should anyone listen to you?


PS: "Incentivize" is already a word - you just misspelled it.

Edited by Void Angel, 09 August 2015 - 08:07 AM.

[BSK]

When reading most of the posts I wonder which part of COMMUNITY warfare these peope do not understand ..

[Rahul Roy]

OP is onto something.

I would add that besides being in a unit, being in a LFG should also allow you to participate in CW.

LFG is more or less a temporary 'unit'. You will probably have added some people as friends or be in a semi-active faction both of which imply you are a functioning member of community.

[MischiefSC]

I've posted on this topic a few times
I'll be merciful and just say that I disagree completely with op. It would kill cw for no reason.

[1453 R]

And people wonder where I get it, when I say that CW players are all a bunch of jackalopes who insist, loudly and with great passion, that solo players leave their precious Commodity Warfare alone.

You want it, buddy? You got it. I will continue to not ever play CW, and it will continue to have serious problems with population levels and unmanageable queue times in addition to being a bad game mode overall. See how long it lasts. And when it finally tanks, fails altogether, and needs to be scrapped and rebuilt, I will laugh, and laugh, and not feel even remotely bad.

You did, after all, bring it on yourselves.

Edited by 1453 R, 09 August 2015 - 12:36 PM.

[Livewyr]

1453 R, on 09 August 2015 - 12:35 PM, said:

And people wonder where I get it, when I say that CW players are all a bunch of jackalopes who insist, loudly and with great passion, that solo players leave their precious Commodity Warfare alone.

You want it, buddy? You got it. I will continue to not ever play CW, and it will continue to have serious problems with population levels and unmanageable queue times in addition to being a bad game mode overall. See how long it lasts. And when it finally tanks, fails altogether, and needs to be scrapped and rebuilt, I will laugh, and laugh, and not feel even remotely bad.

You did, after all, bring it on yourselves.

You do realize that it works the other way around, too, right?

http://mwomercs.com/...d-to-be-capped/

[MischiefSC]

If CW had something to offer for winning people would be more motivated to win. If it gave rewards for faction success people would be motivated to see their faction succeed. When it's just new game modes for pug queue play you get people playing it like the pug queue.

You should have a 'training missions' segment you need to play in CW. You need to understand that you need to play as part of your team (even when pugging). Some general guidelines are fine.

Most of us pug in CW though. I pug more than I drop in a pre-organized group when I play CW and I do fine. I play with pugs who do fine. We don't need to block people from playing unless they pre-organize into a group though. That would be stupid.

[Armando]

Void Angel, on 09 August 2015 - 08:03 AM, said:

How can I say this politely... Hmm... Your position is nonsense - and yes, that was polite.

Your conclusions are not facts, and no amount of CAPITAL LETTERS will make them such. CW is not identical to the solo queue; it has a deeper tactical environment - what with the gates, turrets, and objectives - and is a different experience. Your vast overgeneralization that CW isn't fun for solo players is easily falsifiable; many of us - myself included - play CW without a 12-man team at times; and even in 12-mans you find a lot of PuG groups. More than you find 12-mans, really, but that's not even the biggest way you've embarrassed yourself.

If the assertion you've screamed about so loudly - that CW is not, and cannot ever be fun for solo players - then it follows that players should avoid this terrible unpleasantness and join a team, incentivized by the prospect of actually having fun, unlike their currently dreary prospects. Oh, wait! You said that there wasn't an incentive to join a team, didn't you? So they're just not joining teams, even though they have a reason to do so? But, didn't you wrap up your diatribe by saying that if people had a reason to join a team, they would join one? You can't harmonize these statements, because they are all contradictory; far from having simply reached a false conclusion, you have yet to demonstrate a coherent thought.

In short you're not even wrong - and you're certainly not right. If you can't even make up your own mind, why should anyone listen to you?


PS: "Incentivize" is already a word - you just misspelled it.

Lets start with your assertion that "CW is not identical to the solo queue", never said it...in FACT I said the opposite.

In Solo que, there are no groups allowed.
In Solo que, there is ELO.

Neither of these are present in CW.

There is nothing in place to keep a solo player from facing a 12 man in CW. - FACT
There is nothing in place to keep a player who installed the game an hour ago from facing a team of TIER 1 players. - FACT

Those are both major differences between Solo and CW ques. You could even say 'game breaking' experience for many solo players. Now if YOU enjoy yourself dropping solo, great I am happy for you...but what about the other 23 people in the match?

