551 replies to this topic

[cazidin]

Just to add to the conversation. A good way to improve LRMs would be about 80-140 M/S for IS and 110-170 for Clan. (Clan LRMs would get faster velocity because they launch in a stream rather than a volley, to make things even against AMS. They'd still have a much longer CD.)

[Johny Rocket]

So much nonsense in this thread.

People arguing both sides from ideal situations not reality.

Some of you must have some magic matrix power that can conjure cover instantly. This whole argument about diving into cover before you get hit is the most laughable. When you have to dive into cover the lurmer already got what he wanted, you are not fighting you are hiding. I spend about half my time doing area denial and funneling. I have no problem finding exposed mechs and beating them senseless.

Ted Wayz brought up some really valuable points. Big fat boats that alpha giant wads are inefficient, most of that wad kills the dirt around the enemy. Fast mediums (90kph+) spamming 4+ lrm5 are hands down the way to go. The speed brings a whole new dynamic that fat slow mechs can't match ever. Lrm5s have the tightest grouping and least loss to broken locks. They also completely blind a target making it difficult to fight back where your lrm10/15/20 blob gives them 3+ sec to escape or even worse alpha you in the face.

Anyone calling for Lrms to not have indirect capabilities, this is BT, go play call of duty. It ain't ever going to happen.

Missile speed is in a good place right now, can't count how many times I've lost lock with 50 lurms in route and managed to pop up and reestablish lock to see them make a sharp turn last sec and hit solid. Lurming ain't easy, if you can't make on the fly calculations you shouldn't be doing it.

Missiles are rarely wasted, other weapons a miss is a miss with lrms their are side benefits, mainly keeping heads down for your teammates, the missile warning did the job even if the missiles kissed rocks.

Could go on but this topic is long dead, haters just won't except that.

Edited by Tractor Joe, 27 December 2015 - 09:09 AM.

[sycocys]

I don't post pictures much, but this is pretty much the exact image I get when someone says anything about LRMs + "I'm suppressing the enemy."

What's far more effective at suppressing the enemy is opening your eyes and shooting them with weapons that actually do damage where you shoot, because nothing makes an enemy back up faster than a cherry red ct.

[Johny Rocket]

sycocys, on 27 December 2015 - 09:23 AM, said:

I don't post pictures much, but this is pretty much the exact image I get when someone says anything about LRMs + "I'm suppressing the enemy."

What's far more effective at suppressing the enemy is opening your eyes and shooting them with weapons that actually do damage where you shoot, because nothing makes an enemy back up faster than a cherry red ct.

yeah because you fight so gloriously from behind your rock.

[Jolly Llama]

Extremist Pain, on 26 December 2015 - 03:31 PM, said:

MechWarrior is a team game. Im not sure where this belief that supporting your team is too much. For example, i was just asking for locks in a game and i was told to get my own locks. Im sorry if asking for a contribution is too much, but if you dont feel like being a member of the team, dont play a team based game. You think you can win this game without my help, go ahead and try. Ill enjoy watching you fail.

Don't ask for locks. I lock everything anyway and appreciate the friendly rain. Asking for locks is like telling a wall how to be a wall. It is wasted speech and is just patronizing. That is why you get hate when you say it.

[Elizander]

My pretty baby has Narc, Tag, 2 LRM15s and 2 LLs. It can do anything.

[Tiger Shark]

It takes a lot of situational awareness of other 23 mechs and terrain to do well in a LRM boat, both in dishing out damage but also area denial that will help the team.
As a medium and light pilot (and drive Hunchback LRM build occasionally), the perception comes from some assaults boating LRMs and sitting back firing tons of LRMs into buildings or mountains while the other lighter mechs soak up the damage.
Win or lose, there will be grief.
1. Team wins, the assault LRM boats get a lot of the damage and kills.
2. Team loses, the team sees the spectator view that the assault LRM boats has almost no battle damage getting focused fired on by lighter mechs and gets eliminated in seconds.
If the LRM boat stays with the group, and step up to share and soak up damage once in a while, I think other pilots on your team will respect what you do well.

[Livewyr]

Realize what you are asking.

