1212 replies to this topic

[New Breed]

if they put in the blood asp and mad cat mk2 I'd probably never have to buy any more stompy robits

[SkaerKrow]

Actually, the more that I think of it, the more that I believe that the Viper is basically a lock for Wave 4.

[Metus regem]

SkaerKrow, on 27 February 2016 - 08:53 PM, said:

Actually, the more that I think of it, the more that I believe that the Viper is basically a lock for Wave 4.

Ugh I hope not.... Oversized Engine, 8 locked JJ's giving it only 8.5t of pod space....

The Coyotl is such a better Mech, the Prime has 2E 2M, 15t of pod space everything is cockpit level (1E 1M) or above (1E 1M). It is also 10kph slower than the Viper, 280xl in the Coyotl vs 320xl in the Viper, the Coyotl A has 7 JJ's still giving it 11.5t of pod space with a CT mounted 1E just under the cockpit. Only thing she's missing is a third variant, something that hasn't stopped PGI in the past.

[SkaerKrow]

Yeah, I appreciate that the design isn't optimal. I don't believe that it's DoA though, especially not with the potential changes coming to the capturing mechanic and Conquest, but the pod space is pretty skinny. That said, I suspect that PGI will roll out as many of the classic Omnimech designs as possible, and unlike the Fire Moth (which is too much Dash for CryEngine to handle), there's really nothing holding the Viper back.

[1453 R]

Why do people have such a weird hard-on for the Coyotl? it is outright bad. It's either a 2E/2M or a 3E/2M, and if those hardpoint counts were sufficient on ~15 tons of weaponry, the Shadow Cat would be good.

Is the Shadow Cat good?

The Viper is categorically superior to the Coyotl in any regard that matters on the field. Faster, same armor, better jump capability, and its lack of pod space is offset by having a metric nut-ton of hardpoints to shove small guns into. The Viper is a 40-ton Clan Ember waiting to happen - so make it happen.

Anyways. The Phantom would also be amusing, mostly for its Jenner IIC-level warp drive and the ability to mount more cERSL THAN YOUR BODY HAS ROOM FOR. ...as well as ECM. I would take either 'Mech, really. And I would take both of them without the faintest blink over the useless friggin' Coyotl @_@

Edited by 1453 R, 27 February 2016 - 09:17 PM.

[ScarecrowES]

Like it or not, the Black Lanner got the most requests in Russ's informal poll other than the Kodiak. If PGI wanted to give the community what it asks for, you'd likely be looking at the Blanner in the medium slot, and the Linebacker in the heavy. I mean, if we're doing an omni pack.

[CK16]

My issue is can we not get a Wave 2 like package here with 3 almost useless mechs and 1 ok one? Say what you want but Wave 2 IMO was a flop for PGI.

[SkaerKrow]

ScarecrowES, on 27 February 2016 - 09:25 PM, said:

Like it or not, the Black Lanner got the most requests in Russ's informal poll other than the Kodiak. If PGI wanted to give the community what it asks for, you'd likely be looking at the Blanner in the medium slot, and the Linebacker in the heavy. I mean, if we're doing an omni pack.

Other than the goofy appearance, I don't have a particular issue with the Black Lanner. It seems like it will basically be a Stormcrow that loses a good amount of pod space in favor of a lot of maneuverability. Fits into the general time period that we're currently in and has plenty of variants with current tech. I didn't realize that it had received quite so much support in the community.

[TheArisen]

1453 R, on 27 February 2016 - 09:16 PM, said:

Why do people have such a weird hard-on for the Coyotl? it is outright bad. It's either a 2E/2M or a 3E/2M, and if those hardpoint counts were sufficient on ~15 tons of weaponry, the Shadow Cat would be good.

Is the Shadow Cat good?

The Viper is categorically superior to the Coyotl in any regard that matters on the field. Faster, same armor, better jump capability, and its lack of pod space is offset by having a metric nut-ton of hardpoints to shove small guns into. The Viper is a 40-ton Clan Ember waiting to happen - so make it happen.

Anyways. The Phantom would also be amusing, mostly for its Jenner IIC-level warp drive and the ability to mount more cERSL THAN YOUR BODY HAS ROOM FOR. ...as well as ECM. I would take either 'Mech, really. And I would take both of them without the faintest blink over the useless friggin' Coyotl @_@

The Coyotl could have a lot of it's problems fixed with it's 3rd variant giving it more hardpoints. The Viper would be good but it's duck bill would be a bullet magnet. The Phantom would be a solid choice as well but it'd be restricted to one ore two builds.

[1453 R]

TheArisen, on 27 February 2016 - 11:32 PM, said:

The Coyotl could have a lot of it's problems fixed with it's 3rd variant giving it more hardpoints. The Viper would be good but it's duck bill would be a bullet magnet. The Phantom would be a solid choice as well but it'd be restricted to one ore two builds.

And the Coyotl being literally a jet plane with feet doesn't have any kind of protruding-proboscis problem?



I don't see how the Viper would be significantly worse than this, post-Alex. Yeah, the skyhook energy hardpoint is nice, but nobody goes sniping with one energy mount in a forty-tonner. Yeah, if Piranha whole-cloth's a variant with 6e it'd probably fly, but c'mon. Let's be reasonable here and assume they don't basically reinvent the 'Mech. It's still a weird screwball one-off that's basically the Clan Mackie, currently discontinued by the one Clan (which is a homeworld Clan nobody can play as) who has ever used it.

