819 replies to this topic

[Yozzman]

Sometimes it's better just to say nothing and not to russle them jimmies...

(I mean mr twitter ofc )

Edited by Yozzman, 14 June 2016 - 02:13 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

Sader325, on 14 June 2016 - 02:02 AM, said:

When I'm still killing you quickly/instantly, what are you going to complain about next?

Skill OP, plz nerf.

[Wintersdark]

Red Shrike, on 14 June 2016 - 02:04 AM, said:

With the power draw system you're pretty much throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

I dunno, one could make an argument that Battletech HAS a power draw system. Turns spread over 10 seconds, and you have to roll to hit with each separate weapon. It just doesn't need explicit rules because it's forced by the combat system.

It's frequently alluded to in the novels, as well, particularly with regards to Gauss.
While I understand that BT never intended such a system, it's one that fits into BT just fine. It's not a matter of "we've already disregarded tabletop so f**k it!" It's arguably more "How can we move from what MWO is closer to how TT plays?"

If players are forced to spread their fire "organically", that's more battletechish, not less.

[Rushin Roulette]

Deathlike, on 13 June 2016 - 08:12 PM, said:

Let's be clear about one thing...

What players want is totally different from what PGI implements.

That is all.

Lets be not only clear, but also honest about this.

What the community really want is something not even the community knows.

There are so many different ideas, wishes, hopes from the community, that not one single thing stands out as being the go to and end all solution for anything. Be it weapon convergence, heatscale, shooting mechanics, reticule changes depending on speed or whatever. Everything has been mentioned at least once with numbers, pictures and data to represent their arguments for or against proposed changes... and sometimes multiple times using different methods for changes.

Im sure that at some point someone from the community outlined this particular change and PGI followed through with it in the hopes to get rid of the ghostheat which is currently in game.

Blaming PGI for changes being against the community wishes is seriously unfair towards PGI, as the community doesnt even know what itself wishes for. Blaming them for pushing something out untested because it turns out to be seriously buggy is fine, as that is their job. Im not for or against the heatscale changes... Ill see how it ends up after implementation and how the meta changes.

One thing these anti meta complainers fail to understand is that the meta is never fixed. It changes every time something ingame changes. Can any of you remember how the dual Gauss K2 withthe XL engine was the bane of every game in the closed beta because that was the most dangerous mech at the time. Is anyone still scared of facing off against a dual Gauss K2 with the low hardpoints nowadays? yes it has a nice pinpoint alpha, but other mechs have a much higher alpha with far better weapon placements as well as Jumpjets and/or Clan XL engines which can even survive the destruction of one of the torsi. My point is.. meta players will always play meta and adjust accordingly to a different meta whenever the game changes, sometimes finding an even more destructive meta. Wishing for a changes quite often backfires in the face of players determined to find the best possible setup for the current status of the game.

[AssaultPig]

I think it's an alright idea in concept, but I'd rather them fix the big alpha problem with the balance levers they have (quirks, ghost heat) than introduce a whole new one that they'll probably spend six months ******* around with.

the basic idea is intuitive enough (more firepower = more heat); I'll be curious to see how they square it with range, velocity, RoF, etc. and with existing quirks.

[Sader325]

Bush Hopper, on 14 June 2016 - 02:07 AM, said:

Awww another ad hominem. Guys like you, who who love to act tough and spout their metal diarrhea, I would really like to meet in rl. I think it would be an utmost pleasant experience - at least for me.

The funny part is you think I'm arguing against the power draw system.

I don't care if we use this system, or the next. As stated clearly many times, I'm interested in what the next complaints will be.

It doesn't matter what the next system is, I'll still be good at it.

[Red Shrike]

Wintersdark, on 14 June 2016 - 02:17 AM, said:

I dunno, one could make an argument that Battletech HAS a power draw system. Turns spread over 10 seconds, and you have to roll to hit with each separate weapon. It just doesn't need explicit rules because it's forced by the combat system.

The way I understand it, whenever someone fires a laser, the reactor temporarily increases its energy output for the duration of the laser, producing the heat you see on the heat scale.

