202 replies to this topic

[Eddie Money]

Xaat Xuun, on 12 April 2017 - 02:05 PM, said:

sounds great . . but .. you may find yourself pushing alone, unless you find a like-minded unit to play with

I mean it doesn't have to be all push all the time. Sitting back and playing patiently is an important part of playing any Tank, Warship, or indeed Mech. The battleships I tend to drive in World of Warships require more patience and planning than any of the other vessel sizes. I don't mind kicking it back for a while, trading blows.

So, the Marauder IIC sounds like it gets very survivable in practice and seems like a solid fit. Are there any other opinions on it?

[Flak Kannon]

Eddie Money, on 11 April 2017 - 08:03 PM, said:

If that's the case, then, and a second line support Mech as I envision it does not exist, it's better for me to gravitate towards the general style I default to, which is a brawling style. I use mostly Heavy tanks in WoT and Battleships in WoWS, so a tougher brawler would be what I work with most often in similar-ish games.

Taking fire in MWO is different from taking fire in WoT, but I can learn to work with that.

Hi Again EM.

Ok,

Based on what you said above, I think I have a different opinion. I'd now recommend the Storm Crow, or even the Mad Dog... or Even the Inner Sphere Hunchbacks with AC20s. G & H .. third can be the SP.. or.. the full laser boat your call.

Brawling is actually my style of play in this game, but I've found it to a style that needs ALOT of fore thought about your injection into battle. When, and where, and to what target. I brawl best with a mech that has jump jets and SRM missle racks of 6 times ?? 3 or 4. Griffin and Wolverine are really good brawling mechs. But are worthless if you can not take advantage of jump brawling. Then there is the InnerSphere Crab, great hit boxes, good laser boat, fast enough to shoot and scoot.

And lastly... the Nova.. a GREAT brawler in a patient pilots hands, a death trap in an over zealous pilots hands...Can wreck the day of any mech on the field if it can manage its heat. 8 SPL 4 Machine guns is wicked. But you must be patient.


Now.. if your more of the Walk them down brawler type... well... nothing beats the Atlas for that. That was my second set of mechs I bough way back in 2012. I still love them. They require communication and team work to be effective tho.. so get on Comms or don't bother.

Hit me up a friend request if you like and we can chat in game and you can bounce ideas off me. Peak play times for me are 9:00am -12:00 noon MST.


Enjoi

[Eddie Money]

I think you may have a different look at brawlers (or outlook on them, rather) than I do. You listed the Stormcrow and Nova, which, to my understanding, aren't terribly armored.
When I hear or read "brawler" as it pertains to a game like this, I think of something big, heavily armored and heavily armed. If it were a person, it'd be a strongman competition champion.

But this means that Brawling as it pertains to MWO is something that is different from how I think of it. What specifically is meant when one says a "brawler" mech?

[Flak Kannon]

Eddie Money, on 12 April 2017 - 03:04 PM, said:

I think you may have a different look at brawlers (or outlook on them, rather) than I do. You listed the Stormcrow and Nova, which, to my understanding, aren't terribly armored.
When I hear or read "brawler" as it pertains to a game like this, I think of something big, heavily armored and heavily armed. If it were a person, it'd be a strongman competition champion.

But this means that Brawling as it pertains to MWO is something that is different from how I think of it. What specifically is meant when one says a "brawler" mech?

Brawling means dropping a lot of damage 'in close'. To do that you need hard points, plentiful hard points. Or a very massive weapon, i.e.. the Inner Sphere Ac20.

SRM6 x 3,4, or5 drops A TON of close in damage. 8 SPL drop a ton of damage. See.. heat is an issue with brawling. Not too much heat, but enough heat ( i.e. weapons ) that your a serious threat to any single mech in front of you when you unleash all your firepower...

But what you'll notice is that I favor mobility over armor.

I have dropped 10,000 plus times. I know that a slow heavily armored brawler does not provide the protection that a fast medium armored mech with mobility does. It is just the nature of this game. Direwolves are usually death traps at Tier 1 play. Not always, but they are soo slow..


But.. if you want that frontline mech with 100 armor on front center torso, then you might want to look at the Mad IIC, or similar. That is a semi mobile mech, with great hit boxes, and wonderful firepower. Again.. Atlas is King Brawler, but only if you use Comms.

But trust me, you will want to try all types of brawlers to define what you like best in a brawler.

I personally get rather frustrated in a mech that tops out at 55-65kph but has a massive ALPHA FIRE potential, that I'm only able to get one or two shots off before I'm dropped because i am the front tip of the spear and all fire is focused on me.


