166 replies to this topic

[Fractis Zero]

I think the Rifleman will be fine. If PGI stays with their Unseen formula the Rifleman will have some beefy structure quirks which should ease the pain of running an XL. As a 60 ton mech the only way this thing runs a STD is if you only use one ballistic.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

627, on 10 February 2016 - 02:12 AM, said:

You ever saw a Jagermech? 8 out of 10 have an XL despite the hitbox problems.

It seems like you're trying to argue with me over which kind of engine better suits the torso shape despite agreeing with me.

I didn't say 'nobody will run an XL in it'. Given how many people run XL engines in Jaegers, Blackjacks, and other 'mechs with standard engine inclined torsos, that would be a literally stupid thing to say. Same goes for the curiously frequent (that is to say, much more than warranted) appearance of standard engine dragons and certain other 'mechs.

Please don't read things into what I say that were not what I actually said.

[Le Bum]

On a more positive note, 60 ton Blackjack.

The RFL-5L is basically a large BJ1-X

Edited by Le Bum, 10 February 2016 - 11:57 AM.

[Dawnstealer]

Prosperity Park, on 10 February 2016 - 10:30 AM, said:

What's wrong with viewing the Rifleman as a -5 ton Firebrand? Hardpoints align nicely, as does lack of JJs and the speeds will be similar (Rifleman can achieve slightly higher speeds)

Viewing it as "A Blackjack" means to avoid running more than 1 autocannon unless it's a pair of AC/2s, and planning to Jump Jet around for mobility. The Rifleman had much more potential for using more than 1 ballistic weapon and it cannot jump.

Because the nastiest versions of the Jagermech have pretty thin armor and are pretty fragile - glass cannons is kind of their reputation: can pour out the damage, but can't take it.

Now lose five tons - you're either running hotter, running less weapons, or running less armor. And you'll be running less armor regardless, so add that to the equation. As others have said, it'll probably have good structure quirks, but you're still going to run into that three-part problem.

Think of it as a less mobile, heavier Blackjack, and you'll probably come up with better builds. So where a BJ would have AC2s, the Rifleman would have two AC5s (whereas the Jag would have 2 AC20s and you could try stuffing two AC10s in there). Get it? So build it solid.

Like the MADs and WMR, I'll probably make mine with a STD (at least most of them, although I'll play with an XL and see how it runs). So my builds will be more aimed at sustained damage and survivability, rather than trying to make a pure DPS monster like the Jag.

Edited by Dawnstealer, 10 February 2016 - 11:58 AM.

[Odanan]

LegendaryArticuno, on 10 February 2016 - 10:58 AM, said:

Novacat would've been a better choice of ballistic Mechs than the rifleman.

What????

EDIT: even if you disregard the fact the Nova Cat is out of the timeline in at least 7 years, lets examine the real Nova Cat (not that MW4 thing):

Nova Cat, 70 tons, 64.8 km/h (without speed tweak).
ES, 1 DHS locked inside the engine; criticals of legs, center torso and head locked by structure.

Nova Cat Prime:

RA 2e
RT
CT
H
LT
LA 3e

Nova Cat A:

RA 2e
RT 2 jumpjets
CT
H
LT 2 jumpjets
LA 2e

Nova Cat B:

RA 3m
RT 1e
CT
H
LT 1e
LA 3m

Nova Cat C:

RA 2b 3b
RT
CT
H
LT
LA 2e

With those low arm hardpoints, with only one omni configuration ("variant") with ballistics, and those 2 3 ballistics in the same arm (you can't even put 2 big ballistic weapons there), no, the Nova Cat wouldn't be a better ballistics mech than the Rifleman! Never.

I know the Nova Cat has a cult, but forgive me MW4 and MWLL fans, the real one it's not the same mech you are used to.

EDIT: 3, not 2 ballistic hardpoints.

