306 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

W A R K H A N, on 01 December 2015 - 11:05 AM, said:

Don't think anyone is complaining about that.

I think people are complaning about




As you can see it's a massive nerf to mobility.

There's a problem with your statement and the data you provided.

First, 25% is a a big % and chunk of %
That does not mean 25% is "massive"

25% of 20 =5
25% of 1 = .25

Which is more massive? Statistical data alone out of context like that does not give enough information to determine big or small really or what the end result will be in regards to how the mech handles afterwards.

[Revis Volek]

Bishop Steiner, on 01 December 2015 - 10:26 AM, said:

and you still will. Notice that most Assault got decent sized agility quirks?

Most IS assaults got Mobility quirks....

The best Clan assault mobility quirk I see is the WHK with its +7.5 accel and decel.

[WarHippy]

Sandpit, on 01 December 2015 - 10:36 AM, said:

The only thing I use the notes for is to gain an idea on what PGI is doing.

The math doesn't amount to much for me. .5% increase? Great! It means nothing to me really. I want to see how it works practically before I judge it most times. Especially with stuff like this. I'm less concerned with the hard numbers and more concerned with how it "feels"

Personally, I felt like all of the mechs I tested that didn't get the mobility quirks felt sluggish, unresponsive, and lack luster. The ones that got the quirks felt about the same. Overall I don't like the change, and I would agree with Ultimatum X that if they wanted to lower the numbers on the skill tree for the sake of new players they should have buffed all of the base movement stats on all of the mechs to compensate.

Edited by WarHippy, 01 December 2015 - 11:36 AM.

[Sarlic]

[redacted]

In defense of the OP. I do agree.

Especially agree on Ultimatum's post:

Ultimatum X, on 01 December 2015 - 09:45 AM, said:

I would have been OK with the global mobility and agility nerfs if they went through and then re-added all of the lost agility and mobility directly into the mechs themselves.


Then they would be reducing the gap between mastered mechs and unmastered mechs which is good for NPE.


That's not what they did though.

Some mechs got big agility and mobility quirks, some did not. It's a very uneven application.



It's also ultimately bad for TTK, and it's bad for dynamic gameplay in general.

Edited by Coryphee, 02 December 2015 - 01:13 AM.
Unconstructive in quote

[WarHippy]

DarthRevis, on 01 December 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

Most IS assaults got Mobility quirks....

The best Clan assault mobility quirk I see is the WHK with its +7.5 accel and decel.

Clan assaults got hit pretty hard by the changes, but I don't really play my clan mechs very often anymore because while some are certainly really strong they just don't feel efficient compared to a lot of my IS mechs this just adds to that feeling.

As for the IS assaults most didn't get those mobility quirks and as a result don't feel very good at all, while the ones that did get the quirks feel about the same or even over the top now when compared to their quirked brethren.

[Morggo]

I've followed all this sort of discussion all over the forums since the Skill Updates started to firm up.
Not that it counts for much, but here's my point of view (lines up with a lot of others)

I like the changes. I like them a lot.
Here's why:

- I'm more of an immersion player. (love the new cockpit screens, btw) This is not a marine rolling and dashing around the battle field. It's a huge massed, bulky machine (and yes, I even mean the Lights.. c'mon guys the smallest weighs in at 20 TONS, with high centers of gravity) and they are simply NOT going to nimbly dance across a battlefield. If that's your thing, see above reference to "human based" FPS games?
- I like the direction PGI is going, more ability to insert more realistic performance balancing. You'll notice now that the quirks are becoming more tuned to the actual mech. Like a mech with most it's hardpoints in, say, RA. They likely gave it RA structure/armour. Engineers would be smart like that. Or the mech specific speed quirks. I believe what they are moving toward is looking at the physical mech and against a common 'bar' saying "would this perform any different do to, say, lower center of gravity".. in this example Yes, so give it some accel quirk. Not saying PGI has perfected this, but it lays the frame work to do so.
- Regarding the overall skill adjustments downward. This makes sense when combined with the above thinking/focus on mech specific quirks. You should be able to milk some better performance out of a vehicle in general if you are more talented a driver. But nothing insane... there is only so much pilot skill will push the physical limits of a given vehicle. For example... put me and a professional driver in the same car on a track. Guaranteed he'll out perform me. BUT.. take speed... I can mash the accelerator and get to he finish not far behind him... he just maybe shifts smoother with better timing BUT there's only so much horsepower in that car he can pull out. Examples like this are endless. However you put him in a sports car with better aerodynamics and tuned suspension in otherwise same sized/weight cars... his skill PLUS the 'quirks' in the physically better car will make him that much better.
- For those saying things like "it's the death of Assaults" or "now they'll be more ponderous in battles"... Guys... again, these things are 80 to 100 TONS. I'll say that again.... 80 to 100 tons. I'm no physicist but just comprehend the sheer MASS that is to move. They shouldn't be zipping across the field, they should plod... and look for good postioning and opportunies. Keep in mind, most your opponents will be suffering the same loss of mobility.