What about the 12 guys on the other team all in coms, all in TIER 1 mechs who came to fight TEAM of players....think they are having fun stomping you into the ground (Hint: players want EPIC matches....stomping a bunch of solo players is NOT EPIC)? What about the 11 other guys on YOUR team, do you think they are having fun carrying a solo player dropping in trial mechs (just because you don't drop in trial mechs solo still doesn't change that fact that solo players can and DO drop in trial mechs). Or are you simply one of THOSE people...you know the type I'm talking about...the ones who only care about themselves and THEIR happiness...as long as YOU are having a good time F the 23 other people.

I mean if you have an idea of how to make 'end game' content fun and rewarding for both solo AND group play please share you thoughts...we want to know, I WANT to know. If the extent of your feedback is YOUR WRONG, with nothing else to offer as a solution to the "there is not End Game in MWO" issue...the people in this thread can file your contribution where it belongs...in the trash.

Edited by Armando, 09 August 2015 - 02:41 PM.

[Willard Phule]

Armando, on 09 August 2015 - 01:33 AM, said:

Letting solo players que for community warfare is THE worst idea ever, not even close. Bad for the communities of players (228, NS, Kcom, EmP, Lords, MS, etc). Bad for the solo players (who can't put out 100 damage total using 4 mechs). What PGI has done is take the solo que....give players 3 more mechs per drop, FORCED solo players to fight 12 mans groups, oh and lets not forget.....No ELO in CW either. Solo players have a solo que RIGHT NOW, TODAY....no groups allowed, and it HAS ELO. Community Warfare is NOT fun for solo players, nothing will change that, I will say it again...NOTHING WILL CHANGE THAT...that is a fact, a plain and simple FACT. Require being part of a team before someone can que for CW....THEN INCENTIVEISE (I like to make up words.) TEAM PLAY TO MAKE BEING PART OF A TEAM MEANINGFUL. Give people a reason to join a team and THEY WILL join a team.

Dude.

I'm a solo player. I made my own damn unit. It's me, myself and I. I've done well enough in CW, as a solo PUG, to hit Star Colonel. I'm reasonably sure I know what I'm doing.

I agree that inexperienced players in mechs they neither own nor can modify in any way is the single most destructive thing to the gameplay in CW.

And with all these ECM mechs being released right before the big ECM nerf, all those LRM based trial mechs are completely worthless. Doesn't stop the new guys from wanting to use the "get a lock, get paid" weapons.

It's really a shame that PGI can't come up with an interactive tutorial to help them learn basic skills before throwing them into the deep end.

I guess neither Russ nor Paul care because they're used to being carried by everyone else. They figure the new players should enjoy that as well.

[Armando]

Willard Phule, on 09 August 2015 - 02:38 PM, said:

Dude.

I'm a solo player. I made my own damn unit. It's me, myself and I. I've done well enough in CW, as a solo PUG, to hit Star Colonel. I'm reasonably sure I know what I'm doing.

I agree that inexperienced players in mechs they neither own nor can modify in any way is the single most destructive thing to the gameplay in CW.

And with all these ECM mechs being released right before the big ECM nerf, all those LRM based trial mechs are completely worthless. Doesn't stop the new guys from wanting to use the "get a lock, get paid" weapons.

It's really a shame that PGI can't come up with an interactive tutorial to help them learn basic skills before throwing them into the deep end.

I guess neither Russ nor Paul care because they're used to being carried by everyone else. They figure the new players should enjoy that as well.

Sounds reasonable to me brother.

Now let me ask you this....I tell you that you will get double C-Bills every CW match when you drop with 3 other players who you have recruited into your unit. Think you might start looking for other players to group with?

Also...

I see that your location is listed as: The Omega Company compound on Outreach so let me say to you...

[-MS-] hopes you enjoy your stay Outreach and if there is we can do to make your stay on our planet more enjoyable please feel free to let me know.

...now back to the Cookie Jar for me.

Edited by Armando, 09 August 2015 - 03:03 PM.

[Telmasa]

facts:
- CW would be dead without solo players
- Many solo players are alot better at CW than the majority of grouped players
- CW is in a state nobody can really claim is acceptable
- Other priorities exist ahead of fixing CW, but it's important to recognize it was/is a major objective that should be accomplished as soon as other, major, requisite game updates take place

Edited by Telmasa, 09 August 2015 - 03:49 PM.

