188 replies to this topic

[Dee Eight]

Ya know...unless you want PGI to abandon the F2P system and go to a subscription service to pay for the servers, staff, and bandwidth... this is what you're left with as the alternative. And lest you not forget, if they shutdown everything all your "virtual" mechs in your garage cease to exist and you're left with nothing but memories and bank statements/credit card bills to remind you of what was spent on the game. And if you're NOT spending money on the game, then you don't actually get a vote as to what PGI wants to sell to those who are spending money, and keeping the ship afloat.

Edited by Dee Eight, 04 April 2017 - 07:47 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

ProfPyro, on 04 April 2017 - 07:42 PM, said:

Great Caesar's ghost you're getting the LFE to bridge the durability gap. You're also getting a crapton of interesting new stuff while clans will get ridiculously hot lasers and few lighter utility tools. ATMs are the only thing that clans get that look interesting/useful.

Heavy Lasers and ATMs.

Everything the IS is getting is bridge material except MRMs, so I guess it's even?

Dee Eight, on 04 April 2017 - 07:44 PM, said:

Ya know...unless you want PGI to abandon the F2P system and go to a subscription service to pay for the servers, staff, and bandwidth... this is what you're left with as the alternative.

I'm down with that.

[Mcgral18]

Yeonne Greene, on 04 April 2017 - 07:34 PM, said:

You would only have 5 tons of ammo if running an XL280.

That's pretty much exactly where the Muromets sits as well
But LFE280 (Gyr speeds)
XL would need to drop LFF, and get 9 tons (or XL300 for 7.5 tons)

ProfPyro, on 04 April 2017 - 07:42 PM, said:

Great Caesar's ghost you're getting the LFE to bridge the durability gap. You're also getting a crapton of interesting new stuff while clans will get ridiculously hot lasers and few lighter utility tools. ATMs are the only thing that clans get that look interesting/useful.

LFE is still outright inferior


It had better get no penalties on ST loss (and STD engine buffed)
Because if it has the same penalties as the cXL, PGI will (yet again) be the laughing stock of balance

Edited by Mcgral18, 04 April 2017 - 07:49 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Mcgral18, on 04 April 2017 - 07:49 PM, said:

That's pretty much exactly where the Muromets sits as well
But LFE280 (Gyr speeds)
XL would need to drop LFF, and get 9 tons (or XL300 for 7.5 tons)

If the Murdermets had better geo and hardpoint placements, that might actually be worth it even with the squishy XL pending how they implement RACs.

[Jackal Noble]

FupDup, on 04 April 2017 - 07:19 PM, said:

Pretty much every F2P game ever makes a lot of money off of purely cosmetic skins for units, champs, heroes, etc. Even a buy-to-play game like Overwatch makes a fuckton of money on microtransactions for skins that don't affect combat stats.

First of all, Overwatch is about 300 times larger than MWO, so it is feasible for that size of a game to subside on that type of model...MWO not so much. Look, I don't really care for the pay model (or P2W call out in this case) anymore than you do, but it is the reality of this game; has been and will continue to be due in part to how the pay model started. Save the minor alterations in packs and or single chassis, there's not going to be a whole lot of change and that's just how it is. These types of campaigns that I see on here, whatever they are whining about, tend to never actually accomplish a whole lot except sully the general mood of the player base on here.

FupDup, on 04 April 2017 - 07:19 PM, said:

You must have missed the Dragon Slayer (!!!), Ember, and post-quirk Oxide and Huggin.

Also, IS heroes are completely different because they can't mix hardpoints across variants. They have to accept both the strengths AND weaknesses of their innate hardpoint setup. Omnimechs can choose to use only the strong hero pods and then fill in the gaps with strong C-Bill pods to make an overall stronger mech than somebody who uses C-Bill pods alone.

Ya and they got nerf-batted, so what, they were also absurdly quirked. That also happened after the fact that they were out and actually in the game... not before, so ya.

Again, IS tech update will help to level this out some what...and these uber pods will be tied directly to the set of 8 most certainly. I know, the HBR and EBJ don't have quirks... some of the only mechs in game that are unquirked... which both says something about the base chassis' themselves but also is somewhat odd. I'm betting the heroes will come with something, not something you guys want to hear, I'm sorry. The Hellbringer - already a solid chassis, even without that one extra energy point - whoa better watch out. The EBJ - other than dual gauss in each ST(with a combined 10 HP!!) is still on a mech with very easy to isolate STs, is softer (no structure bonus, or weapon bonus) with no shield arms to speak of. Other than that, sure now you can run quad UAC2s, whoopee...so can the hunchback but better.

