258 replies to this topic

[Starbomber109]

S0ulReapr, on 28 January 2017 - 03:03 PM, said:

Maybe your unit is just not the right unit for a Mechwarrior who specializes in LRMs. It may be that your unit is not flexible enough to develop tactics and strategies that would make the use of LRMs an asset instead of a liability. This is not a dig against your unit, you probably do very well with an all direct-fire team, but people just need to realize that the meta is the way it is because players have made it that way.

Who are you ARC7?

I digress, guided weapons in this game aren't completely useless, but their uses are limited. And you highlighted one of the reasons why LRMs aren't used too often. They require supporting units to put on the most amount of damage. In a card game, we would call this a 'combo', but if you don't have all the combo pieces in your hand at the same time, you can't play the combo. If those cards are also 'dead' (ie: can't be played) without their supporting pieces those cards are pretty bad. LRMs are like one of those cards. You can't use it if your opponent has ECM on the field, unless you happen to have Narc Beacon or Tag Laser. If you play Narc Beacon onto his ECM you'll counter it, but if you hit anything not generating ECM with your narc the ECM counters the narc. You also need a whole 2nd mech to actually put the narc out. This is turning into like a 4 card combo already, are you starting to see why more people don't use LRMs? The amount of work required to do....only decent damage at long range (usually it goes into people's legs/arms anyway, not ideal most of the time) makes it really hard to justify LRMs in a deck.

Edited by Starbomber109, 28 January 2017 - 05:29 PM.

[Edward Hazen]

Starbomber109, on 28 January 2017 - 05:29 PM, said:

Who are you ARC7?

No, my unit is GD3B, we are still too small of a unit for FW and we refuse to pug it and we are working on our drop decks at the moment. The unit co-founder loves his Archer and will always play LRMS, so I personally have gotten accustomed to hugging targets to keep them locked. It will be interesting to see how this dynamic works out as our unit grows.

And yes, we have been lurmed to death by ARC7 in group queue before

Edited by S0ulReapr, 28 January 2017 - 11:10 PM.

[nehebkau]

Clan's can bring LRMs because they don't have as much of a concern about weight and hardpoints that IS does. When you are playing IS you MUST make your damage as effective as possible and that means PINPOINT or nearly pinpoint. That means lasers,ppc, gauss, autocannons (not lbx) and SRMs with artemis. That excludes S-SRMS and LRMs.

There really is no nice way to say it so, LRMs are a good way to handicap your mech and your team

[Edward Hazen]

nehebkau, on 29 January 2017 - 07:38 PM, said:

Clan's can bring LRMs because they don't have as much of a concern about weight and hardpoints that IS does. When you are playing IS you MUST make your damage as effective as possible and that means PINPOINT or nearly pinpoint. That means lasers,ppc, gauss, autocannons (not lbx) and SRMs with artemis. That excludes S-SRMS and LRMs.

There really is no nice way to say it so, LRMs are a good way to handicap your mech and your team

Depends on the Clan mech, you need to take allot more Heatsinks to be effective in a Clan mech, so you really don't have as much space as you should. Also, clan weapons generate far more heat and have stupid ghost heat limits, so you can rarely alpha-strike in a clan mech. Yes, it also depends on your team and many teams just take the easy route and try to emulate the "pro" teams.

[Carl Vickers]

S0ulReapr, on 29 January 2017 - 09:20 PM, said:

Also, clan weapons generate far more heat and have stupid ghost heat limits, so you can rarely alpha-strike in a clan mech.

Lol at the bolded part, please learn the mechs and how they get played before making comments.

[Edward Hazen]

Carl Vickers, on 29 January 2017 - 09:31 PM, said:

Lol at the bolded part, please learn the mechs and how they get played before making comments.

I have played more Mechs than you know. Seriously all the whining and circle-jerking just gets us a mess of badly optimized quirks and gets good Mechs turned into useless Mechs.

[Carl Vickers]

Playing mechs and knowing how to play mechs, specially in FW are 2 totally different things.

