551 replies to this topic

[Hotthedd]

sneeking, on 27 December 2015 - 12:48 AM, said:

Today im running a hbk-4sp 2×lrm10 4xmL and a tag, i use the tag for my own launchers but won't stay put for you ( quite simply the hunch has been nerfed into the dirt and is squishy as fk ) i cant afford to stay there and take fire.

the r button i use to let you know about a flank or a run on our base, again hunch is too squishy to leave the controls idle while i type crap about it.

Are you kidding? We must pilot very different HBK-4SPs because mine is quite tanky. It is also a VERY good 'mech for holding locks with the extra module slot if you equip a 360 target module.

[Mystere]

Kjudoon, on 27 December 2015 - 03:48 AM, said:

And while not removing indirect fire which is the one mechanic they posses that makes them worth while what change WOULD be acceptable? Indirect fire is lore and the only thing keeping them from being a very slow guided lbx weapon that can easily be parri3d electronically or have damage reduced.

Double to quadruple the speed for starters.

[Kjudoon]

Mystere, on 27 December 2015 - 06:27 AM, said:

Double to quadruple the speed for starters.

Start with a speed of 250m/s maybe 300m/s see what happens.

I had one crazy idea inspired by WOWS though and would make the 3rd person view worthwhile. Use it as a spotter. Get my own locks? Fine, my indestructable 3rd person drone goes up 100m and circles around my mech giving me the ability to see other mechs and shoot them as if out of my own cockpit plus tactical information. Then nobody has to worry about getting me locks anymore. Of course, you don't get this without say equipping LRMs.

It's a rough idea.

[Satan n stuff]

Ted Wayz, on 27 December 2015 - 06:05 AM, said:

Heh?

Everyone go to their profiles and check their weapon stats. Pull up your stat on LRMs and everyone come back that are hitting 70 to 100% of the time. It doesn't happen because of terrain, AMS, loss of lock and hit reg. If you are in the 40 to 50% overall you are doing good. Even with Artemis.

Now if you are saying that if you are on target and none of the other conditions apply you get 100% on hits, and alphas are how you kill, good luck with that. Missile damage is spread, it doesn't all go to the CT like it used to. You are more than likely to hit an arm or leg.

My KDR in the Kintaro is what it is because I pick out the right targets at the right time. I then lock on that target and commence the missile ******* using LRM 5's. Why? Because they chain fire fast, low heat, have low tonnage and take up one slot so you can pack ammo, and if something interrupts my attack or I need to abate I won't lose much ammo. This is important because even with 1800 LRMs I still occasionally run out. You screw up one LRM 80 attack (and I see this happen all the time) there goes a good chunk of ammo.

The key though is mobility. If you are a kiter you need to constantly move, especially if you draw someones interest. You need to give them the illusion they can catch you before you cut them down. My favorites are the ones that come after you but then realize they are screwed and try and disengage. Those are the high point targets, especially if it is an assault, which can net you a solo kill and 100 damage easy.

But if you say large load outs and alphaing with missiles are the way to go I will take your word on it.

Was that first part really necessary? I was perfectly clear in what I meant, as evidenced by the rest of that post.

Alphaing is high risk, high reward but if you've verified a good target before you even get the lock it almost completely eliminates the risk. I fire an alpha and assuming I did my job right ( verified clear flight path and a friendly has LOS at launch ) , I will hit with most or all of it, if I chainfire I am more or less guaranteed to either waste a whole bunch of missiles each time I lose lock or simply not hit much of anything because I can't fire missiles fast enough.

What normally happens when a good player gets incoming missiles is they break contact immediately and take cover if possible, so the first second or so on target is all you're going to get, that's a whopping 15 missiles with chain LRM5s.
Worse, just one AMS will reduce that to about 6 missiles whereas even an LRM30 alpha would have more than 20 missiles when it hits.

Now as for the actual damage output of an LRM alpha versus anything else, it is a non issue because LRMs can be fired over friendlies and obstructing terrain. An LRM boat at the back end of the main blob or behind a building or whatever is going to be much more effective than a laserboat or dakkaboat that can't shoot anything because something is in the way.

Edited by Satan n stuff, 27 December 2015 - 06:38 AM.

[Kjudoon]

Alpha striking is a moderate to low risk, high reward actually. that's why people do it. It's the lowest common denominator currently. Like all metas are. Want a challenge? Don't run meta. Meta is only the mathematically most efficient way to win.

[Hotthedd]

Kjudoon, on 27 December 2015 - 03:48 AM, said:

And while not removing indirect fire which is the one mechanic they posses that makes them worth while what change WOULD be acceptable? Indirect fire is lore and the only thing keeping them from being a very slow guided lbx weapon that can easily be parri3d electronically or have damage reduced.

