551 replies to this topic

[AEgg]

Asking for locks is dumb because LRMs are TERRIBLE when not used as direct fire weapons.

If you don't have LOS, are beyond 600m, or both, your LRMs aren't really doing any good.

[Johny Rocket]

AEgg, on 27 December 2015 - 11:26 AM, said:

Asking for locks is dumb because LRMs are TERRIBLE when not used as direct fire weapons.

If you don't have LOS, are beyond 600m, or both, your LRMs aren't really doing any good.

Quote

SO many BS stereo types in this thread it makes me sick...

he was talking strait to you.

[Kraftwerkedup]

Nope. LRMs are bad.

We've been over this.

How many people from the top groups have to tell you this before you believe them?

Greenduck? Blueduck? Can you please save us from this thread?

[PAINLESS 42]

Hi my name is Painless and I Boat LRMs.... I think I hit rock bottom when I ran an LRM70+A build with 16 tons of ammo over the last event....

A few points for LRMBoaters

1. LRMs are direct-fire weapons. Can you fire them indirectly? Yes, but it's not ideal, because you're giving up Artemis and TAG, the two things that make LRMs viable. Imagine them as long range LB-X autocannons that you can indirectly fire in a pinch. All those crazy LRM-75 and LRM-100 youtube videos you've seen where LRMs are these godlike weapons of doom... yeah, that was 2 years ago. The game mechanics have completely changed

2. Speaking of Tag and Artemis, they along with Active Probes and the targeting module are the best things in your tool kit. Run as many of them as possible on your build.

3. LRMs are probably most effective from 300-500 meters. This is your sweet spot.

For the LRM Haters

1. There are legitimate reasons for firing LRMs without my own lock.

A. I'm 900 meters away... not I'm "Sitting" 900 meters away, but at this instant, that's where I happen to be. It's not an ideal place to be, but on maps like Alpine peaks, Tourmaline desert, it can be quite viable. Some times you're just on the other side of the map.

B. I'm at 300 meters away, but there is intervening terrain, ad I can't get a lock. Frozen city comes to mind, lots of little bumps and ridges I can fire over but not get a lock on.

C. Because Reasons. The targeting system has its quirks and sometimes you just can't get the locks that you should. I was in a Hunchback firing directly at a stormcrow wit ERMLs at 400 meters yesterday with no intervening cover or ECM, and couldn't target the SC to save my life. took 20 seconds to get an empty carrot. Why? who knows.

2. Don't assume everything Is about you. Yes, hitting R is MWO 101, but at the same time there are tons of new players learning the game that fail to remember to do it. Ok, you're in Tier 1, good for you, but you represent the minority of players, understand and appreciate that. "Being competitive at Tier 1" is not what is going to drive the game experience for most players. I've seen people fire small lasers at 500 meters, SRMs at 400, put LRMs on the Stalker 6 tube launchers.. and all sorts of other rookie mistakes. Don't assume its about you.

3. Don't assume everything is about you part 2. A request is a request. When I'm piloting a light, I'll hold locks if I can, but if I can't I don't. I don't give the requester a hard time, because I'm not a oppositionally-defiant 8 year old. If I want to help, great, If not, fine. there are 11 other players who may or may not want to.

[Roughneck45]

Its just a dumb thing to ask in the solo Q.

"Please hold locks" translates into "expose yourself to fire so that I can reap the rewards", nearly always from someone who plays their missiles from way too far back, fires at intermittent locks wasting ammo, and ends up contributing next to nothing to the team.

Either bring a buddy who will be a spotter for you, or play LRMs the way you should and pick a nimble chassis so you can fight in the 200-600m range and keep your own locks.

Its always best to just inform the team you are packing LRMs and leave it at that.

Edited by Roughneck45, 27 December 2015 - 11:58 AM.

[Johny Rocket]

Kraftwerkedup, on 27 December 2015 - 11:43 AM, said:

Nope. LRMs are bad.

We've been over this.

How many people from the top groups have to tell you this before you believe them?

Greenduck? Blueduck? Can you please save us from this thread?

The fallacy there is that what works for top groups has any bearing on the other 99% of the player base.

By the way you are talking to someone who has fired 2 mil lrms, 3/4 of that with lrm5s. This doesn't include testing in the training grounds.
I don't need advice from top groups on the subject, Ive tested just about every aspect of it for my self. After all that my go to grind mech is still a KTO 18, why? because it produces consistent results.

What you have is called an opinion, from what I can tell, based on other peoples' opinion.

[ZenFool]

Kraftwerkedup, on 27 December 2015 - 11:43 AM, said:

Nope. LRMs are bad.

We've been over this.

How many people from the top groups have to tell you this before you believe them?

Greenduck? Blueduck? Can you please save us from this thread?

For the same reason these top units don't use ppc/erppc/lbx/ac2/srm/etc. etc. etc. etc. LaserWarrior Online!