These heroes are not going to be as OP, as many believe as there are already so many mechs in game, as is. We are kind of at a saturation point. Also, this was kind of inevitable considering the vary nature of omnipods and what is considered content in this game.

I don't entirely disagree with many of the points made about these heroes being P2W or power creep or what have you.. just that it's not as crazy as some lead to believe.

Edited by JackalBeast, 04 April 2017 - 07:57 PM.

[Carl Vickers]

Yeonne Greene, on 04 April 2017 - 07:41 PM, said:

True, though I would point out that the game has changed a little bit. The NTG runs even slower than that, for starters, and dakka is usually used in relatively static roles to begin with. Since it has range and sustain, it isn't necessary for it to move as much.

Basically, if it can keep pace with the KDK or NTG, it's on the table. What takes it off the table are other factors like isXL, geo, hardpoint placement, etc.

True but the Gyr has jump jets to make up for lack of speed, it can jump over things where mechs that do not have JJ's have to walk around.

[Y E O N N E]

Carl Vickers, on 04 April 2017 - 07:55 PM, said:

True but the Gyr has jump jets to make up for lack of speed, it can jump over things where mechs that do not have JJ's have to walk around.

KDK has no jets.

What was the comp-grade Warhammer running? I've seen it run everything from a 270 to a 300 when doing the dakka/PPC thing.

[Carl Vickers]

Yeonne Greene, on 04 April 2017 - 07:57 PM, said:

KDK has no jets.

What was the comp-grade Warhammer running? I've seen it run everything from a 270 to a 300 when doing the dakka/PPC thing.

Touche, tbh I judge most things from a FP perspective as thats my preferred match mode where mobility becomes king. Specially on those FP maps. If you cant re-position quickly enough you get pwned.

[Carl Vickers]

ProfPyro, on 04 April 2017 - 07:42 PM, said:

Great Caesar's ghost you're getting the LFE to bridge the durability gap. You're also getting a crapton of interesting new stuff while clans will get ridiculously hot lasers and few lighter utility tools. ATMs are the only thing that clans get that look interesting/useful.

Doesnt come as close as the one eyed clanners think, only 25% weight saving on LFE vs 50% on clan XL. Still a very large net advantage to Clanners which is what needs to be eliminated.

[Mcgral18]

Yeonne Greene, on 04 April 2017 - 07:54 PM, said:

If the Murdermets had better geo and hardpoint placements, that might actually be worth it even with the squishy XL pending how they implement RACs.

You can always swap a RAC for a HPPC
Sword and board it with a LFE, and 5 tons should be adequate for 2 guns.
Or 2 LPPCs with more ammo (or bigger engine)


But then you can take a different Heavy.

[Y E O N N E]

Carl Vickers, on 04 April 2017 - 08:04 PM, said:

Touche, tbh I judge most things from a FP perspective as thats my preferred match mode where mobility becomes king. Specially on those FP maps. If you cant re-position quickly enough you get pwned.

Been a long time since I've done any FP (not that I've dropped at all recently), is dakka even prominent there? I would expect the focus to be on PPCs and lasers, which are much easier to make agile, even dependent upon that agility.

[Dee Eight]

The only way to eliminate that advantage is to jump the timeline forwards even further to the post dark age period, and allow unrestricted tech mixing with the only difference between clan tech costs more. Wanna install a clan XL into your Atlas...great...but it costs 50% more than an IS XL engine...

[Y E O N N E]

Mcgral18, on 04 April 2017 - 08:10 PM, said:

You can always swap a RAC for a HPPC
Sword and board it with a LFE, and 5 tons should be adequate for 2 guns.
Or 2 LPPCs with more ammo (or bigger engine)


But then you can take a different Heavy.

RAC spin-up time also makes it hard to really use with a PPC. I think what makes combos like UAC/5 + PPC work so well is that you can either poke for 30 FLD or you can go full ham on a push. The RAC is basically pigeonholed into a push role which, at that point, I might as well take ERLL instead because face-time and superior heat-to-damage.