That the basis of my point of view. Brawling is lasting the longest, in front of one enemy and winning in close. I find Jump Jets give a decided advantage in Brawling. Heck, I have a Quickdraw with maybe two (2) SRM4's, 1 Large Laser, 3 Medium lasers that can jump around, above, behind a assault and win most of the time one on one.. Why? It comes down mobility and 'heat neutrality'. They unload 2 alphas toward me and hit the heat threshhold, while I continue to DPS, I can get away to cooloff and come in from unorthodox angles of attack. I take a lot fire in the legs as I jump, the assault I'm targeting gets 'all' my fire into its center mass... It wastes heat on my legs which doesn't kill me...all the while I maintain DPS and jump, twist, move,scoot, and kill that EXE, Or Dire, Or Zeus, or what have. And that was a brawl at 100 meters or in closer I described.

All I'm saying is mobility, for MY personal playstyle trumps armor by a large margin. Not everyone likes Jump Jets, I do.

Things that scare me? Summoners that Jump with SRM6x6. Kodiaks with uac10x2 uac5x2, LBX40 mechs.


Enjoi

Edited by Flak Kannon, 12 April 2017 - 03:43 PM.

[Eddie Money]

Ohhh, I see how you mean it now, thank you very much for explaining what you meant. In that case, which Mad IIC models are recommended?

Edited by Eddie Money, 12 April 2017 - 03:47 PM.

[Flak Kannon]

D is the best. C is second best.

There is an ALL energy option chassis, which if played correctly is amazing, but I wouldn't call that one a Brawler.

The C is your Best Brawler option probably, but D gives you ECM which is quite amazing.


Enjoi

Edited by Flak Kannon, 12 April 2017 - 03:55 PM.

[Eddie Money]

What sort of build would I be looking to stick on a MAD-IIC-C? PPC/AC10?

Or something meta (at least what I THINK meta is...) like Dual Gauss/Dual PPC? Or something different entirely?

I'm also still considering an Atlas.

Edited by Eddie Money, 12 April 2017 - 04:54 PM.

[chucklesMuch]

Eddie Money, on 12 April 2017 - 03:42 PM, said:

Ohhh, I see how you mean it now, thank you very much for explaining what you meant. In that case, which Mad IIC models are recommended?

All but the 8 and B variants

Mad iic = laser boat (don't have yet but will pick up, 9xmpl or 2xlpl & 5-7ermls is the plan)
Mad iic A 'one trick pony' 3xuac5 & 2xerppc... highly effective.
Mad iic C not sure what I like best on this one - but has JJ's (2×uac10 & 2xerppc/2xlpl works okay, 2x gauss 5xerml works okay, 2xlpl, 2uac5 & 3xerml works okay)
Mad iic D don't have but ecm 2x guass 2x erll would work too
Mad iic SC - 4xsrm4a with 2xlbx10 low heat, or switch/swap for 4xsrm6A or 2xlbx20.... all combos cam be fun. Very good brawler

[Eddie Money]

Well then, is the Marauder IIC what I should get? Or should I invest in something like an Atlas?

Or are there other suggestions for beefy brawlers I should know of (aside from the Kodiak - out of my price range as it stands)?

Alternatively, the idea of a fast, but less armored brawler (or Heavies I'm overlooking) is also interesting to me. There's so many mechs, so few C-Bills...

Edited by Eddie Money, 12 April 2017 - 08:18 PM.

[JigglyMoobs]

If you want a cheap and fast brawler get a medium like a hunchback iic.

If you want a heavy brawler the marauder iic is pretty good.

The way you survive in this game is:

1. Positioning
2. Maneuverability
3. Armor

Strictly in that order. Good assault pilots use experience to implement superior positioning, which compensates for the loss of maneuverability in conjunction with the armor.

If you are inexperienced, you will lose on positioning. better to emphasize maneuverability over armor.

[Old-dirty B]

JigglyMoobs, on 13 April 2017 - 01:23 AM, said:

If you are inexperienced, you will lose on positioning. better to emphasize maneuverability over armor.

This.

If you go to heavy/slow and basically spend your money unwise you will soon find yourself standing in the back lurming because you cant keep up and you have no other options to contribute. Positioning and movement are key, you need to learn that first...

[Rogue Jedi]

if you are after medium/heavy brawlers look for something with good hitboxes moving at least 75kph with SRMs or big autocannons, brawling with lasers can work but usualy you want to be able to keep shooting and if you pack a lot of lasers you may have heat issues

for Clan look at the Hunchback IIC, Huntsman, Stormcrow, Mad Dog (with SRMs) Timber Wolf.

the Inner Sphere tends to be better for brawlers due to single shot ACs, tighter SRM grouping and shorter laser burn time, as well as Mechs benefiting from armor/structure quirks, good ones include Hunchback, Centurian, Crab, Griffin, Thunderbolt, Catapult, Jagermech, Warhammer, Marauder

[JC Daxion]

Well, now you are talking more than just basic first mechs.. and hey a sweet so called Second line support assault.. did anyone mention stalkers? I know they are not the always seen, best top meta now, but man are they solid mechs.