EDIT2: Don't want to offend those who grew up with MW4. It's just the game changed so much all mechs (specially with that "generic" hardpoints) that what people got use there might not be true in MWO, who follows the TT stats.

Edited by Odanan, 10 February 2016 - 06:13 PM.

[Luscious Dan]

Odanan, on 10 February 2016 - 12:28 PM, said:

What????

I like to think he was being sarcastic... no smiley though, can't be sure

[MittenMarauder]

TELEFORCE, on 09 February 2016 - 03:38 PM, said:

The Rifleman looks great!

As someone that got into Battletech because of the Rifleman (it was my first tabletop battlemech), I agree it looks outstanding. I cannot wait to use mine.

[Odanan]

Luscious Dan, on 10 February 2016 - 01:19 PM, said:

I like to think he was being sarcastic... no smiley though, can't be sure

It would work as sarcastic...

Anyway, while we are at the Rifleman subject:

[Luscious Dan]

Note the higher energy mount on the hero mech, relative to the standard 3N variant. Would be interesting to see if hard point locations (and not just quirks) help differentiate the models, it would give some an edge as long ranged hill humpers. Subtle, but potentially having an impact on gameplay.

CT energy hard points will be interesting as well, to see if they go on the chin or the forehead of the 5D.

[Navid A1]

Odanan, on 10 February 2016 - 12:28 PM, said:

What????

EDIT: even if you disregard the fact the Nova Cat is out of the timeline in at least 7 years, lets examine the real Nova Cat (not that MW4 thing):

Nova Cat, 70 tons, 64.8 km/h (without speed tweak).
ES, 1 DHS locked inside the engine; criticals of legs, center torso and head locked by structure.

Nova Cat Prime:

RA 2e
RT
CT
H
LT
LA 3e

Nova Cat A:

RA 2e
RT 2 jumpjets
CT
H
LT 2 jumpjets
LA 2e

Nova Cat B:

RA 3m
RT 1e
CT
H
LT 1e
LA 3m

Nova Cat C:

RA 2b
RT
CT
H
LT
LA 2e

With those low arm hardpoints, with only one omni configuration ("variant") with ballistics, and those 2 ballistics in the same arm (you can't even put 2 big ballistic weapons there), no, the Nova Cat wouldn't be a better ballistics mech than the Rifleman! Never.

I know the Nova Cat has a cult, but forgive me MW4 and MWLL fans, the real one it's not the same mech you are used to.

I'm from the Nova Cat cult and we do not know what is that MW4 you speak of.

Also, regarding the time line,... we already have Kodiaks from 3063. so please spare us...

[White Bear 84]

ThomasMarik, on 09 February 2016 - 03:01 PM, said:

Let the rifleing commence!

Let the Riflememing commence!

[Kshat]

Odanan, on 10 February 2016 - 12:28 PM, said:

Nova Cat C:

RA 2b
RT
CT
H
LT
LA 2e

Wait, SARNA said that the C got different hardpoints.

Quote

The C configuration, like the B is not all energy weapons, and is equipped with two Ultra AC/5s, one LB 5-X AC and Two Large Pulse Lasers. This makes it very potent against aircraft.

Which sounds eeriely similar to the rifleman's role description.... but nevertheless: you can't fit that ballistic loadout in only two ballistic hardpoints.
And it doesn't matter that just one Omni-Variant got ballistics. If ONE omni has a special pod to offer, EVERY omni can use that pod.
And a 70t Clan-Cataphract would be lovely... too sad it is a "cheap" omni and skimps on weight saving materials.

P.S.: Would've loved to see that RADOM-like antenna pictured above. Reminds me of the Macross-fighters built for electronic warfare.
If there would exist a version with ECM, switching the antenna model to the RADOM one would be beyond epic.

[Pariah Devalis]

Kshat, on 10 February 2016 - 02:35 PM, said:

Wait, SARNA said that the C got different hardpoints.