I think people are confusing indirect fire (which is needed) with auto-lock (which is a bad mechanic).

I would suggest the ability (and necessity) to AIM to LRMs to target. Fire the salvo and let the missiles track the crosshairs. Of course missile speed would have to be improved, but good pilots could be deadly, while the bad pilots would kill a lot of buildings and rocks.

Kjudoon, on 27 December 2015 - 06:40 AM, said:

Alpha striking is a moderate to low risk, high reward actually. that's why people do it. It's the lowest common denominator currently. Like all metas are. Want a challenge? Don't run meta. Meta is only the mathematically most efficient way to win.

With the current heat system, Alpha striking is zero risk highest reward. Alpha striking is the ONLY real "meta" in MW:O that has NEVER changed.

[Kjudoon]

Hotthedd, on 27 December 2015 - 06:47 AM, said:

I think people are confusing indirect fire (which is needed) with auto-lock (which is a bad mechanic).

I would suggest the ability (and necessity) to AIM to LRMs to target. Fire the salvo and let the missiles track the crosshairs. Of course missile speed would have to be improved, but good pilots could be deadly, while the bad pilots would kill a lot of buildings and rocks.


With the current heat system, Alpha striking is zero risk highest reward. Alpha striking is the ONLY real "meta" in MW:O that has NEVER changed.

Give me the ability to target individual component precision with LRM targetting just like laservomit and I will be a happy little death machine.

[Hotthedd]

Kjudoon, on 27 December 2015 - 06:49 AM, said:

Give me the ability to target individual component precision with LRM targetting just like laservomit and I will be a happy little death machine.

Exactly! The idea is to increase the skill needed to do that, but make LRMs as effective as all the other weapon systems.

[JaxRiot]

LRMs anger the Meta Gods. Even the mighty Timby will fall to a barrage of LRMs when they have a hard lock on them with no way of defending themselves. This makes the Meta Gods furious because they cant melt face with their Meta build, and they begin insulting LRM users. Calling them Lazy and No Skill in an effort to shame them into not using LRMs or face them on the battlefield so that their Meta Builds can fight back, giving their Meta Build the advantage again.

LRMs strength has always been indirect fire support. To tell LRM boats to get their own locks to basically telling them to use LRMs as LoS weapons, which in my mind is counter productive to LRMs since they are tragically outmatched by other weapons that actually are LoS weapons.

Even if a LRM player brings Artemis, TAG, BAP and maybe even NARC, they still invested a lot of tonnage to still be crappy LoS weapons and still easily out matched by more effective LoS weapons.

People who refuse to press R just to deny LRMs the opportunity to help them just because they want to protest LRMs are only hurting their own team.

Ive recently started playing LRMs again to see how they work after the balance pass, and they are definitely more effective now, and I am seeing a lot more AMS which tells me that people are noticing.

Edited by JaxRiot, 27 December 2015 - 07:10 AM.

[Ted Wayz]

As a note, LRMs as LOS are still valuable because you can fire over team members, not through them.

[Ted Wayz]

Satan n stuff, on 27 December 2015 - 06:37 AM, said:

Was that first part really necessary? I was perfectly clear in what I meant, as evidenced by the rest of that post.

Alphaing is high risk, high reward but if you've verified a good target before you even get the lock it almost completely eliminates the risk. I fire an alpha and assuming I did my job right ( verified clear flight path and a friendly has LOS at launch ) , I will hit with most or all of it, if I chainfire I am more or less guaranteed to either waste a whole bunch of missiles each time I lose lock or simply not hit much of anything because I can't fire missiles fast enough.

What normally happens when a good player gets incoming missiles is they break contact immediately and take cover if possible, so the first second or so on target is all you're going to get, that's a whopping 15 missiles with chain LRM5s.
Worse, just one AMS will reduce that to about 6 missiles whereas even an LRM30 alpha would have more than 20 missiles when it hits.

Now as for the actual damage output of an LRM alpha versus anything else, it is a non issue because LRMs can be fired over friendlies and obstructing terrain. An LRM boat at the back end of the main blob or behind a building or whatever is going to be much more effective than a laserboat or dakkaboat that can't shoot anything because something is in the way.

How can they break lock if I keep them LOS? That is the key to kiting, locking and maintaining lock and shaking the heck out of them continuously so they have difficulty firing back.

Agree with being able to fire over friendlies, but that means I have to keep up with them. That is why LRM boats need to be mobile for the most part. And if you are keeping up then you can get your own locks, correct? Not sure what you mean by not being able to fire fast enough. LRM 5s fire so fast that sometimes, if you have 5 in chain fire, the first and last groups overlap due to the minuscule cool down.