They are sorta front line/second line medium/long range mechs for the most part.

Builds like the 5M, with 4 ML's 4 LRM10's and a narc for missile fun, Or swap over to SRM's for major short range punch. (the second is harder to play, the first should work very well in pugs) Stick with your bralwers, and narc their target, and then loob countless LRM10's vollies till they are dead, it causes much rage


Stalker 3F, Or 4H, Boat up large lasers, or even a pair of PPC's with lasers or misiles. the 3F has great twist, and the 4H has nice bonuses and hard point locations. A perfect 400-700m range mech.


I'll just add the misery, even if it is a hero, because rule of 3, and the stalker pack is actually quite solid for a new player jumping in. They are assaults, so a little expensive and take a while to grind, so gives you a nice jump on c-bills. Not sure on all the mechs in the pack, i just know its a solid pack.

So misery, is a great mech, AC-20 and large pulse lasers is a lot of fun. This mech wrecks things, an other build is 2LL's+ac-20+2MPL's. Its more of a mixed pug build.. works well at mid-longerish ranges with a couple of lasers, and when you get close you just pour on damage with the ac-20 and added 2MPL's.

[Kaethir]

Some folks have suggested avoiding the Timber Wolf due to the fact that it was long OP and is often focus-fired first.

It was effectively the first mech I took, and still one of my favorites.

If you can deal with the fact that you will be a target and also not the best at anything in particular, you will not be disappointed with this mech. It may not be the best at any of them (in fact, you can probably pick out a better chassis for any given one), but you can build almost any archetype on it and do reasonably well. It's also reasonably maneuverable (excellent for its weight) and reasonably well-armored.

Laser vomit? good.
sniper? good.
dakka? ok but subpar.
hybrid... anything (lrms/brawling/mid-range/etc)? good.
brawler? good.
poptart? good.

that being said... play the trial mechs a bunch and see what you like.

[Koniving]

Eddie Money, on 12 April 2017 - 12:29 PM, said:

Are you sure about the IIC being a while? I read somewhere that April 4th was the date for it (I haven't checked myself because I'm new and had no reason to).

Just to clarify, does that mean the Marauder IIC ends up being the most survivable provided you torso twist properly?

Actually, because of the elongated shape of the Marauder IIC, it's better that you don't torso twist much (just 25 degree twists are more than plenty).

(This doesn't show the side as well as I would like, so gonna use the Marauder to show that.


Anyway, as I said it has Stalker syndrome.

By that I mean it has HUGE side torsos. Provided you run a STD or upcoming Light engine on a Stalker/Marauder, or STD / Clan XL engine on a Marauder IIC (as it is Clan)... you can survive lots of damage after losing a side torso because that side torso acts as a shield, reducing all incoming damage that hits it by 60% before it goes to your center torso. Someone hit you with two AC/20s? 40 damage becomes 16 damage. Someone hit you with a 70 damage barrage of laser vomit? 70 becomes 28.

This is true of all mechs, but because of the gigantic side torsos (which makes using an IS XL engine suicide and the Stalker trial horribly fragile), you will practically be godlike in damage absorption.

I dunno if Marauder IICs are out yet. They probably are. I'm likely to just throw a 20 to get three of them at some point (but you can do the same to collect 3 Kodiaks). Beats spending the cbills because when you have 236 mechs, having cbills to modify and toy with them is pretty hard since it spends fast.

Far as whether to go assault or tough heavy, the big difference is that a tough heavy probably has the speed to pull out of a **** storm. An assault either needs to be able to tank its way through a **** storm or do all the damage it can on its way out.

As an assault you will add a new set of phrases to your vocabulary:

From the short question short answer thread, the very first response (where I gave a huge FAQ)...from under Definitions within the spoiler...

Koniving, on 02 October 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

"To Commit" is a term that refers to engaging in a fight you cannot pull away from. With a single life this is important because once you commit that's it. Either you win or you die as the situation is impossible to escape from. Examples of usage: "Are we going to commit?" "Are you sure about this? We can't win. (response) It's too late we're committed." "I've got hostiles here. (Roger that, rendezvous with us and lure 'em.) No can do, I'm committed."

"Going down" is the guaranteed losing form of "to commit." With enough experience you will know right away when there is nothing you can do and so reporting (on voice) that you are going down lets your comrades know that you cannot be rescued and that any attempt to do so will result in a Black Hawk Down scenario.

Those will especially be true in Faction and Group play.

[Jingseng]

They (Mad IIc) are out for cbills.