Which sounds eeriely similar to the rifleman's role description.... but nevertheless: you can't fit that ballistic loadout in only two ballistic hardpoints.
And it doesn't matter that just one Omni-Variant got ballistics. If ONE omni has a special pod to offer, EVERY omni can use that pod.
And a 70t Clan-Cataphract would be lovely... too sad it is a "cheap" omni and skimps on weight saving materials.

P.S.: Would've loved to see that RADOM-like antenna pictured above. Reminds me of the Macross-fighters built for electronic warfare.
If there would exist a version with ECM, switching the antenna model to the RADOM one would be beyond epic.

It's "cheap" but by design. Because of the smaller engine it still packs ~38 tons of pod space. Meanwhile, having no FF or ES means it has all the crit slots you could ever ask for. You could easily toss on two UAC10, 5 tons of ammo, THREE SRM6 with Artemis, 3 tons of ammo, and 2 ERMLas.

On a 70 ton mech. Yeah. Do want.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 10 February 2016 - 02:49 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

I think the JagerMech and Rifleman should get Sensor Range and Target Info Gathering quirks.

[Epicfail198]

Siriously, are the Hardpoints that different on the LK to the 3N ?
I mean its closely the same variant, so why isn the LL undermounted like on the 3N instead of being part of the vent above?

[Luscious Dan]

Again, it could be a matter of changing up the Hero for a different role. If it's hard points and quirks lend itself to long range, while the other one is more brawly (extra structure, cooldown quirks, etc.), for example.

Or, it could just be that the Legend Killer can mount dual ballistics in either arm, and the lower portion is being reserved for the ballistic weapon that wouldn't fit properly in the higher mount?

[Odanan]

Kshat, on 10 February 2016 - 02:35 PM, said:

Wait, SARNA said that the C got different hardpoints.

You are right, the Right Arm has 3 Ballistics, not 2. Still, you couldn't fit many big guns there.

Kshat, on 10 February 2016 - 02:35 PM, said:

Which sounds eeriely similar to the rifleman's role description.... but nevertheless: you can't fit that ballistic loadout in only two ballistic hardpoints.
And it doesn't matter that just one Omni-Variant got ballistics. If ONE omni has a special pod to offer, EVERY omni can use that pod.
And a 70t Clan-Cataphract would be lovely... too sad it is a "cheap" omni and skimps on weight saving materials.

P.S.: Would've loved to see that RADOM-like antenna pictured above. Reminds me of the Macross-fighters built for electronic warfare.
If there would exist a version with ECM, switching the antenna model to the RADOM one would be beyond epic.

The Rifleman IIC should have the "hat" (see my Photoshop edit above).

PS: Nothing against the Nova Cat (even if I think the Night Gyr is much better), but there is no point in comparing it with the Rifleman.

Edited by Odanan, 10 February 2016 - 04:01 PM.

[Odanan]

Navid A1, on 10 February 2016 - 02:29 PM, said:

I'm from the Nova Cat cult and we do not know what is that MW4 you speak of.

Also, regarding the time line,... we already have Kodiaks from 3063. so please spare us...

Yeah, but at least the Kodiak is a chassis from 3001... it also helps the fact the Kodiak 5 is from 3052, meaning the 2, 3 and 4 existed at least in project/prototype.

Edited by Odanan, 10 February 2016 - 03:41 PM.

[Luscious Dan]

Assuming there's logic to all the old retcons and whatnot, it does make sense that the Kodiak 2/3/4 variants existed at the same time as the 5... anyway this isn't a Kodiak/Nova Cat thread is it? I thought we were here to drool over the Rifleman

[TELEFORCE]

What's up with the laser hardpoint placement on the Legend Killer? I think it would look much better if the lasers were like the other variants and had long barrels slung below the ballistics

Maybe it's dependent on the size of the AC in the arms? Maybe anything bigger than a Class 5 AC will push the lasers to the top of the arm?