For someone to lock long enough for you to use LRMs means:
They sit in view of the enemy for the entire duration of your flight of missiles.
They sit with their CT exposed to the enemy for the duration of your LRM flight.

This means they cannot torso twist or take any other common defensive maneuver while they're locking for you. That's teamwork at the expense of teammates. (Parasitic)

So get your own locks, because only YOUR weapons require a lock to use accurately. (I'd say bring a scout to lock for you, but that takes the place of a more heavily armed mech that could be useful all the time, otherwise.)

[PerfectDuck]

[Johny Rocket]

Livewyr, on 27 December 2015 - 09:44 AM, said:

Realize what you are asking.

For someone to lock long enough for you to use LRMs means:
They sit in view of the enemy for the entire duration of your flight of missiles.
They sit with their CT exposed to the enemy for the duration of your LRM flight.

This means they cannot torso twist or take any other common defensive maneuver while they're locking for you. That's teamwork at the expense of teammates. (Parasitic)

So get your own locks, because only YOUR weapons require a lock to use accurately. (I'd say bring a scout to lock for you, but that takes the place of a more heavily armed mech that could be useful all the time, otherwise.)

You can twist and keep a lock, I do it firing Lrms in close range fights you have over a sec your crosshairs can leave the box and not lose missile lock and spotting its even easier than that all it takes is for them to be in your LOS. You do realize you can peek over cover with out exposing enough of your mech to give the enemy a lock or much of a target if they see you?
No one is asking you to die for that lock. Some noobs trying lrm because they look easy might not get it but most people who say this are letting their team know they have heavy fire support. This is a good thing not a bad thing, knowing your assets lets you play to them.
Im sure you don't mind a bit when the lurmer on your team keeps you from being overran, why would you not want to take advantage of that.

PerfectDuck, on 27 December 2015 - 09:54 AM, said:

Indeed.

Edited by Tractor Joe, 27 December 2015 - 09:59 AM.

[Quaamik]

Its pure selfishness and lack of teamwork to tell someone "get your own locks".

Its a team game. If you notice, your ranking is affected more by win / lose than how much damage you do. So act like a team.

You know the hallmark of good top tier teams? They coordinate. Someone calls out a target and they ALL hit it. Then they move to the next. If your running lasers, ACs, PPCs or SRMs, all you need to do is get the pipper on the target and hit fire. If your running lrms or streaks you have to get lock as well.

If you, as a team member, use "r" and lock your target, and don't switch targets every 30 seconds, That lrm boat can get a lock and keep it even when the enemy ducks under cover. Those missiles, which fly a LOT slower than your lasers or AC, will actually hit home.

If you play the "you gotta suck up damage from the front" excuse, refuse to lock targets or refuse to hold your locks long enough to make a difference, what you are saying is that you would rather be short a person than let the guy with the lrm boat be effective. You are saying you would rather lose than see this guy be effective.

Or perhaps you really believe that someone who has a bunch of lrms, tonnage for ammo and a BAP, and an energy hard point occupied by TAG, has enough spare weaponry to be more than minimally effective in a face to face brawl? Or maybe you think the best tactic is for them to stand out and soak up laser and AC fire while they wait for their missiles to reach the target? A target that will get missed as it ducks back in cover because NO ONE ELSE HELD A LOCK ON IT.


As others have said its best to just tell your team what you have. "LRM boat here" or "LRM 40 here". Its also a good idea for anyone else who has a specific build (brawler, sniper, ECM & triple AMS). The next best I've seen for getting a good response is to offer assistance. "LRMs here, hold locks and call targets if you want assistance". Lastly, the "LRM boat, please hold locks" and then ignore the haters.

[MechWarrior3671771]

Livewyr, on 27 December 2015 - 09:44 AM, said:

Realize what you are asking.

For someone to lock long enough for you to use LRMs means:
They sit in view of the enemy for the entire duration of your flight of missiles.
They sit with their CT exposed to the enemy for the duration of your LRM flight.