[MauttyKoray]

sneeking, on 27 December 2015 - 02:12 AM, said:

Maybe derp shouldn't give the flash and blip, realy it should be an active mod like ecm that needs to be switched on to scatter a signal and reduce accuracy of missiles, increasing spread and arc in flight path so they don't track in so well after losing lost. If they did not buff the missiles themselves but addressed the derp from been a hard cutoff to a increased spread and looser tracking arc.

Then % of spread and arc could be tweaked over time for balance.

Kjudoon, on 27 December 2015 - 02:14 AM, said:

It should also require an ecm slot

Really, it just needs to be changed from 'instantly causes target loss' to 'reduces time a target can be held'.

[Lyoto Machida]

Capt Stern, on 27 December 2015 - 08:25 AM, said:

what a bunch of ******* replies. He didnt say he was standing at the back, and he didnt say he was staying with his group. you tools just assumed one way or the other, and since its human nature to assume the worst, you mostly all assume he is just staying at 900m range.

'get me locks' does NOT translate into 'i am a lazy pos who stand at the back and uses no teamwork'

it simply means TRY AND KEEP YOUR TARGETS AS LONG AS POSSIBLE SO THAT MISSLES ARE MORE EFFECTIVE

when you have your own locks that is great, but thats not how HALF OF EACH MATCH works, EVEN WHEN you STAY WITH YOUR TEAM

you ******* are just a bunch of bandwagon jumping, riot starting, pot stirring jackwagons

Yes, because traditionally over the last few years, it's always been the dual Gauss and laser vomit pilots asking for locks at the beginning of the game.

Am I doing it right?

[Sandpit]

Kjudoon, on 27 December 2015 - 06:40 AM, said:

Alpha striking is a moderate to low risk, high reward actually. that's why people do it. It's the lowest common denominator currently. Like all metas are. Want a challenge? Don't run meta. Meta is only the mathematically most efficient way to win.

easiest way to win you mean

ZenFool, on 27 December 2015 - 12:22 PM, said:

For the same reason these top units don't use ppc/erppc/lbx/ac2/srm/etc. etc. etc. etc. LaserWarrior Online!

for the same reason I've seen every one of those weapons involved in the meta at one time or another.
Do you think this is the first time in 3 years there's been a meta? This is the first time it's ever been energy weapons tho

[Lyoto Machida]

Sandpit, on 27 December 2015 - 12:53 PM, said:

easiest way to win you mean


for the same reason I've seen every one of those weapons involved in the meta at one time or another.
Do you think this is the first time in 3 years there's been a meta? This is the first time it's ever been energy weapons tho

When was the AC2 and/or LBX meta?

[crashlogic]

Its funny how tier 1 and tier five player die under my tier 3 lrms. If i stuck with lrms my tier would be two. Grinding battlemasters has me tier three, playing conquest may send me to four hehehe

Edited by crashlogic, 27 December 2015 - 03:05 PM.

[Sandpit]

Lyoto Machida, on 27 December 2015 - 01:14 PM, said:

When was the AC2 and/or LBX meta?

really?
AC2 was everywhere when they upped the RoF originally. IIRC the first time would have been about midway through OB. They had to be nerfed because the RoF made them the absolute best DPS weapon in the game.

LBX you got me, I can't recall an LBX popularity min/max period

Meta is nothing more than min/max on paper. That's it. That's why the meta shifts every time there's a balance change.

[MercJ]

Extremist Pain, on 26 December 2015 - 03:31 PM, said:

MechWarrior is a team game. Im not sure where this belief that supporting your team is too much. For example, i was just asking for locks in a game and i was told to get my own locks. Im sorry if asking for a contribution is too much, but if you dont feel like being a member of the team, dont play a team based game. You think you can win this game without my help, go ahead and try. Ill enjoy watching you fail.

> Complains about lack of teamplay
> Brings a LRM boat

...

You may not understand why this doesn't add up. It's clear you don't, otherwise you wouldn't have said it I suppose.

Others have probably said it better, so I'll just leave this here: There was a match between some of the top players in MWO - one team brought LRMs, the other Meta (direct fire). LRM team got wrecked. These are good players, by the way.

You can find some of the matches here in Col O'Neill's playlist: https://www.youtube....B5y5I8KQuTvfyVq

Or search "LRMs vs the Meta", or check out reddit.

Point is, LRMs need some help to be any sort of contribution to the team, but so far PGI has been unable to do so without toppling the balance at one tier or another. As for your point about teamplay? Sure, I'll get you some locks while I'm at the front hooking and jabbing with the enemy front line. Just please understand that, in most cases, the mech I've locked will be DEAD by the time your LRMs get there (EDIT: or I'll be dead, one of the two...). I should compile a video of all the times we've targeted a mech, only to kill it in seconds and watch as a steady stream of LRMs come flying from way back and impact a smoking wreck.

"Team play". Hmm. Which team member made more of a contribution with that lock in that (common) situation?

Edited by MercJ, 27 December 2015 - 04:19 PM.