All in all, I really like the shift and look forward to seeing everyone on the field tonight!
Morggo

Edited by Morggo, 01 December 2015 - 11:51 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

DarthRevis, on 01 December 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

Most IS assaults got Mobility quirks....

The best Clan assault mobility quirk I see is the WHK with its +7.5 accel and decel.

working as intended....

It's a conspiracy to make Gyrok sad.

[WarHippy]

Morggo, on 01 December 2015 - 11:49 AM, said:

I've followed all this sort of discussion all over the forums since the Skill Updates started to firm up.
Not that it counts for much, but here's my point of view (lines up with a lot of others)

I like the changes. I like them a lot.
Here's why:

- I'm more of an immersion player. (love the new cockpit screens, btw) This is not a marine rolling and dashing around the battle field. It's a huge massed, bulky machine (and yes, I even mean the Lights.. c'mon guys the smallest weighs in at 20 TONS, with high centers of gravity) and they are simply NOT going to nimbly dance across a battlefield. If that's your thing, see above reference to "human based" FPS games?
- I like the direction PGI is going, more ability to insert more realistic performance balancing. You'll notice now that the quirks are becoming more tuned to the actual mech. Like a mech with most it's hardpoints in, say, RA. They likely gave it RA structure/armour. Engineers would be smart like that. Or the mech specific speed quirks. I believe what they are moving toward is looking at the physical mech and against a common 'bar' saying "would this perform any different do to, say, lower center of gravity".. in this example Yes, so give it some accel quirk. Not saying PGI has perfected this, but it lays the frame work to do so.
- Regarding the overall skill adjustments downward. This makes sense when combined with the above thinking/focus on mech specific quirks. You should be able to milk some better performance out of a vehicle in general if you are more talented a driver. But nothing insane... there is only so much pilot skill will push the physical limits of a given vehicle. For example... put me and a professional driver in the same car on a track. Guaranteed he'll out perform me. BUT.. take speed... I can mash the accelerator and get to he finish not far behind him... he just maybe shifts smoother with better timing BUT there's only so much horsepower in that car he can pull out. Examples like this are endless. However you put him in a sports car with better aerodynamics and tuned suspension in otherwise same sized/weight cars... his skill PLUS the 'quirks' in the physically better car will make him that much better.
- For those saying things like "it's the death of Assaults" or "now they'll be more ponderous in battles"... Guys... again, these things are 80 to 100 TONS. I'll say that again.... 80 to 100 tons. I'm no physicist but just comprehend the sheer MASS that is to move. They shouldn't be zipping across the field, they should plod... and look for good postioning and opportunies. Keep in mind, most your opponents will be suffering the same loss of mobility.

All in all, I really like the shift and look forward to seeing everyone on the field tonight!
Morggo

I like immersion as well, but I like lore immersion even more. Mechs in the lore are not these slow moving behemoths that can barely move around. A lot of them are surprisingly nimble. All sorts of examples in the books of mechs jumping around and landing hard into a roll and back to their feet etc.. If anything a lot of the smaller mechs here were already not nimble enough. So from my perspective I really don't like the changes because they actually take away from my immersion.

[Sandpit]

WarHippy, on 01 December 2015 - 11:36 AM, said:

Personally, I felt like all of the mechs I tested that didn't get the mobility quirks felt sluggish, unresponsive, and lack luster. The ones that got the quirks felt about the same. Overall I don't like the change, and I would agree with Ultimatum X that if they wanted to lower the numbers on the skill tree for the sake of new players they should have buffed all of the base movement stats on all of the mechs to compensate.

If they move like they used to, I'm good with that. I like the fact that my fatties can't out turn and aren't as agile and mobile as lighter mechs,

I don't jump into my truck and complain that it doesn't have the smaller turning radius of my car.

[Lugh]

Bishop Steiner, on 01 December 2015 - 11:51 AM, said:

working as intended....