[MauttyKoray]

Mcgral18, on 04 April 2017 - 04:07 PM, said:

Hero Mechs get you a 30% Cbill Bost

Hero Mechs should not let you have an outright superior robot.
It's not an old thing. Muromets was among the best Phract for a time, the glory of the DakkaGeddon eventually outshone by the Poptarts


Poptarts, of which the Dragon Slayer reined, beside the likes of the HGN733c, and the 3D
Cbill contenders, which were okay

There were plenty of Bad heroes, as well, but this thread isn't about that. It might even help them in the future (by not needing to keep them weak)


With previous Clam Hero wave, the Cute Fox got some nice pods
Double the amount of E hardpoints
All High mounted.
It is an outrageous improvement over the typical Cute Fox, but you do sacrifice quirks
But, it's only a Cute Fox, why do we care?
Because it sets precedent.



Cue Clam Hero Wave II, and we get multiple robots with outright improvements.
MOAR GUNs in the same pods
New Guns where no guns used to be

Myth Lynx is going from a joke, to a Light with typical Light mech firepower
Ice Fridge is getting his Jesus Box at no sacrifice (1 DHS, down to 15, and ST ECM)
SadCat ST missile doubled (I mean, Meh, but still outright improvement for $$)
Mr Gargles, torso mounted weaponry is a $$ exclusive feature


I don't like that
I don't like that one bit. Mostly because I don't plan on giving PGI any money because of decisions like these, so my robots are now inferior by design



It doesn't have to be that way.
Give Premium Chassis' a Cbill alternative. Keep them delayed, if you must (like the usual GrabDeals), but release the Chassis for Cbills, without the bonuses

Buy the Grabdeals for MC if you want the Cbill boost
Grab them for $$ if you want them early

But if you wait, let us buy them for Cbills
As a result, Premium Chassis's don't necessarily have to be as weak as some tend to be, they can risk being viable more often.

I'm supportive of releasing CBill variants of the Hero mechs without the pattern, colors, CBill boost, etc that comes with the Hero. I think the limitation of pods being locked behind Hero variants, and in extension having Battlemech variants locked behind Hero paywalls, is bad for the game as a whole.

[Carl Vickers]

Yeonne Greene, on 04 April 2017 - 08:12 PM, said:

Been a long time since I've done any FP (not that I've dropped at all recently), is dakka even prominent there? I would expect the focus to be on PPCs and lasers, which are much easier to make agile, even dependent upon that agility.

FP is more about brawl/mid range poke. Poptarting with gauss and peeps does happen but is easily defeated by a good push.

Ballistics used to be used a lot before the big nerf, I still use it a bit but nowhere near as much, comes down to good old faithful lazor vomit for reliable performance atm. Big shame but such is the meta shift when PGI balances for potato.

Edited by Carl Vickers, 04 April 2017 - 08:20 PM.

[Snazzy Dragon]

It's clear that PGI doesn't care

They are selling premium power creep and hurting balance between both IS vs Clan and whales vs free to play players and cheapskates and I'm inclined to believe their "balance" passes have been purposely leading to this point

That's awfully pessimistic and spiteful of me to say, but I don't see any other reasonable explanation at this point. And if they had intended to release p2w omnipods for c bills or even mc, it would have happened already, in the first set of complaints about this very thing

[TheArisen]

Perhaps the pods could be on sale for Cbills but only those that buy the hero get the Cbill bonus? Maybe throw in a XP boost to compensate?

[Valhallan]

meh we're all just waiting for 80mrm 140RL archer anyway

[Appogee]

PGI did a commendable job holding the line on P2W.

It was a real shame to see them start to abandon their principles on P2W Heroes last year.

With these new Heroes, the P2W flood gates are almost fully open.

Yes, they're a business. But the reason they seem increasingly desperate for cash is because of poor balancing and design decisions. Additional poor design decisions like blatant P2W pods could make the playerbase even smaller... a short-term business strategy at best.

Edited by Appogee, 04 April 2017 - 11:25 PM.

[Poptimus Rhyme Wallace]

I noticed this trend a while ago, stopped paying $ for things because of it.

I happily spent 0ver 1000$ until this trend started, have barely spend 20$ in 3 years now...

GG pgi... GG.... if you think I will pay any $ for MW5 you must be delusional, thank god for torrents ^^

Edited by Poptimus Rhyme Wallace, 04 April 2017 - 11:34 PM.