[Kraftwerkedup]

Sandpit, on 27 December 2015 - 12:53 PM, said:

for the same reason I've seen every one of those weapons involved in the meta at one time or another.
Do you think this is the first time in 3 years there's been a meta? This is the first time it's ever been energy weapons tho

Well thats my point to alot of the LRM crowd who asks for locks.

When LRMs are back...you wont have to ask, theyll be there, because its LRMaggedon season. When its not LRMaggedon, put them back in your tool box.

It comes and goes. Its not time right now. It may be again in the future, but LRM boats are currently swimming upstream. No one is going to help you do that, especially at any risk to themselves.

[Kraftwerkedup]

Imagine an LB2 boat, asking for lights to facehump the enemy so they could sit back and snipe.

No ones going to do that specifically for you. Heck if you dont say anything but position well, some arctic cheetah is going to do that for you anyways.

But then imagine LB2s get some crazy buff. Then you dont have to ask anyone to facehump the enemy while you sit back and snipe, because your entire time has LB2s and is doing the same thing you are.

Thats the base thing that irks the people who dont like being asked to hold locks. Youre saying "I dont know what season it is" which immediately puts them off. Im not saying thats right to judge someone immediately like that, but I understand it.

Its like going on on deer season and asking "who brought the fishing lures!". People are gonna look at you weird.

LRMs are in a bad place. They got slightly better last patch but theyre still not a solid weapon system. Theres alot of work to do with the indirect fire, infotech, etc, before we can safely start to say "LRMs are viable".

Im not knocking people as people for taking LRMs, im just saying thats like taking flamers, MGs, or SSRM2s.

When its LRMaggeddon again, every one will know.

Edited by Kraftwerkedup, 27 December 2015 - 01:33 PM.

[Sandpit]

AEgg, on 27 December 2015 - 11:26 AM, said:

Asking for locks is dumb

no offense, but this is exactly the type of thing I'm referring to in giving bad information to new(ish) players and then wondering where they pick up really bad game habits and such.

[Kraftwerkedup]

Though its completely legit to tell new players they dont have to ask for locks. Thats not how it works. Then to gear them towards better mechs that can fill a fire support role.

My response is usually "get a Jagermech".

Were all gonna hit R. You dont have to ask.

I totally agree just saying its dumb, or trolling them, is doing nothing but reinforcing bad habits. Theyre still gonna take LRM mechs, and now theyre going to become callous jerks like the people who told them theyre dumb. Its a vicious cycle.

[Sandpit]

Kraftwerkedup, on 27 December 2015 - 01:28 PM, said:

Well thats my point to alot of the LRM crowd who asks for locks.

When LRMs are back...you wont have to ask, theyll be there, because its LRMaggedon season. When its not LRMaggedon, put them back in your tool box.

It comes and goes. Its not time right now. It may be again in the future, but LRM boats are currently swimming upstream. No one is going to help you do that, especially at any risk to themselves.

I think lurms right now are in a decent spot. THey might could use a little fine tuning, but they're pretty much on par with the other weapon systems in the game. They're great at dealing splash type damage at long distances, but you're not going to get a lot of kills at higher levels.

Lurms are more about support than actual fighting in a lot of cases. Using dumb fire techniques, cycling through targets quickly and launching streams of lurms to turn around a flanking lance, exposing locations by watching for AMS fire, etc. are all MUCH deeper and strategic uses for lurms than simply trying to get kills.

I think some of the min/max and meta players forget (actually I think most if not all of them forget), that their whole play style revolves around the easiest path to victory, not the only path.

With 2-3 decent lurm pilots you can essentially lock down an entire team and make big brawlers pay for pushing, make snipers keep their heads down, provide clearance for your allies to push, and perform a myriad of other strategic actions that result in very little damage but can essentially win a match.
Keeping that assault lance pinned down and unable to participate heavily in a firefight is far more effective to me than getting a kill and doing 500 + damage.

By keeping an entire lance occupied with my lone mech, I essentially create an 11v8 advantage for my team. That can be huge, especially if your pinning down big mechs and firepower.

As with anything in this game, there's a VERY deep strategy for just about every weapon, mech, build, role, etc. it's jsut that some seem to think that their personal limitations or "best" dictate the limitations or best for the entire game and community.

[Mystere]

Kjudoon, on 27 December 2015 - 06:37 AM, said:

Start with a speed of 250m/s maybe 300m/s see what happens.

I had one crazy idea inspired by WOWS though and would make the 3rd person view worthwhile. Use it as a spotter. Get my own locks? Fine, my indestructable 3rd person drone goes up 100m and circles around my mech giving me the ability to see other mechs and shoot them as if out of my own cockpit plus tactical information. Then nobody has to worry about getting me locks anymore. Of course, you don't get this without say equipping LRMs.

It's a rough idea.

UAVs should be given a grid coordinate to travel to at time of launch instead of just going up vertically. And to go even further, do this.