It's a conspiracy to make Gyrok sad.

It's an attempt to placate the Froobs who are ruining the game one non-purchase after another, making demands for changes to keep playing, not paying some more and not playing because their froobish demands weren't met soon enough.

[Revis Volek]

Bishop Steiner, on 01 December 2015 - 11:51 AM, said:

working as intended....

It's a conspiracy to make Gyrok sad.

lolz!

Poor Clan puppy...

[Sarlic]

Just had my first match after the rebalance.

I guess the Orion kicked butt. I had like 737 damage. Very satifying to see a shitmech on the list.

I didnt seem to notice too much from all those nerfs. The only thing i needed to adapt is the heat that was certainly feelable. I always had a margin inside my head before i shutdown. Sometimes it's 2 up to 5%.

Edited by Sarlic, 01 December 2015 - 12:03 PM.

[WarHippy]

Sandpit, on 01 December 2015 - 11:56 AM, said:

If they move like they used to, I'm good with that. I like the fact that my fatties can't out turn and aren't as agile and mobile as lighter mechs,

I don't jump into my truck and complain that it doesn't have the smaller turning radius of my car.

Some move like they did some do not. That was my point. As for the turning part a mech regardless of size turning in place or moving at a much slower speed really should have a much easier time of tracking a fast moving target that is taking a larger turning arc due to speed.

[H I A S]

oh look, another Gyrok thread...

Edited by arivio, 01 December 2015 - 12:10 PM.

[Sandpit]

WarHippy, on 01 December 2015 - 12:03 PM, said:

Some move like they did some do not. That was my point. As for the turning part a mech regardless of size turning in place or moving at a much slower speed really should have a much easier time of tracking a fast moving target that is taking a larger turning arc due to speed.

That depends on the mech though. Smaller mechs have a smaller turning radius and then you have to count in those who know how to use JJs effectively to change course and direction very quickly. There's a lot more to it than turning radius, but all in all I've always felt mechs "felt good" and one of the solid points of the game.

By "feel good" I mean how they handle and turn, etc.

[Davegt27]

The changes make me nervous I hope they work out but based on what the few say and want its not good

For example when people say the Mechs are more tankey as in tank
Well if you have a tank why would you need a Mech , I thought the whole idea of myomer bundles was an advancment over gears and hydraulics
In other words Mechs are not supposed to feel like tanks they are supposed to feel like Mechs

Better stronger faster


The other thing that worries me is the skills nerf
Will it be worth it to buy all 3 of the same type of Mech?
I had already stopped buying all 3 unless I really liked the Mech
The free Victors we got well I only had the one (not good enough to waste my time on getting 2 more)
Same with mist lynx and the Gargoyle

I hope these changes work but I don't know

[WarHippy]

Sandpit, on 01 December 2015 - 12:19 PM, said:

That depends on the mech though. Smaller mechs have a smaller turning radius and then you have to count in those who know how to use JJs effectively to change course and direction very quickly. There's a lot more to it than turning radius, but all in all I've always felt mechs "felt good" and one of the solid points of the game.

By "feel good" I mean how they handle and turn, etc.

I kind of feel like we are different pages at the moment heh.

If they always "felt good" (which I would agree with) then these changes to the skill tree and the mechs that did not get the quirks to compensate took something that "felt good" and made them not feel good. They really should have bumped all of the base mobility stats rather than just picking certain ones to get those huge quirks.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Feels more like a mech game now, used to feel like an FPS

[Sandpit]

WarHippy, on 01 December 2015 - 12:33 PM, said:

I kind of feel like we are different pages at the moment heh.

If they always "felt good" (which I would agree with) then these changes to the skill tree and the mechs that did not get the quirks to compensate took something that "felt good" and made them not feel good. They really should have bumped all of the base mobility stats rather than just picking certain ones to get those huge quirks.

I can't comment on the changes yet as I haven't played under them. Once I do I can give a better opinion on the changes. Like I said earlier, the math isn't a big factor for me. I want to see how it actually handles in game. Once I do that I can give some feedback on the changes.

At this point, what I am saying is PGI has always done a pretty good job at making the mechs "feel right" to me and I've pretty much liked the way they handle from the beginning and just about every change they've made in this department I like. (JJs and a few others being an exception)

I don't know how I'll like the new changes until I get a chance to get some games in under them

[pwnface]

I don't think the agility changes were smart. Maybe should have increased the base values instead of ending with the final values.