Personally, I like almost all of them:

'Prime' - 9 energy hardpoints. Good for a variety of range configurations, especially 'all range'.
A - upgraded Mad 3r. Ballistic/Energy mix. Flavor to taste.
B - The 'what do I do with this variant' variant. 5 energy, 2 missile. No high mounts. But it can jump?
C - Jumping version of A. Has an extra energy hard point too.
D - ECM equipped "less is more" version. Hard points pretty much where you'd want them, it's a bit slower than the others, but sneakier for delivering a donkey punch.
8 - The "Lawl it has 1 missile hardpoint" variant. 7 energy hardpoints, asymmetric layout.
SC - Hero mech, The "AHHAHAHAHAHAHA SRMS" Variant. (MC/$ only)

I would suggest the Base/prime or else the A var if you are still new and getting the hang of different weapons and tactics (which, if you dislike srms, is probably the case). The C has better mobility, but requires better knowledge of building and weapon systems to use effectively. The D is good. And you'll eventually want to graduate to the SC.

"cost" effectively, you'd buy (gasp) the standard package for the Prime, the A and the B (lawls)... buy the D and/or C with cbills. Eventually, you can add on the SC (but also for cash).

Otherwise, Cbills straight through... But you'll be saving MC from events and caches literally forever to get the SC, or else potentially spending more to get it by buying MC and spending MC (or waiting for a sale/planetary alignment).

Whichever route you choose, keep in mind - customizing (you will want to) is expensive. What Kon said is absolutely the case. You may have picked up a shiny new mech for $c6-12m... but that's stock. Which will be more useable or less useable depending. But usually less.

Mechlab with trials might not show you the costs involved:

Standard -> Double Efficiency(not really) Heatsinks - $c1.5m (this will be damn near mandatory for any mech that doesn't have it)

Standard Internal -> Endo Steel - $c 10k/ton of mech (for a marauder IIc, that is $c 850k) (frequently A Good Idea as it cuts out a lot of dead weight that can then be spent on a better engine, ammo, heat sinks, etc.)

Standard Armor -> Ferro Fibrous - Not Worth It (frequently Not Such A Great Idea as it uses up the same space as Endo, but will almost always provide less weight benefit... at best, the same)

cER PPC - $c 600k ea.
cLrg Pulse Laser - $c 350k ea.
c Ultra AC-5 - $c 400k ea.
c Ultra AC-10 $c 640k ea.

And finally, let's talk about the thing that is "actually" expensive: the engine.

c XL300 - $c 4.9m
c XL400 - $c 6.5m

Prices will range in between.

Prices for IS gear is cheaper (except for DHS, Ferro, Endo - same cost), but not enough to make your head spin.

In nearly every case, you'll see that there are ways to better optimize your shiny new, stock mech to perform better - more armor, more speed (which will also let you turn and aim torso mounted weapons better... for now)(although frankly, more speed is always going to be good, for keeping you alive =p), more heat dissipation, more ammo, more weapons. And while you can sell some of the gear you remove to offset costs, you wont get much back... and chances are, you'll be buying it again later on for another mech or another loadout.

So, when going the cbill route, keep that in mind. Don't just blow all your cbill on the most expensive mech you can buy... that isn't actually the most expensive mech you can afford.

[Eddie Money]

Okay, so something less expensive than a Clan mech is gonna be good for me, then. If mobility is much more important than armor for the sake of surviving, then I should probably avoid the plodding Assaults and thicker-set Heavies for now and focus on something I can worry about moving about in to survive, but taking a hit would still be nice every now and then.

Bearing that in mind, what am I looking for? I feel like every info dump I'm getting is changing what I want more.

[Koniving]

Ideally, go for something with a standard engine on the IS side for a cheap start. Just remember to put in double heatsinks if it lacks.

Since you liked the idea of the Marauder IIC, why not try the much cheaper heavy known as the Marauder?

[Eddie Money]

Is that going to have mobility? This thread has successfully spooked me away from piloting things that are slow.

[Rogue Jedi]

Eddie Money, on 13 April 2017 - 09:25 AM, said:

Is that going to have mobility? This thread has successfully spooked me away from piloting things that are slow.

the IS Marauder can do up-to about 84kph with speed tweak, depending on what engine you put in.
with the stock 300 engine and without the elite skills they move 64.8 I usualy use them with a standard 350 (75.6/81/3), but they can work fine with a 325, or even an XL although that looses some durability, also most of the (IS) Marauders can mount Jumpjets, I consider the Marauder to be pretty mobile for a Heavy Mech, it is not far off the mobility of e.g. the Hunchback but is MUCH more suvivable.
for a close range brawling loadout something like this will work, my prefered loadout for the Marauder is more of a mid range support build with 4 Large Lasers (firing 2 at a time, if firing all 4 I get a heat penalty)