147 replies to this topic

[K O Z A K]

Alkabides, on 17 December 2017 - 04:48 PM, said:

I've really been enjoying the urban mech so picked up an assasin today since on sale. Seems similar type mech but with ECM... sounds fun. Well, it's fun as hell. 2 solo kills and 700+ damage my first match. It's going to get a lot of use tonight after kid time bath time. X3 ml x2 mrm10.... prob switch to x2 srm6 later. Keep xl engine?

Get the ASN21, 4xArtemis SRM4s, with XL, it's one of the safest IS XL mechs in the game, put at least 1JJ in. Play it like a light, try to never stop moving, and make sure to torso twist a lot and jumpjet while getting hit, a lot of the damage won't register and will mostly go to the shield arms, if you're losing leg armour GTFO. Most drops you will run out of ammo before you die

[Ted Wayz]

XtremeAlex, on 17 December 2017 - 05:40 AM, said:

At this point i think everyone in this game knows that the Assassin has a clear and well known hit reg issue: it simply does not register the damage correctly: it may be the walking animation that makes it hop constantly.
Try to compare a cicada and an assassin: the assassin has basically the same survival of 3 cicadas and this is clearly wrong.

The assassin hit reg must get fixed, as it is actually braking the game.

Sort of like a certain clan light...nicknamed the cheater.

If it is a hit reg issue it will never get fixed. Too much effort.

[ANOM O MECH]

Tarogato, on 17 December 2017 - 07:34 AM, said:

1% was not my assertion.

But since you asked... you got me curious. The closest I could possibly come is looking at how many people are on the FP leaderboard who have more KMDD than me. I'm around rank 2,000 and I self-identify as "avoid FP at all costs." So probably around 2,000 active players? Super rough, obviously, because we're sorting by KMDD instead of match played, but the FP leaderboard only allows us to sort by KMDD, so it's literally our only option.

Now, the current season of the FP leaderboard has been active since July 2017? So we can just compare that to how many players have been "active" in QP since then. Which seems to be about ~45,000. FP would then comprise ~4% of active players.

Again, it's a really really shjtty approximation, but it's about the best we can do.

Another thing that completely borks this as what happens to those leaderboards when you switch from being a merc to loyalist and back again. A good deal of the pilots that are active in CW, especially in the last year and a half, have bounced all over. Found my main account around 900 with 236 matches. That number is maybe reflective of my time as a loyalist if that. I checked a friend of mine from HHoD who has remained a loyalist the entire period and he is at 757 matches played. I know that I play CW a lot more than he does, especially in the last year or so.

So I am very much inclined to completely disregard these particular guesstimates because I don't know how much that could possibly throw off the results but I am thinking it is likely quite a bit.

[Maker L106]

Likely two fold issue, someones lagging and the missile pods + Assassins very janky animations when landing from JJ's. Video posted on the previous page.

[ANOM O MECH]

FupDup, on 17 December 2017 - 12:59 PM, said:

Does anyone have video evidence of this? Over the years pretty much every single skinny fast humanoid mech has been accused of having broken hitboxes. Spider, Commando, Firestarter, Panther, Wolfhound, Cheetah, Javelin, Mist Lynx (yes I'm serious I've seen people call the MLX's hitboxes broken), Stormcrow, now the Assassin...notice the pattern at all?

Even with my extreme unending cynicism of PGI's development, not even I believe that PGI could screw up hitboxes on so many mechs over such a long time period.



I'm pretty doubtful of that claim.

40-ton robots have up to 274 max armor without quirks. The Assassin's armor quirks bring this up to 323 (+49 armor spread across the whole body).

A quirkless 85-ton robot has 526 max armor.

Oh ye of little faith... BELIEVE.

As PGI could absolutely and without doubt, could screw up so much for so long. It is actually what they are best at.

[LT. HARDCASE]

Spheroid, on 17 December 2017 - 01:52 PM, said:

@FupDup: No its true. Armor is typically twice structure which puts a Warhawk at 72 leg armor. The Assassin is (base value +8 quirk) x 1.5 from the armor hardening. I wasn't joking when I said it had assault level armor.

Um, are you thinking the +17 is added to the 53, when actually it's already a part of it?

Either way, all you've done is prove that you're way off base in claiming "assault level" leg armor. An unquirked and unskilled 55 ton mech has 52 leg armor, while the fully quirked/skilled ASN has 58. With full armor skills, the 55t mech has 60.

Edited by LT. HARDCASE, 17 December 2017 - 05:58 PM.

