215 replies to this topic

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Peter2k, on 04 December 2016 - 01:24 PM, said:

Russ acknowledged that's it's a good amount to grind for

He did? Could you provide a quote?

[Appogee]

BLOOD WOLF, on 04 December 2016 - 01:12 PM, said:

I think the important factor is that you don't need to level variants you never use.

Won't need to buy them, in the first place.

Let's see what that does to their cashflow.

[Peter2k]

Prof RJ Gumby, on 04 December 2016 - 01:30 PM, said:

He did? Could you provide a quote?

well a timestamp and a twitch stream

https://www.twitch.t...mes/v/105055090

at
09:03:30

[Peter2k]

Appogee, on 04 December 2016 - 01:35 PM, said:

Won't need to buy them, in the first place.

Let's see what that does to their cashflow.

ha that's difficult

for people who primarily use C-Bills to buy mechs its a boon

no idea if they change the way we buy mechs in the next year

Bud Crue, on 04 December 2016 - 01:18 PM, said:

I don't think a test...at least in the normal pts environment that we all know and love...will get to the points being raised above.

If the testing environment gives each player some set number of XP to work with, then the test is merely to see how that value of XP "balances" across different chassis as applied by player choice (is a certain skills path OP, vs others; is a certain skills path chosen more often over others, etc.). Such a test will not address inherent bad mech vs good mech imbalances (a Cataphract has a ton of quirks to make it playable relative to other mechs, if a player applies the same number of XP to it in the skils tree test as a TimberWolf with the same amount of XP expended, the Timberwolf is going to dominate it. (I.E. the Cataphract had those quirks for a reason)). Nor will a PTS do anything to address the huge disparity of values between the old (current system) and the new.

well people especially have the cost of mastering at mind as it seems
not the balance issues that can easily crop up
so seeing and experiencing the cost of unlocking should work



erm

we got ED pushed back, maybe gone for good

not sure the PTS can be seen as useless

Edited by Peter2k, 04 December 2016 - 01:43 PM.

[Lily from animove]

I bet i can preduct the most meta skillings already.

[Wecx]

Lily from animove, on 04 December 2016 - 01:43 PM, said:

I bet i can preduct the most meta skillings already.

Cooldown, Heat Efficiency.

[Y E O N N E]

Wecx, on 04 December 2016 - 01:46 PM, said:

Cooldown, Heat Efficiency.

Speed Tweak.

[FupDup]

Yeonne Greene, on 04 December 2016 - 01:46 PM, said:

Speed Tweak.

Seismic Wallhack and Radar Derp, too.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Peter2k, on 04 December 2016 - 01:36 PM, said:

well a timestamp and a twitch stream

https://www.twitch.t...mes/v/105055090

at
09:03:30

Ah, I thought Russ confirmed that current xp needed to master a mech is ok. He didn't ;_;

[Y E O N N E]

FupDup, on 04 December 2016 - 01:48 PM, said:

Seismic Wallhack and Radar Derp, too.

Dramatically less universally necessary, but I suspect a lot will spring for it. The thing is, there is a cost in incidental skills you have to pick up along the way, so the magnitude of the wallhack and derp we see on the field might be lessened compared to now.

[MauttyKoray]

AnTi90d, on 03 December 2016 - 09:23 PM, said:

So.. now it will take..

3.5 MILLION experience points

..to master each mech.

..the grind is real..

This isn't the same skill tree as before. Look at the bonuses you can now gain. God forbid you spend time piloting a single chassis for longer than it took to previously master it for your e-peen purposes.

This is a specialization tree that I think will mimic the quirks of mechs and weapon/equipment brands from the universe.

[AnTi90d]

MauttyKoray, on 04 December 2016 - 02:31 PM, said:

This isn't the same skill tree as before. Look at the bonuses you can now gain. God forbid you spend time piloting a single chassis for longer than it took to previously master it for your e-peen purposes.

This is a specialization tree that I think will mimic the quirks of mechs and weapon/equipment brands from the universe.

Yeah, I didn't see that it was capped at 75 skills.

Still, 750,000 XP is an absurd amount of XP to drop into one variant of one chassis.. This will certainly hurt mechbay sales.. and probably future mech sales. Who wants new toys when they aren't finished with even four of their dozens of toys?

Currently it's 60k XP to master a mech. (In estimating ~2500xp per hour of playing..) Playing 2 hours a day takes ~12 days to master. Playing 4 hours a day takes ~6 days to master. Under the new system: playing 2 hours a day takes ~150 days to master and playing 4 hours a day takes ~75 days to master.

Mech pack sales are going to directly be hurt by this. 75-100 days on one chassis is an obscene amount of time, especially given that players have 50-100+ mechs that are going to need to be re-leveled and PGI wants to sell us 3-6 mechs a month.

..not to mention the Clan mechs that are performing well, without quirks, will now be able to choose their own quirks and utterly dominate everything around them. What's the solution to that?.. give the IS more skill slots per mech?.. That will only exponentially increase the grind for those mechs. Even more people will go clanner if 1) clan mechs overperform and 2) it takes dramatically longer to master an IS mech over a clan one.