My scout moves while its getting locks, usually at around 146kph

My scout also holds locks while shooting other unlocked targets

So these arguments that "the LRMer is demanding we risk our mechs for face time" doesn't ring true to me. Its a false argument and is what makes me wonder what the real reason is. I think its beause people are still upset from all the indirect fire they took last month. Or because they want to ditch AMS for an extra 1.5 tons of weight and space. Or something. But the hate is not about LRMers asking to hold locks. That's just an excuse.

[Kraftwerkedup]

Tractor Joe, on 27 December 2015 - 09:07 AM, said:

Some of you must have some magic matrix power that can conjure cover instantly.

Lotta locks.

No LRMs.

Instant cover.

Get better? =D

[Kraftwerkedup]

Just ignore the part about TCAF losing to GP's PUG group lol

Never happened.




Not one LRM in the entire match lol

Come on bros....dont be a jerkwad about people telling you they dont care about your Lrmcapade.

Its your choice.

No one is "holding locks for you". Thats now how the game works, and by asking for them, youre saying you dont understand the game, which instantly puts us on a bad footing with you.

[Kraftwerkedup]

Tractor Joe, on 27 December 2015 - 09:32 AM, said:

yeah because you fight so gloriously from behind your rock.

http://mwomercs.com/...n-to-use-cover/

From 2013...

"Because when 1 volley of LRMs headshots you and the LRM warning gives you 3 seconds to react, using cover is really an option.

People are pretty ignorant.


Heck while I'm ranting, might as well say it's pretty stupid when your DDC teammate has no weapons with ranges over 270m, yet sits next to the missile boat "giving ECM cover" when the enemy has no LRMs. Same guy does 200 damage, but manages to get 2 kill steals because he waits for his team to die before engaging. Learn what Atlases are for please.

EDIT: Some people are dense. Read the sarcasm. LRMs are broken. "

lol

That horse still needs some more flogging boys. SHE HAS LIFE IN HER YET

Edited by Kraftwerkedup, 27 December 2015 - 10:25 AM.

[Johny Rocket]

Kraftwerkedup, on 27 December 2015 - 10:16 AM, said:

Lotta locks.

No LRMs.

Instant cover.

Get better? =D

So you have to qualify this point in a Light with broken hit boxes going 142kph on the worst map for missiles, when the only lrm mech they have is an Assault.

hmm

[Ultimax]

Satan n stuff, on 27 December 2015 - 05:59 AM, said:

Remember when LRMs only needed to be locked at launch to home in on a target?

If they were fire and forget, but with no ability for indirect fire, I would actually like them.

[JC Daxion]

Livewyr, on 27 December 2015 - 09:44 AM, said:

Realize what you are asking.

For someone to lock long enough for you to use LRMs means:
They sit in view of the enemy for the entire duration of your flight of missiles.
They sit with their CT exposed to the enemy for the duration of your LRM flight.

This means they cannot torso twist or take any other common defensive maneuver while they're locking for you. That's teamwork at the expense of teammates. (Parasitic)

So get your own locks, because only YOUR weapons require a lock to use accurately. (I'd say bring a scout to lock for you, but that takes the place of a more heavily armed mech that could be useful all the time, otherwise.)

BS... Spot from a place they can't directly see you while waiting for people to group up on a flank..

Play a light that is meant to brawl with the heavies..

Play a brawler or light with 360 module..

Snipers spotting from an area that can't be hit by the target, or other team members..

there are so many ways to grab locks and hold them it's not even funny...



LRMers often are with the group, helping push, helping tank, and such as well... SO many BS stereo types in this thread it makes me sick...

[Johny Rocket]

JC Daxion, on 27 December 2015 - 10:34 AM, said:

BS... Spot from a place they can't directly see you while waiting for people to group up on a flank..

Play a light that is meant to brawl with the heavies..

Play a brawler or light with 360 module..

Snipers spotting from an area that can't be hit by the target, or other team members..

there are so many ways to grab locks and hold them it's not even funny...



LRMers often are with the group, helping push, helping tank, and such as well... SO many BS stereo types in this thread it makes me sick...

Indeed.
Haters going to hate baters going to bate an the world keeps spinning.

Most don't have any real clue what they are talking about and choose to just talk down those who do.

[Mamonar]

Asking for locks is so 2012...