257 replies to this topic

[Willard Phule]

One thing that absolutely needs to be kept in mind is that the whole engine situation is brought about because PGI can't figure out how to program the normal engine rules. Same thing with gyros.

As your engine takes damage, you're supposed to lose speed and gain heat. Unfortunately, the ability for the game to register the number of hits on specific critical locations has eluded them...and they're not interested in figuring it out. Remember..."minimally viable product." That's what they always shoot for.

And that's where the whole Clan engine thing comes into play. 3 engine hits, you're done. Clan XLs have 2 slots on the side...IS has 3. Simple math.

Clans are supposed to be technologically superior. While the inner sphere was beating each other back into the stone age, the Clans were progressing out in the Kerensky cluster. The difference is that they operate in stars of 5. Hence, a 10 v 12 match is what we should be looking at. Again, PGIs inability to code such a thing has caused friction and debate since clan mechs first came out.

All of these things were addressed in the beginning, then got shoved off to the back burner so they could work on more sales and shineys to sell. Again, standard operating procedure.

Don't expect this to be fixed in any meaningful way. Standard procedure is to find an appropriate band-aid that will shut up the majority of the whiners long enough to buy more stuff. Kind of like the Elo/Matchmaker thing they threw in. It was never intended to be that way. I still remember the post when they put it into the game...they even said it was a temporary fix. Then they started adding string and duct tape to it...and it ended up the mess it was at the end.

[AdamBaines]

VoodooLou Kerensky, on 25 October 2015 - 12:15 PM, said:

Its pure unadulterated copy pasta I couldve just supplied a link but then ppl would have to make a twitter account n yadda yadda.
PGI's Word of the Day Monday will be 'ClannersButtCheeks' followed by Spread the Word.

My God, can you get more whiney? And dont give me the crap about saying your opinion. Yes, but for god sakes, dont sound like a 6 year old while doing it.

[Saelmgra Halcyon]

During the last years we had some ups and downs regarding balance.
We even had something some of you would call a money-grab by the old publisher (IGP).
I was late for the founder thing but did invest a lot of money since then regardless of those ups and downs (all packs, see badge, insane ammount of money, thx go to my wife).

We now had two PTS sessions with new mechanics tested and some old revisited or reinvented.
We do not know yet if there will be 1 (final pass) or 2 (3rd test + final pass) further PTS sessions.
I see those PTS sessions as exactly what is said: Whole rebalance while trying to keep the spirit of the two techs (IS/Clan) with new mechanics.
That means we will see a new MWO in the near (half a year hopefully) future and will get more players through steam then.

Stop whining, play the mech you like and feel comfortable with, the PSR-thing isn't really that important.
Have fun and let's ride this up or down of MWO (not sure if its up or down yet) together as a community that sticks together!

Edited by Sael, 26 October 2015 - 05:08 AM.

[reign]

Soo... Why not put in Light Fusion Engines for IS ?

Then we could have both!

Edited by reign, 26 October 2015 - 05:34 AM.

[codynyc]

Hey russkeep things how they are currently a for resistance 3 pack make it inner sphere omnis ... With the same aspects as the clans in term of xl engines and omni pods. Skip the time line snd bring on 3058

Edited by codynyc, 26 October 2015 - 06:14 AM.

[Tarl Cabot]

Any movement penalty due to heat is part of "lore" but has yet to be included in this game. If it had been from the beginning, or added when Clan heat penalties were added, would we really be talking about this? (shrugs) Also part of "lore" is firing weapons every 10 seconds, and wait for it!!!, the targeting computer did the actual firing (boardgame-wise) dice was the deciding factor on hit/miss, and if a hit then location (cone of fire in a FPS would have a similar effect).

And if Clans had come into the game completely configurable, how quickly would have it been "nerfed", or how much larger would the IS quirks have gotten?

And for anyone who has seen the PTS changes, though not complete, the currently high quirk levels are very likely on their way out. Or should be on their way out, provided the base foundation has a more leveled playing field.

For the currently preferred mechs, what change would be made to them using an friendly XL engine? 6 more slots used, a lighter but larger engine and maybe equip a few more heatsinks, change from MLaser to MPL and be a tad faster. From looking at my builds speed change would be the bigger change.

I believe IS XL friendly engines would push a number of the non-preferred mechs towards the preferred side. For many though their second biggest downfall is being humanoid with low setting hardpoints. A speed increase from running an XL engine would provide them the ability to show themselves, fire then get out of LOS. Also said mechs would likely field slightly heavier weapons and/or another weapon, though still fewer than Clans, which would put those IS mechs into a more usable state, even more so without quirks. The difference in speed, from going 64kph to 75kph+ would be a game changer for many mechs, allowing them to be brought out of the barn. Consider the change from facing the same mechs day in and day out, to a more variety of mechs.

Just remember, all of these suggestions are due to how PGI has changed the base game play from "lore", from the boardgame w/dice to an 3D/computer environment. None of the previous games had made any sort of major changes, but then the previous games primary focus was not PVP. And there has to be a way to make the barn's full of mechs more viable in the currently quick pace environment by allowing them to be a tad faster while being more durable.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 26 October 2015 - 04:29 PM.