[Revis Volek]

Tarogato, on 17 December 2017 - 06:49 AM, said:

For that 1% of people, FP constitutes nearly 100% of their MWO experience.

and for the rest of us QP is 100%


i fail to see what point this is making? Playing bad mode means? what?

[ANOM O MECH]

JackalBeast, on 17 December 2017 - 02:47 PM, said:

This thread is riddled with abject denial it's hilarious.
It has both, broken hitbox dmg reg and insane armor.
ACW which is supposed to fulfill a similar, fast striker, just gets shredded compared to the Assassin.
I've done well (and terrible) in the Attic Wolf, because where the Assassin is made of tungsten steel, it is made of glass.
Love my Assassins, but they are unbalanced.

No, the thread is absent any sort of proof.

There could be a problem but until it can be shown it is just a guess. Even if you can say that there is enough anecdotal evidence and experience to almost to a certainty back up your assertions, we really need to get the footage or screen shots to prove it. This makes a difference and possibly a big one, when or if the issues are addressed. Does the quirks need to be removed or is it a matter of fixing animations. Remember you are dealing with PGI and I don't think anyone wants what has been done to the Night Gyr or Kodiak to happen to any other mech. Sick of stuff being made into absolute garbage....

So we can't just go on anecdotal evidence. Funny you bring up The Wolf, as I actually do a lot better in my poptarting, ecm Wolfieboy... I don't for one minute thing that the Arctic Wolf is better based on my experience. I can't really tell you why I like it as much as I do and am sort of meh, to the Assassin.

[ANOM O MECH]

Maker L106, on 17 December 2017 - 05:26 PM, said:

As promised https://youtu.be/ArN3E7vezOU

Only anomaly we found was the missile pods. Cut live from our testing.

That and the assassin has VERY janky animation when landing from JJ's

Thank you for taking the time and posting.

The one time you hit back by running laser up the back...I think it reg'd in the front CT when you got up to the head not where you guessed the second time.

Oh and for tests like this use is reg small and stand at 220m and you will have much more time to shoot.

[TKG]

Armored Yokai, on 17 December 2017 - 04:34 PM, said:

My only problem with the assassin is that pgi picked this mech instead of the Clint.

The assassin is incredibly easy to beat and not that good, 90% of assassin players hide and look for targets caught out and start moving in behind the tean while they focus on the bigger targets,

Ok, firstly, the clint is nothing more than a low-budget centurion it's job is already done by other mechs. Second, you do realize that the role you just described the assassin doing is give or take what it was actually designed for. If you don't believe me, get a copy of a battletech TRO (3025 OR 3050) and read it's entry. Hell it's name even suggests that it's a mech designed for opportunistic pilots to pick off enemy who are over exposed. Don't bash a mech if it's doing what it's designed for.

[Maker L106]

tker 669, on 17 December 2017 - 06:26 PM, said:

Thank you for taking the time and posting.

The one time you hit back by running laser up the back...I think it reg'd in the front CT when you got up to the head not where you guessed the second time.

Oh and for tests like this use is reg small and stand at 220m and you will have much more time to shoot.

I should have left that in, we managed to confirm that most of the front hits like the nub on the arm in the beginning are just that, aiming issues. Regular small at 220... i didn't even think of doing the test outside of typical ranges. *Facepalm* but yeah this is actually how I'm used to correlating data in typical games I'm used to. Absolutely no sweat on me what so ever. Done this countless times to prove / disprove things in other games, Dark Souls, CoD, etc:

[Edit:] later thoughts, I still have the 2.8 gig full test video but that's a bit steep on my data to upload. Suffice to say that the assassin has some issues but they aren't actually positives.

Edited by Maker L106, 17 December 2017 - 08:01 PM.

[Kubernetes]

I don't know if it's bugged, but it is certainly god-tier right now. It's scarier than the Oxide ever was.

[InspectorG]

SFC174, on 17 December 2017 - 11:22 AM, said:

Well I just bought an assassin on sale, so rest assured it will be nerfed/corrected soon. You're welcome.

I will also contribute to that *occurrence*.

[ANOM O MECH]

Kubernetes, on 17 December 2017 - 07:36 PM, said:

I don't know if it's bugged, but it is certainly god-tier right now. It's scarier than the Oxide ever was.

BOOOOO

I ate Kodiaks at their mostest opness in my Oxide and shot to tier one that way (probably too soon but....).

Let's just call it a different era m'kay? Cause the glory that was twelve man Oxide rushes in good ol' fashioned FP has a special place in this game's history and die clanner, as Tanner (blessed be his name, Praise Tanner) would say.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

90% of hitreg accusations are caused by a combo of narrow hitboxes and people forgetting that when an arm is shot off, the arm stump still soaks most damage.