Even if they gave the IS double the skill points of the Clan mechs, it still wouldn't equal to the same performance on the battlefield. Kodiak 3s with ballistic range / velocity quirks.. on top of armor / structure quirks?.. Great idea, PGI.

RIP: Clan VS IS semi-balance.

I really like the idea of more customization in the skill trees, but the amount of grinding.. the Clan vs IS imbalance this will create.. the fact that, with Jump Jet height quirks, this thing brings back the poptart Gauss/PPC meta.. complete with velocity buffs for their Gauss/PPC..

I'm really god damn happy that I've downloaded ~20 new games to play just in case PGI threw the game into the crapper, as it seems they were on track to do since the minimap update / rescale / dequirkening / roundtable..

[testhero]

Damn I just took a quick look and thought ok so it is a matrix rather than a branching tree this might just work. but if it just looks like a matrix it will have the same overspecialization flaws of all the other RPG games out there where the branching skill tree leads to a few optimal builds.
I don't want my Warhammer to be a Tank brawler build or a scout sniper build. A vindicator elf mage build doesn't rock my world to be honest.
The scaling of how many points to master a mech can be tweaked but a branching skill path may be harder to adjust

[Garfuncle]

IS quirk trees must be much, much stronger than Clan quirk trees or we will see nothing but Clan mechs with the best hardpoint locations dominate the game for eternity.

[Gaden Phoenix]

My problem is what happens to all my hard work? If they going to make me grind hours upon hours again to level up my 100+ mechs. I just will not be able to take it, and will most probably just level a few aka no more mech packs for me thanks.

I think PGI really has to be careful on how much XP is required. If years of work goes out the window for the vets, many will have even more negative feelings, which might lead to closed wallets or leaving.

Also, new players? Will they be unfairly hampered. This is first and foremost a competitive Death Match game. Too much variants based on grind (not skill) and you have problems.

Edited by Gaden Phoenix, 04 December 2016 - 03:36 PM.

[oldradagast]

Yeonne Greene, on 03 December 2016 - 10:03 PM, said:

It's potentially even worse than that.

IS needs extra durability/mobility because XL needs to be protected. They need faster firing lasers and longer range just to cover the deficit from total number of weapons and gap between standard and ER...

But now, at least from what these screenshots show, the Clans get access to these same buffs in the same magnitude.

GG.

Also, I like how each SP costs so much that even the 700,000+ XP I have on my Locusts and Blackjacks results in them being overall weaker than they are now after I spend it all on upgrades. Frickin' neato.

Yeah, that's basically the deal breaker for me. The insane grind to accomplish anything combined with PGI's love of balancing things with a dartboard means we've reached a point where it is literally not worth it to even try to level mechs anymore. You'll never get there, and even if you, "there" will change into something else by then. Why bother?

As infuriating as it is that things keep changing in this game, at least all my mechs are fully leveled right now, so no matter what idiocy gets pushed live, my mechs are "the best they can be" despite the latest lunacy. Now, with this dopey new system plus PGI's love of randomly changing large chunks of the game for no reason, I'm stuck playing "chase the meta" with my skills now, which is just infuriating. Adding insult to the injury is that it looks like it'll take an insane amount of XP to accomplish much of anything with this new skill tree.

It's just more obvious attempts to squeeze the players for money via premium time.

[oldradagast]

Dino Might, on 04 December 2016 - 12:27 PM, said:

This is going to suck because all the skills are direct upgrades and not sidegrades. This one is a total bust for me...
More noob stomping incoming.

Exactly. They completely failed to listen to the players past the point of "the skill tree needs work." We didn't want an even worse grind, or even a total scrapping of the current system. Just give people actual choices with advantages and drawbacks so somebody can customize a mech their own way - not just make it straight out better to noob-stomp and kill whatever new players this game still has.

But, no... we can't have nice things since PGI decides the best solution is an absurd grind per mech with the "skill" tree just being like modules in the current system - straight upgrades to the mech's performance. So, we have the same thing with this new system, but it takes even longer to get anywhere. All the grind you hate, but now with more time to hate it!

Anyone want to buy some premium time with a mech pack?

[xXBagheeraXx]

So wait, Basically I can build my own quirks?????




I like the basic idea of this, and the level of customization it now allows since you can spec to exactly what that mech is packing, The amount of XP required tho is a bit much......

Edited by xXBagheeraXx, 04 December 2016 - 03:44 PM.

[Clownwarlord]

Well ... um my CBill issue will be solved for life now ... I just need to start re mastering EVERYTHING. Time to get out my Atlas collection.

[Bulletsponge0]

AnTi90d, on 03 December 2016 - 09:23 PM, said:

So.. now it will take..

3.5 MILLION experience points

..to master each mech.

..the grind is real..

thats not true from what I see...

I mean, unless you plan on fully unlocking skill for weapons that you never plan on putting on a mech....