[Rebel Ace Fryslan]

loosing speed/twist should be a thing, it's only logical.

20-30%, this would also make them play a bit more with care.

[Nightmare1]

...And people wonder why I speak ill of PGI's handling of the Clans and why I boycott all Clan packs past Wave I...

I saw this coming when the very first nerfhammer fell on my Wave I Pack. I nearly asked for a refund but thought that would be cheap of me. Now I kind of wish I had.

Edit: I'll never understand PGI's aversion to timeskipping. Instead of nerfing the Clans into oblivion, it'd be so much easier just to timeskip and introduce a few new features to the IS along the lines of improved engines, IS OmniMechs (Sunderer, anyone?), weapons, etc.

...But nope, we gotta hammer the Clans just 'cause.

There's a reason why, out of >100 BattleMechs that I own, only 12 of the chassis are Clan. IS is just better and a whole lot more fun to build, rebuild, and play.

Edited by Nightmare1, 26 October 2015 - 08:06 AM.

[NocturnalBeast]

shameless, on 25 October 2015 - 11:59 AM, said:

they do this I'd as for refunds my currently not received purchases, because that's bs. The IS does get tech that balances the clans advantages, further into the timeline.

Yes, agreed! The OP only echoed Jaeger's opinion and not the other opinions in that Twitter conversation. My opinion is that if PGI "F@#!s" BATTLETECH lore as Jaeger suggests, then they need to change "A BATTLETECH GAME" to "A BATTLETECH GAME IN APPEARANCE ONLY", otherwise it will mislead customers and hurt the franchise. Seriously, there is already a generic shooter with giant "robots" out there, it is called TITANFALL so people who don't want to play "A BATTLETECH GAME" can go play TITANFALL and stop trying to ruin the game that I like.

[NocturnalBeast]

reign, on 26 October 2015 - 05:33 AM, said:

Soo... Why not put in Light Fusion Engines for IS ?

Then we could have both!

This is the lore-based solution that should be implemented, not some hamfisted buffs and nerfs to XL engines. Although, I will admit that light fusion engines will make IS XL engines about as desirable as single heatsinks.

[DAYLEET]

Nightshade24, on 25 October 2015 - 11:27 PM, said:

Stalkers are my first assault mech, first to reach 1000+ damage, etc.
I own nearly all clan mechs, I got at least 3 mechs of each chassis I own but I do not own the Gargoyle yet. I also own the origins mechs.

I am not sure how you play the stalker. But I think it is public single cue you mostly play in- this is not an insault on your abilities but in a team situation I doubt an XL stalker survives a lot as most premades love flanking. My nova or hunchback takes the side torso of a stalker in seconds and most often if the stalker tries to dare turn to face me now my entire team faces it's other torso or back. And virtually all stalkers are XL-less. I should state that what makes a mech XL friendly is large CT and small ST's, the Stalker is nearly the complete opposite and that's why it is a popular standard engine meta mech as it can spread damage easily away from the ST.

On the topic of clan mechs: I own a lot of clan mechs and they do not feel that much different to most of my IS mechs in the whole standard engine/ xl engine debate and at times iwth some clan mechs with no endo/ ferro, to a degree the mech acts if it has an UP Standard engine more than an OP XL engine. What can also add to it is if it is the same weight as a superior engine so you do not get as much bang for your buck.

However there is all sorts of problems with clan XL's, ranging from the mechs that use them (Direwolf, Stormcrow, which profile can make it very hard to protect yourself or to manage where shots land, or in other cases a CT magnet or huge ST magnet that LRM's / srm's / Lbx will strip both ST's faster then it would kill a IS mech... yes, this kinda means clans are weak to missiles in some cases but not all but there is a different topic to touch on)

Omnimechs have so many built in balances... and to a degree so do the IIC's... each of them is much easier to hit or focus on parts than the IS counterpart, ie if you think 1 hunch is bad enough for the hunchback, now you got 2 making you more fragile but also tunnel visioned... Orion now double the width-ish... Jenner IIC being bigger, etc... However this isn't true for all Clan battlemechs, such as highlander IIC, Kodiak, Etc...
1 idea I suggest time and time again is increase or add penalties to the battlemech version, such as making their SRM's stream out and so on. in terms of XL engine double the current penalty for losing a Side torso or maybe x2.5 it. There is the option to switch engines and use standard engines on battlemechs so the problem is averted , these nerfs can be altered by quirks on some chassis that may need it despretly... for eg the Orion IIC, Highlander IIC, Supernova, Kodiak, etc.
Simular logic can apply to some clan omnimechs in terms of altering a nerf to benefit a mech, for eg allowing adders to get more than 10 damage ER PPC's but reduced splash or having a kitfox or summoner have no reduced damage at min range for LRM's...

Also control on XL penalties could be altered depending on the omnipods and chassis, such as the timberwolf A side torso (possibly after lossing some hurtufl penalties) making it lose more heat effeciency when you loose a ST- any ST. Just my 10 cents.

Ive not played group queue in a long long time, it really went to **** after psr. Super long wait time and 10man group suddenly everywhere and my friend disappeared. I did quite a lot of CW in my quest to get free mech for all faction though.