Wintersdark, on 14 June 2016 - 02:17 AM, said:

While I understand that BT never intended such a system, it's one that fits into BT just fine. It's not a matter of "we've already disregarded tabletop so f**k it!" It's arguably more "How can we move from what MWO is closer to how TT plays?"

If players are forced to spread their fire "organically", that's more battletechish, not less.

The thing is, you're achieving the same result but with different means. It's like 2+2 and 2x2, both give 4 but by different means. So while the result might be closer to TT, the means are not, and I do not feel that the end justifies the means when there are other avenues to explore.

[Carl Vickers]

I for one welcome our new dakka overlords, Black Widow with 4 ac5's becomes p2w hero. Kodiak 3 becomes king of the battlefield ect ect.

P.s, Lets wait and see what PGI can do before we DOA them.

[Johnny Z]

Sader325, on 14 June 2016 - 02:21 AM, said:

The funny part is you think I'm arguing against the power draw system.

I don't care if we use this system, or the next. As stated clearly many times, I'm interested in what the next complaints will be.

It doesn't matter what the next system is, I'll still be good at it.

I'm glad you feel that way because I am almost 100% certain the next system will be seriously cheat unfriendly. Hard core.

So any cheats out there better start panicking and trolling full time to stop this.

For anyone who isn't a cheat, that means TTK will go way up. They hate that. A lot.

Edited by Johnny Z, 14 June 2016 - 02:41 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Sader325, on 14 June 2016 - 02:21 AM, said:

The funny part is you think I'm arguing against the power draw system.

I don't care if we use this system, or the next. As stated clearly many times, I'm interested in what the next complaints will be.

It doesn't matter what the next system is, I'll still be good at it.

I don't think he thinks that at all.

He's just irritated by your gross generalisation that everyone who doesn't like the current system doesn't like it because they're bad.

There are lots of reasons not to like the current system, the majority of which have nothing to do with ones own skill or lack thereof.

[PhoenixFire55]

Clarke's PhoenixFire55's third law:
Any sufficiently advanced technology skill is indistinguishable from magic cheats.

[Wintersdark]

AssaultPig, on 14 June 2016 - 02:19 AM, said:

I think it's an alright idea in concept, but I'd rather them fix the big alpha problem with the balance levers they have (quirks, ghost heat) than introduce a whole new one that they'll probably spend six months ******* around with.

the basic idea is intuitive enough (more firepower = more heat); I'll be curious to see how they square it with range, velocity, RoF, etc. and with existing quirks.

Well, they can't do it with Ghost Heat. That's kind of the point, in order to make ghost heat work would require making it increasingly more complex and difficult for new players to understand. Better, at this point, to start over.

Changing quirks around won't help, either, and is worse in pretty much every way than redesigning ghost heat. Simply because it'd mean requiring every mech in the game, and as you well know that never really ends very well. Better to rebuild Ghost Heat to fix the mistakes from GH 1.0

[Johnny Z]

PhoenixFire55, on 14 June 2016 - 02:44 AM, said:

Clarke's PhoenixFire55's third law:
Any sufficiently advanced technology skill is indistinguishable from magic cheats.

Anyone can tell if someone is cheating easily. Which is why cheats hate long TTK because its even easier to detect.

Cheats like speed and firepower and couldn't care less about armor because they can end a fight so quick with enough speed and firepower. They know the location of every enemy and can approach undetected or when the enemy is turned.

Your only getting shot in the back in FPS? Your fighting a cheat.

Rule one if a player thinks someone is cheating, they probly are. Use the complaint button and proper judgement of course. If the person isn't cheating they got nothing to fear.

Last of all cheats operate in gangs and use trolling and greifing to remain in the game. They know they are easy to detect and try make anyone and everyone they face quit to avoid being reported. They also try make others culpable. If for some odd reason they are stupid enough to think they are fooling anyone, well then that's a whole new lvl of idiocy beyond being stupid/desperate enough to cheat.

Edited by Johnny Z, 14 June 2016 - 02:54 AM.

[Clownwarlord]

I am looking forward to this new system. Everyone will have to adapt to a new set of rules and I like changes like this because it keeps the game fresh. Unlike quirks which turns everything stale because the majority then just drop in the cheese quirked mech and goes from there.