[DavidStarr]

My dropdeck consists of 3 EBJs and a SHC, and one of the EBJs is a lurmer (UAC/10 + 4xLRM10 + TAG, no Artemis). I usually drop it second or third, and consistently do well with it, especially in quickplay modes (but often in Invasion, too). I don't hide more than I must, I try to put that TAG and UAC/10 to work. And I don't feel I'm handicapping my team with this build.

Sometimes I do regret I can't drop a high alpha direct fire brawler instead, but most of the time I do work with those LRMs.
But then again, I usually do 1000-1200 damage and rarely over 1400, regardless of what my drop deck is (the number is about the same for IS and clans, too).

[justcallme A S H]

S0ulReapr, on 29 January 2017 - 10:39 PM, said:

I have played more Mechs than you know. Seriously all the whining and circle-jerking just gets us a mess of badly optimized quirks and gets good Mechs turned into useless Mechs.

What?

I can 68pt alpha strike in my EBJ, twice... Before overheating.

Most players are dead at this point.

Tell me again how clan suffers in heat department when it's made up in outright dmg?

Show you're tier plz. I bet it's T4.

[justcallme A S H]

DavidStarr, on 30 January 2017 - 12:29 AM, said:

My dropdeck consists of 3 EBJs and a SHC, and one of the EBJs is a lurmer (UAC/10 + 4xLRM10 + TAG, no Artemis). I usually drop it second or third, and consistently do well with it, especially in quickplay modes (but often in Invasion, too). I don't hide more than I must, I try to put that TAG and UAC/10 to work. And I don't feel I'm handicapping my team with this build.

Sometimes I do regret I can't drop a high alpha direct fire brawler instead, but most of the time I do work with those LRMs.
But then again, I usually do 1000-1200 damage and rarely over 1400, regardless of what my drop deck is (the number is about the same for IS and clans, too).

I rarely see LRM boaters, crack 1000dmg across 4 mechs. Each match the past 4hrs tonight. Not one cracked 1k.

If you're only doing 1000-1200dmg, that is only 250dmg a mech. That is pretty low. 250 is basically a base-line for adequate.

If you ran a 2LPL/5ML EBJ - 60pts or whatever each time - you only need to fire 4 times to be doing more damage in a 60sec period than your EBJ LRM boat does in what, 3-4mins? Given the majority of the missiles are not hitting targets.

Give it a shot, you'll see yourself climb to 1600dmg+ easily. UAC's right now are just crap with the jam chance/duration... Not good for FP at all IMO.

[Mr D One]

justcallme A S H, on 30 January 2017 - 05:12 AM, said:

Show you're tier plz. I bet it's T4.

Caution, it may be T4 account but a T1 player behind as an Alt.

[MovinTarget]

Besides tier means nothing.

There are a lot of mediocre, even bad players that have coasted enough wins over time make T1.

Heck I have been T1 for a while, yet I sport a 1.03 KDR... I could make all sorts of excuses like I only QP to level mechs, but the fact is i have almost an even kdr after 14.4k matches.

People don't exactly quake in their boots when they see me...

[Edward Hazen]

justcallme A S H, on 30 January 2017 - 05:12 AM, said:

What?

I can 68pt alpha strike in my EBJ, twice... Before overheating.

Most players are dead at this point.

Tell me again how clan suffers in heat department when it's made up in outright dmg?

Show you're tier plz. I bet it's T4.

Yes, it is because I play mostly solo queue and my tier is at the mercy of my team mates. FYI, I see plenty of players from big name units who end up dropping in the "potato" tier and can't play worth a damn without the rest of their unit, or their drop commander telling them where to shoot.

[Novakaine]

Sock Puppet says Snazzy doesn't have the slightest clue.
Trust your socks.

[Novakaine]

justcallme A S H, on 30 January 2017 - 05:16 AM, said:

I rarely see LRM boaters, crack 1000dmg across 4 mechs. Each match the past 4hrs tonight. Not one cracked 1k.