[The Blood God]

HiasRGB, on 09 August 2015 - 02:15 AM, said:

I have fun as Solo.

but do you win much ?? against premades??

[RjBass3]

If you are a single Davion pilot with no unit, you have no reason to be dropping solo. Just get TS, regardless if you have a mic or not and join us for Wed Night Warfare. It's to simple.

Edited by RjBass3, 09 August 2015 - 04:20 PM.

[Kin3ticX]

1453 R, on 09 August 2015 - 12:35 PM, said:

And people wonder where I get it, when I say that CW players are all a bunch of jackalopes who insist, loudly and with great passion, that solo players leave their precious Commodity Warfare alone

And when it finally tanks, fails altogether, and needs to be scrapped and rebuilt, I will laugh, and laugh, and not feel even remotely bad.

You did, after all, bring it on yourselves.

You are way off base here. You are mistaking arguments of futility as downright hostility towards solos. Check yourself

[quantaca]

removing solo players as a whole seems like a bad idea to me, even limiting them (something like max 6 out of 12 can be solo) would be a bad idea atleast untill you get more players into CW, i know there are good units that dont drop CW because they dont like the stomp, they prefer doing that in the group que where there should be more resistance (ELO MM and all), but getting them back will be tricky.

for that CW will need incentives
1. increase rewards, both ingame as the end of game win bonus and extend that to a loss as well at say 50%

2. make planets do something, and maybe make valuable planets harder to capture (not just more slices to capture, but an extra pilot or +10/20 tons dropweight for defense, shorter timer, more turrets) or make some planets a big high value target (bonusses for the attackers)

3. make people want to play in a unit (im not a very social person but i like it and i learned a lot of stuff just by trying to keep up, i doubt id be at the lvl im at now if i just played solo all the time, not that that lvl is that high but still )

4. make CW an ongoing event with a small backstory someting like hey liao declared war on marik, 3 marik planets are open for attack, few days later marik retaliates and tries to hire a lot of mercs to do so +x% cbills when fighting for marik, (obviously this may need their loyalist/merc splitup they talked about). then kurita thinks well id like a planet or 2 as well, at that point all the clans come together and say hey now that they're weakened lets backstab someone ... then comstar steps to the plate and tries to unite the IS to fight clans, doesnt need to be great literature just .... something.

PS. i feel sad when people keep asking for new game modes to be implemented because now its all deathball games but completely bypass CW because hey the planets dont mean anything,.. its the one gamemode we have where skill and tactics can make a big difference yes its all 2/3 lanes of aproach but thats what can make it challenging, you have to overcome some actuall obstacles not just blob up and hope you get the first 2-3 kills so the enemy keels over

Edited by quantaca, 09 August 2015 - 04:48 PM.

[The Blood God]

TWIAFU, on 09 August 2015 - 03:54 AM, said:

So, you dont even play in the game mode and yet are perpetuating the 12man rolfstomp BS.

Wow.

Since you have a total lack of fact, here is one from PGI.

12man stomps only happen 1%, or less, of the time. Rest of the time it is PUGs, or this mythical 12man solo group, that are doing the pug farming. Your pug farming is done BY PUGs TO PUGs.

So, how do you PUGs want to be nerfed so you cannot farm PUGs since it is you doing it 99% of the time?

what are you smoking i want to be that detached from reality, pug stomps 1% hahahahahahaha 99% of the cw i play is stomping pugs yet pgi suggests that all these easy farming matches i play with my team only make up 1% of matches how fortunate that we manage to avoid all those premade teams and just get pugs

i'm also pretty sure (dont really care if im wrong how ever) that pgi said 12 v 12 made up 1% of games not 12 mans stomping pugs

i like the idea of entry reqs though i'd be more inclined to introduce a proving ground a planet for new guys no faction, no unit, no groups in que and no owned mechs, once a suitable number of games have been played unlock cw, at least then they should have enough money and exp to start a deck

next idea! our unit is sitting on a huge pile of c-bills atm that we cant do anything with i suggested something similar when cw first launched but think this new version of the idea is a little better, allow unit commanders to use those c-bills to build standard issue mechs for the unit so if a new guy does have deck limitations he/she can take a try'd and tested deck into cw like a trial deck but with good mechs set up to what the com believes to be effective, so the default deck would be your units tire 1 deck in unit colours no less, instead of the trials you're presented with when you first start up or change contract

force groups of 4/8/12, i like it you could at least try compete as a lance if not a whole team