[FireStoat]

I don't have a dog in this fight as I rarely play the game anymore. I am willing to state the painfully obvious as a clan pilot on this topic however. If I have an Uziel on the ground under my crosshairs, it's in for a really sour time. My speed and the target's speed won't matter for this - I point, I shoot, the damage is scored.

If my target is an Asssassin that is jinking with jump jets it is a completely different story. For Assassin pilots feeling sensitive that this has been called out by players such as B33f, Bear Cl4w, and Molten Metal, I'd just like to say I wouldn't sweat it. PGI is incapable of correcting the code issues that are present with the hit boxes for the Assassin the moment it is 2 inches off the ground with a jump jet tap. It will remain bugged until the servers are shut down - bank on it.

[ANOM O MECH]

FireStoat, on 17 December 2017 - 11:42 PM, said:

I don't have a dog in this fight as I rarely play the game anymore. I am willing to state the painfully obvious as a clan pilot on this topic however. If I have an Uziel on the ground under my crosshairs, it's in for a really sour time. My speed and the target's speed won't matter for this - I point, I shoot, the damage is scored.

If my target is an Asssassin that is jinking with jump jets it is a completely different story. For Assassin pilots feeling sensitive that this has been called out by players such as B33f, Bear Cl4w, and Molten Metal, I'd just like to say I wouldn't sweat it. PGI is incapable of correcting the code issues that are present with the hit boxes for the Assassin the moment it is 2 inches off the ground with a jump jet tap. It will remain bugged until the servers are shut down - bank on it.

Sweet?

[Jackal Noble]

Maker L106, on 17 December 2017 - 06:47 PM, said:

I should have left that in, we managed to confirm that most of the front hits like the nub on the arm in the beginning are just that, aiming issues. Regular small at 220... i didn't even think of doing the test outside of typical ranges. *Facepalm* but yeah this is actually how I'm used to correlating data in typical games I'm used to. Absolutely no sweat on me what so ever. Done this countless times to prove / disprove things in other games, Dark Souls, CoD, etc:

[Edit:] later thoughts, I still have the 2.8 gig full test video but that's a bit steep on my data to upload. Suffice to say that the assassin has some issues but they aren't actually positives.

Except, you're not disproving anything. If anything it is proving what a lot of posters have indicated. It's known that the Assassin has some beneficial hitbox magic. All you posted is an incomplete assessment that shows the back armor testing.
On that and why that particular does illustrate how the Assassin's hitbox is benefical/broken;

• When the missile hitbox is hit from the back, the front recieves damage, which is also inherently far more heavily armored, thus allowing for the Assassin to take shots to the back that would normally cripple a similar mech of similar weights become cripple very quickly.

If you are serious about the proof being in the pudding, use a small pulse/small laser as was mentioned and do a more complete test. Otherwise thanks for taking the time to check it out and try something, but the fact remains that that assessment is incomplete.

Edited by JackalBeast, 18 December 2017 - 12:15 AM.

[Dee Eight]

Pariah Devalis, on 17 December 2017 - 06:57 AM, said:

I don't know that it is bugged, so much as it has a couple things working in tandem with it.

• Being narrow, it compresses the torso hitboxes, meaning it automatically is prone to spreading damage across multiple parts.
  
• Because it is narrow, leading an Assassin mucks up convergence so much it creates even greater spread of damage against the mech.
  
• The arms do a good job of protecting those side torsos from side on hits.
  
• The walk animation causes quite a bit of torso drop with each step, resulting in unpredictable hits to either arm or torso, based on where the server thinks the arm/torso is at that fraction of a second.
  
• It moves very quickly, which both increases necessary lead (and thus borking convergence more), as well as faster cycles of torso drop (increasing damage spread further).

That said, if people would aim for its legs instead of its torsos, you'd find them a heck of a lot less of an issue. It consistently astounds me how deadset people are at torso shooting the Assassin (or most light mechs), when they have got to realize by now that legging it is easier, and once it is legged it is as good as dead. Even calling it out in VoiP gets only about 50% response from teammates regarding it.

Same sort of people who think legging the assaults instead is better than aiming where the weapons are... legs generally have at least as much HP as the side torsos, and better still the armor isn't split between front and rear areas.

[Vellron2005]

I don't know about you guys, but I do know that for me, an Assassin is the most annoying mech in the game right now, seconded only by the Stealth Locust and Stealth Commando.

And I personally consider a 12-man Assassin rush to be the cream cheese of FP play styles, seconded only by a 12-man Linebacker rush.

I do play an Assassin occasionally, but it's not very effective for me, probably cose' i don't play SRMs..