If you're only doing 1000-1200dmg, that is only 250dmg a mech. That is pretty low. 250 is basically a base-line for adequate.

If you ran a 2LPL/5ML EBJ - 60pts or whatever each time - you only need to fire 4 times to be doing more damage in a 60sec period than your EBJ LRM boat does in what, 3-4mins? Given the majority of the missiles are not hitting targets.

Give it a shot, you'll see yourself climb to 1600dmg+ easily. UAC's right now are just crap with the jam chance/duration... Not good for FP at all IMO.

Pffft, but here ya go.
Of course this is with inferior IS mechs.
Oh and no meta needed.

Edited by Novakaine, 30 January 2017 - 08:33 AM.

[MovinTarget]

<sigh> This thread so pointless... no one can offer a complete distillation of their body of work to prove one point or another, only snapshots. There are so many variables to take into account. If the team effectively uses the right combination of LRMS and force multipliers, it can be pretty devastating *in the right circumstances*

Once you take the team away though... are the scores consistently comparable?

I'm not going to tell anyone what to bring and what not to bring, my only goal is to point out that under typical situations, dropping solo with LRM-dependent builds will be less effective than direct fire where you require less teamwork (no guarantee there will be any).

If you can solo drop FP and consistently get scores like that, more power to you, I doubt those complaining about lurmers are talking to you. They are talking to the ones that do a fraction of that... and ironically I doubt these people would even ever see this thread...

[Edward Hazen]

Yeah, I am done wasting my time in this thread. I know that to some players, reaching tier 1 in MWO is the greatest achievement in their lifetimes and I would not want to continue to try and diminish that, so I will keep playing for fun in potatoland and go down with the MWO ship.

[Carl Vickers]

Novakaine, on 30 January 2017 - 08:31 AM, said:

Pffft, but here ya go.
Of course this is with inferior IS mechs.
Oh and no meta needed.

It would be more useful to see who you were playing against, considering you only used 2 mechs and your team got the win, Im thinking you were up against potato's, so it looks like you were just in a spud on spud action.

Add to that, 1500 damage and only 3 kmdd's, not very effective fire. GG

[Laser Kiwi]

ok so i'm a total spud tier 5 nobody and i don't mind losing all that much as long as i learn, what annoys me is that i invested in trebuchet which sort of lend themselves to lrm fire and have low hanging arms which make it difficult for cresting fire. The question is that surely the odd 50 ton with acouple of lrmswont bust the team up completely will it, and in a way aren't there always situations where you have to carry weaker players, it's kind of realistic as in all competitive sports some players will carry others, look at the NFL or NHL or whatever.
I get that lrms aren't the best there is also the issue that in order to progress in faction rank the pugs like me HAVE to play some FW just so we can earn the little acheivemnets and ranks and stuff like that, QP will be pretty tiring for most after a while and there isn't enough players to be exclusive at the top, seems to me more problems than answers.

Still i'll concentrate on direct fire and try to improve my ratios where i can, advice is good.

[Carl Vickers]

Astrokazy, on 30 January 2017 - 04:33 PM, said:

ok so i'm a total spud tier 5 nobody and i don't mind losing all that much as long as i learn, what annoys me is that i invested in trebuchet which sort of lend themselves to lrm fire and have low hanging arms which make it difficult for cresting fire. The question is that surely the odd 50 ton with acouple of lrmswont bust the team up completely will it, and in a way aren't there always situations where you have to carry weaker players, it's kind of realistic as in all competitive sports some players will carry others, look at the NFL or NHL or whatever.
I get that lrms aren't the best there is also the issue that in order to progress in faction rank the pugs like me HAVE to play some FW just so we can earn the little acheivemnets and ranks and stuff like that, QP will be pretty tiring for most after a while and there isn't enough players to be exclusive at the top, seems to me more problems than answers.

Still i'll concentrate on direct fire and try to improve my ratios where i can, advice is good.

Great attitude, keep at it and you will get better, just takes some time.