How is this something that gets the nod over a first-wave Classic Omni like the Viper?

[ScarecrowES]

SkaerKrow, on 27 February 2016 - 09:52 PM, said:

Other than the goofy appearance, I don't have a particular issue with the Black Lanner. It seems like it will basically be a Stormcrow that loses a good amount of pod space in favor of a lot of maneuverability. Fits into the general time period that we're currently in and has plenty of variants with current tech. I didn't realize that it had received quite so much support in the community.

Many players have a high amount of aversion to "over-engined" mechs... that is, mechs with relatively lower pod space to gross tonnage ratios due to (most often) larger-than-necessary engines or sub-optimal equipment setups (no endo, undesirable fixed equipment, etc).

The Black Lanner fits into this category of mechs. It trades away weapons for engine, which many players hate. Same argument against the Linebacker. Otherwise, both mechs fit well into the current meta and are capable of mounting solid builds RELATIVE TO THEIR POD SPACE. That last part I wanted to emphasize, because I think it's important. There's often much focus on just how much pod space you get for a given tonnage of mech... "this 65 ton mech gets as much tonnage space as another 55 ton mech, so it's not as good." Very little attention is paid to what you can do with that tonnage, which is vastly more important. Often excluded from the realization that you've got a larger mech sporting the pod space of a lighter one is that you're often sporting the speed and manueverability of the lighter one too, while retaining the structure and armor of the heavier mech. We often compare chassis directly across a weight class, rather than looking at the specific design and utility of the mech as it is.

Now, if you look at the Lanner, other than the fact that it's a fast medium with decent-to-good hardpoint configs, it actually looks pretty good. You have to look at the better designs for the mech than the goofy chicken shown as the default pic on Sarna. It gets a good spread of hardpoints, nearly all of which at cockpit level or above, which is awesome. But yeah, thinking of this as an up-armored light, rather than a super-fast medium helps you understand its niche... same as thinking of the Linebacker as an up-armored medium rather than a super fast heavy.

[martian]

Metus regem, on 27 February 2016 - 01:46 PM, said:

The Black Lanner doesn't even have the same fixed Endo and FF slots, they change between Prime/A/B/C and D, it's like looking at a bunch of Battle mechs that all have the same name.

From what I see, all ES and FF slots are exactly where they should be. Could you tell me where those ES/FF slots are placed differently than they should be?

[ScarecrowES]

What I'd like to see is a sort of Clan "Response" pack... like... mechs that were designed and built leading up to the Battle of Tukayyid. So maybe the Fire Falcon, Black Lanner, Linebacker, and Turkina. All 3052/53 omnis.

[Metus regem]

martian, on 28 February 2016 - 12:05 AM, said:

From what I see, all ES and FF slots are exactly where they should be. Could you tell me where those ES/FF slots are placed differently than they should be?

The head, LT and RT ones shift around a lot in the files I have, it's a mess. Some have the ECM head slot, others have no unused space in the head, some have literally no free space in the LT....

[Windscape]

piranna or firemoth

coyotl

rifleman IIC

Marauder IIC

[Y E O N N E]

Firemoth or Locust IIC.

[martian]

Metus regem, on 28 February 2016 - 02:02 AM, said:

The head, LT and RT ones shift around a lot in the files I have, it's a mess. Some have the ECM head slot, others have no unused space in the head, some have literally no free space in the LT....

Have you checked the official CGL-published record sheets?

[pbiggz]

ScarecrowES, on 28 February 2016 - 12:22 AM, said:

What I'd like to see is a sort of Clan "Response" pack... like... mechs that were designed and built leading up to the Battle of Tukayyid. So maybe the Fire Falcon, Black Lanner, Linebacker, and Turkina. All 3052/53 omnis.

Every mech you just listed save the fire falcon for obvious reasons is a piece of hot garbage.

Black lanner has 11 tons of podspace, linebacker has 17 tons of podspace, turkina has 48 tons of podspace but worse hardpoints than the direwolf and is the same speed as the direwolf (XL285 locked on a 95 tonner) with hard locked jumpjets.

None of these mechs add anything good to the game. You want variety? Add good mechs so you see people actually using something other than timbergods and voidcrows and arctic cheetahs. Keep adding over/underengined omnis with abundances of useless locked equipment and nothing will change.

[TheArisen]

pbiggz, on 28 February 2016 - 09:42 AM, said:

Every mech you just listed save the fire falcon for obvious reasons is a piece of hot garbage.

Black lanner has 11 tons of podspace, linebacker has 17 tons of podspace, turkina has 48 tons of podspace but worse hardpoints than the direwolf and is the same speed as the direwolf (XL285 locked on a 95 tonner) with hard locked jumpjets.

None of these mechs add anything good to the game. You want variety? Add good mechs so you see people actually using something other than timbergods and voidcrows and arctic cheetahs. Keep adding over/underengined omnis with abundances of useless locked equipment and nothing will change.

Well the Turkina wouldn't be garbage, just extremely mediocre because despite it's faults it still has 48 tons to work with.

[FupDup]

TheArisen, on 28 February 2016 - 10:22 AM, said:

Well the Turkina wouldn't be garbage, just extremely mediocre because despite it's faults it still has 48 tons to work with.

42 tons for installing guns, actually.