[AnTi90d]

I wish they'd just, at least, attempted to use the existing TT heatscale penalties.

The #1 thing I hear people ***** about, on the subject of meta-alphawarriors, is that they corner peek, alpha and then pull back. TT heatscale gives massive movement penalties to hot mechs, so they'd corner peek, alpha and then be so hot they'd creep back so slowly they'd get shot multiple times.

The whole reason people are even able to alpha and keep moving is because PGI never considered implementing TT heat penalties.. and the heat cap is way too high.. and heatsinks shouldn't raise the cap.

I didn't like ghost heat; I think it's a terrible idea and I think power draw will be another terrible idea. I just want to play a FPS Battletech game like MW4 but with better graphics. I feel this hairbrained invention takes us further away from Battletech for no reason other than PGI's assumed hatred for Battletech rules and their combination of pride and arrogance that they assume they have all the answers and don't need any community input.

[Red Shrike]

AnTi90d, on 14 June 2016 - 02:52 AM, said:

I wish they'd just, at least, attempted to use the existing TT heatscale penalties.

The #1 thing I hear people ***** about, on the subject of meta-alphawarriors, is that they corner peek, alpha and then pull back. TT heatscale gives massive movement penalties to hot mechs, so they'd corner peek, alpha and then be so hot they'd creep back so slowly they'd get shot multiple times.

The whole reason people are even able to alpha and keep moving is because PGI never considered implementing TT heat penalties.. and the heat cap is way too high.. and heatsinks shouldn't raise the cap.

I didn't like ghost heat; I think it's a terrible idea and I think power draw will be another terrible idea. I just want to play a FPS Battletech game like MW4 but with better graphics. I feel this hairbrained invention takes us further away from Battletech for no reason other than PGI's assumed hatred for Battletech rules and their combination of pride and arrogance that they assume they have all the answers and don't need any community input.

+1

[PhoenixFire55]

Johnny Z, on 14 June 2016 - 02:48 AM, said:

Anyone can tell if someone is cheating easily. Which is why cheats hate long TTK because its even easier to detect.

Rule one if a player thinks someone is cheating, they probly are. Use the complaint button and proper judgement of course. If the person isn't cheating they got nothing to fear.

I'm playing MWO for nearly 4 years now. I've seen someone obviously using cheats exactly one time. You gotta be really paranoid and then some to even begin thinking that cheating is a factor in this game. Plus, your argument is absurd to begin with. Aimbot doesn't care about TTK, aimbot takes your head out with one dual gauss shot.

[Yellonet]

Bush Hopper, on 14 June 2016 - 01:02 AM, said:

Yup, Warhammer Online was a prime example how your theory proved true. I mean the whole community told them that it is insane that AoE damage hits harder than single target damage...and the devs more or less said "L2P" and "You have no idea".

Do some search and look how well WHO does nowadays

One example neither proves nor disproves my "theory" (as you put it) that a game developer should not listen too much on its community.

[Johnny Z]

PhoenixFire55, on 14 June 2016 - 02:54 AM, said:

I'm playing MWO for nearly 4 years now. I've seen someone obviously using cheats exactly one time. You gotta be really paranoid and then some to even begin thinking that cheating is a factor in this game. Plus, your argument is absurd to begin with. Aimbot doesn't care about TTK, aimbot takes your head out with one dual gauss shot.

That's funny because I have seen it quite a few times. Invulnerablity cheat more than any other.

I get a kick out of players telling everyone they quit when instead they got banned. Or that they got banned for other reasons than cheating

The funniest thing ever? This game hasn't even started to get good yet. To bad they will be on noob accounts when it does.

About bans I am sure they are banning the rage hackers. But I expect an impessive ban wave of the closet hackers prior to some excellent updates.

*spoiler* If it were me I would drop so much new content at once the trolls wouldn't know what to complain about first.

Edited by Johnny Z, 14 June 2016 - 03:02 AM.

[DaRkInLiGhT]

I'm all for experimentation, given that pgi considered a system like this, it could be a massive game changer, maybe even for the better. the problem though is proper implementation.

if done right, I would be on board with this at the drop of a hat, all about weapons diversity.