If you play with large group with cohesive fire i have no idea why you would hit the st of anything esp with clan mech because you just dish a ridiculous amount of firepower and you're wasting times with ST's unless it;s a particular chassis and espoecialy if you know they don't have an XL.

If you don't notice a difference between CXL and ISXL it might be because you play with groups. Huge Alpha and everyone communicating together can paint over the buff you get from a CXL. In solo Q the buff and nerf are increased ten fold.

[Kanya Pryde]

It's too hard/impossible to have clans with 10 mechs and IS with 12 in a drop.
(I heard somewhere along the way that reasons included not wanting people to gravitate toward only using more powerful clan mechs (thereby depleting the game of IS players) and the desire to max out server loads with 24 players per match rather than 22) I'm still trying to get over the fact that we're not dropping 1.5 lances vs a Star of clan mechs, but apparently that is a dream that will never fully develop.

I find it ironic that folks in this thread are complaining about other people putting money into the development of a game they enjoy. It is even more ironic seeing comments by apparently exclusive IS pilots salivating over the "tears" of clan pilots because it is the complaints of IS pilots that bring about most of the change in this game.

I've loved the clans for more than 20 years. My introduction into battletech is actually through reading the novels. I couldn't talk any of my friends into playing tabletop, have played some other mechwarrior titles over time, got big into mw clicky tech, and blah blah blah.

Why bother with that last paragraph you say? Because I love Battletech. But to be honest, the game is already in a pretty well balanced place and people from both sides are still bitching. Go ahead and make IS xl engines improved and make it so they blow when 4 crit slots are destroyed rather than 3. Why? Because it doesn't matter! OR... Leave IS engines alone and leave clan engines alone. Why? Because it doesn't matter!

Why doesn't it matter? Because Teamwork is OP. If you want your mech to perform better in drops, then play as a team.

[Triordinant]

INTERIM SOLUTION:

Make all matches in the solo queue (where the vast majority of MWO players play) Clan vs Clan and IS vs IS until a Clan/IS balance solution can be tried, tested and implemented. It should greatly increase match quality and quell the anger while the contentious and seemingly never-ending search for Clan/IS balance continues.

[NocturnalBeast]

10 vs 12 in CW is not impossible, we can already do uneaven matches in private games, PGI just needs to make it happen.

[LastKhan]

for people that want 10 vs 12 in reg que;

It would be very hard for people to find matches when its said to be 60% IS and 40% Clans (these figures i saw not sure if its 100% correct). So i have doubts it will work, unless you cut back by removing the ability to select specific game modes. redo group drops and force people to play a certain way in order to make 10 v 12 work. Which doesnt do well with some people who want to play whatever they want. Ill be kool with PGI to attempt this on PTS and see if my hypothesis is correct.

Edited by LastKhan, 26 October 2015 - 09:52 AM.

[NocturnalBeast]

LastKhan, on 26 October 2015 - 09:13 AM, said:

of course its not impossible, but it would be very hard for people to find matches when its said to be 60% IS and 40% Clans (these figures i saw not sure if its 100% correct). So i have doubts it will work, unless you cut back by removing the ability to select specific game modes. redo group drops and force people to play a certain way in order to make 10 v 12 work. Which doesnt do well with some people who want to play whatever they want. Ill be kool with PGI to attempt this on PTS and see if my hypothesis is correct.

You missed the key part of my post "10 vs 12 in CW", I was not talking about solo or group queue.

[Pihoqahiak]

MischiefSC, on 25 October 2015 - 02:16 PM, said:

Some people will ask for refunds because they only bought Clan tech because it was op. They wanted to buy an advantage, that's it. The Clan/IS balance at Clan release was horrible, designed for PvE and the original TT developers apologized for it. It was so bad they nuked the game universe (WoB) so they could start over with balanced tech.

Wrong. It wasn't balance issues that they look back on and would like to have had handled a bit differently. It was shifting the feel of the declining state of technology and a dark ages tone to the backdrop setting (and they actually used the term "dark age" in the 2750-3025 era, many years before even thinking up the concept of the Clans for the game).

[LastKhan]

Ed Steele, on 26 October 2015 - 09:46 AM, said:

You missed the key part of my post "10 vs 12 in CW", I was not talking about solo or group queue.

Ah i so did. sorry. Some people tend to say they want it for the reg que too. guess that'll be for them. xD

[BARBAR0SSA]

Rebel Ace Fryslan, on 26 October 2015 - 07:55 AM, said:

loosing speed/twist should be a thing, it's only logical.

20-30%, this would also make them play a bit more with care.

They need to allow engine swapping in clans when we start looking at penalties to make them similar to IS. Not just a simple "turn this on" and voila!

[ChapeL]

codynyc, on 26 October 2015 - 06:13 AM, said:

Hey russkeep things how they are currently a for resistance 3 pack make it inner sphere omnis ... With the same aspects as the clans in term of xl engines and omni pods. Skip the time line snd bring on 3058

Be careful what you ask for... some of those early IS Omnis come hardwired with single Heat sinks