Pretty sure with LRM 5s on chain fire I can out DPS an LRM 30 boat (3xLRM 10?). And have less ammo and heat issues. While the alpha guy is setting up the perfect shot I am spewing missiles like crazy. And I will shoot off one LRM 5 at targets over 400m just to get the assist. Bank!

[Imperius]

JaxRiot, on 27 December 2015 - 07:05 AM, said:

LRMs anger the Meta Gods. Even the mighty Timby will fall to a barrage of LRMs when they have a hard lock on them with no way of defending themselves. This makes the Meta Gods furious because they cant melt face with their Meta build, and they begin insulting LRM users. Calling them Lazy and No Skill in an effort to shame them into not using LRMs or face them on the battlefield so that their Meta Builds can fight back, giving their Meta Build the advantage again.

LRMs strength has always been indirect fire support. To tell LRM boats to get their own locks to basically telling them to use LRMs as LoS weapons, which in my mind is counter productive to LRMs since they are tragically outmatched by other weapons that actually are LoS weapons.

Even if a LRM player brings Artemis, TAG, BAP and maybe even NARC, they still invested a lot of tonnage to still be crappy LoS weapons and still easily out matched by more effective LoS weapons.

People who refuse to press R just to deny LRMs the opportunity to help them just because they want to protest LRMs are only hurting their own team.

Ive recently started playing LRMs again to see how they work after the balance pass, and they are definitely more effective now, and I am seeing a lot more AMS which tells me that people are noticing.

Dude... Take any meta mech and your LRM boat and let me know how your one on one goes.

[Satan n stuff]

Imperius, on 27 December 2015 - 08:00 AM, said:

Dude... Take any meta mech and your LRM boat and let me know how your one on one goes.

Since when is this game one on one?

[Zibmo]

Ted Wayz, on 27 December 2015 - 07:44 AM, said:

As a note, LRMs as LOS are still valuable because you can fire over team members, not through them.

Or LRM scout by firing a single set over a specific area to watch where AMS comes from.

[WarPickle]

Can't tell you how many times I was specing after death and how many players have absolutely zero sense to hit the R button.

It's actually quite infuriating to watch... just press the damn R button already! I don't run LRM boats I mostly brawl but you can be damned sure I'm pressing R on everything

I don't think it's too much to ask judging by the player bases ignorance of targeting.. I mean seriously at the very least you should be doing it to see what parts are crit....

[Zibmo]

Satan n stuff, on 27 December 2015 - 08:01 AM, said:

Since when is this game one on one?

No point. The meta lovers will yell at you that this is a team game until their precious loadout is criticized in which case they will immediately go all zellbrigen and ****.

Save your keyboard. Don't feed the trolls.

[JaxRiot]

Imperius, on 27 December 2015 - 08:00 AM, said:

Dude... Take any meta mech and your LRM boat and let me know how your one on one goes.

Isnt that what I said?

Did you even read the part where I said that LRMs strength is Indirect fire Support? Key word there being Support. Not solo one on one.

I also said that LRMs are tragically outmatched as LoS weapons, so naturally they wont do well against Point and Shoot focus fire Meta Builds in a one vs one fight.

LRMs are not for face to face Brawling like the Meta Builds are. They are team assist weapons, meant to assist the brawlers.

Edited by JaxRiot, 27 December 2015 - 08:23 AM.

[Capt Stern]

what a bunch of ******* replies. He didnt say he was standing at the back, and he didnt say he was staying with his group. you tools just assumed one way or the other, and since its human nature to assume the worst, you mostly all assume he is just staying at 900m range.

'get me locks' does NOT translate into 'i am a lazy pos who stand at the back and uses no teamwork'

it simply means TRY AND KEEP YOUR TARGETS AS LONG AS POSSIBLE SO THAT MISSLES ARE MORE EFFECTIVE

when you have your own locks that is great, but thats not how HALF OF EACH MATCH works, EVEN WHEN you STAY WITH YOUR TEAM

you ******* are just a bunch of bandwagon jumping, riot starting, pot stirring jackwagons

[Kira Onime]

Sure, I'll be locking onto enemies if I can when facing them, but I'm not gona force myself out of my way to get a lock for you is that implies I have to facetank enemies to get it.

As an LRM boat in a game, it is your responsibility to be able to get locks on your own, whatever your team gives you is a bonus.

[martian]

Capt Stern, on 27 December 2015 - 08:25 AM, said:

what a bunch of ******* replies.
...
you ******* are just a bunch of bandwagon jumping, riot starting, pot stirring jackwagons

Thank you for your valuable insights.

And as for LRMs, usually I do not use them, but when I take them, I do not ask people to "hold locks" for me. I have TAG and BAP and I can get my own locks, if needed.